the proxy union

Vick Blood buries now. Its gross.

Freikorp Engineers, making constructs arm +2 with triggers since 2017. but seriously, medical automaton looks promising with the place ability...

I'd like to change my vote to roller derby Vicks box.

you really just need the two kings and 2 catchers from the brotherhood of the rat box. I think I have hired one rat catcher to start with... once... maybe twice? they will generally just get summoned as the turn progresses. so none on hand and 1-2 of each being summoned in game.

Female VonShill or female (miss model )Bishop so I can turn him into a sister with the new upgrade and not feel odd about it.

2 winged plagues and 1 rat catcher. rat catcher uses moldy cheese to reactivate the 2 winged plagues(vermin) they get up and in there turn one. possibly dropping markers. season the rest to taste. -proxy

1-killjoy is defense 4. if your opponent throws either something like howard, a combat master like lady j, or just uses 2-3 models to take it out turn 2. you get a free hit turn one; that we agree on. turn 2-5 they fight normally. Df4 means killjoy will bite the dust on turn 2 if they focus on him. the only question there is if you can get him to trade evenly or better. 2- schemes that score at the end of game give you more opportunity to get to them, and don't stop you from doing other things before eating markers. they are still good for it, but the schemes that involve markers are fewer and harder to do. since they are harder to accomplish, your opponent will be more likely to use the other schemes that you wont be able to stop. why choose a marker scheme if you can only get 1-2 points from it when murder protege or take prisoner will be more likely to net you 3? 3- never said useless. it's just that they feel underwhelming. spending ~6 points on wretch + rat for activation control is one thing; but cramming ~17 stones worth of models that either don't or won't finish off the threats that survive isn't something that I like putting into my lists. -Proxy

only if your opponent doesn't go after killjoy hard, and you win Initiative. if that is the case, you might get 2 swings out of it. rat kings are weaker in GG2016 due to the lightness of scheme marker scenarios, yes rat catchers and the rest are still great, but they are scheme runners that deliver a killjoy. they themselves are not exactly damage output machines. so once killjoy goes down, and he will go down(barring hard swings in variance), the other 17 ish points feel only average in the mid to late game. -proxy

As someone who plays the rat engine a lot, (also played against it a few times) I don't think it needs to be banned because the out-activation just isn't that strong after turn 3. also ratjoy in a non hamelin list will cost you 17 points plus killjoy for a grand total of 29-30 stones of your list for a single cruise missile. If your cards aren't good enough the first turn, (1-2 crows plus at least a few 9+'s to make the fat man hit) then your killjoy bomb fails, or only gets one thing. this doesn't take into account the fact that a decent ranged game can put enough pressure on the rats to slow you down a turn. also, killjoy is Df 4. you will hit him after he activates, and you will likely kill him if you commit 2-3 pieces to the job, honestly it's a lot like having a 10T player throw izamu at you with sensei: you know it's coming, it will hurt, and you cant kill it first. but you can deal with it if you don't panic. P.S. I am in full agreement with above posts that banning things is the wrong way to go about fixing the game. ratjoy is near the top end of the power curve but its not unbeatable. -proxy

huh... well that sucks. forgot he wasnt a merc.... oh well, guess its nimble =>regular focus=> Lurch smash.

so, I used monty a few nights ago with I Pay Better and the dark carnival terrain. when he has stuff to hide behind, or at least hard cover, he becomes able to focus(i pay better), nimble walk out, hit, cheat severe, and walk back. he got me a dead minion/enforcer each turn including the first because of nino and nimble walks. monty is a gurrella fighter thats crazy good at making head markers. -Proxy

needs me a game of bullet with cuddle guns

please do! I want to see the card!

I will second the Idea of a combo box or two singular box sets. I would pick those up, but not another hired guns.

can I kill something with a ronin and then push with the next target trigger to stand on a head marker and pick it up with the second ap? -Proxy

It's a good show of force upgrade. you get good movement utility out of it and you are much less likely to need to pop it for effect than oathkeeper. probably use 1-2 of them if I plan to go for the show of force scheme. -Proxy

I've seen similar threads in the other forums and thought: hey why not here? So as the title suggests, what are the rest of you doing differently for the new schemes? what have you found that works, what schemes are you avoiding, are you still going for the 10 VP finish, or is it more about denial now. In addition to the standard discussions, I would like to hear more of the outcast communities thoughts on the suited schemes (including 'Take Prisoner') as they will be showing up most often, and will therefore have a greater effect on our play stiles. For example, I think that the 'Leave Your Mark' scheme is going to be very hard to get more than 1-2 points out of; The reason being that unless your opponent is playing an elite crew, they will have ample opportunity to both remove scheme markers and simply move their minions within 4" of one or more markers. We could probably get the first point without trying but after the 'surprise' first point, the next one is going to be tough unless you start killing in droves with the vicks, or have great placement with the emissary. I also realize that we have some of the most... diversely specialized masters in the game, and that each of us play very different lists most of the time; even so, I would love to hear about how your results have been for any given master under the new schemes. Also, how has "Inspection", "Occupy Their Turf", and "Public Demonstration" been for the rest of you? Right now I think that Misaki is the only one that really likes the second two no that list, but I just don't know about "Inspection", although that might just be me. Other than that, I have a few random master related thoughts I'd like to leave you with: Since all of the new schemes are now tougher to get the 3VP on, Have your games started to focus more on denial than just "get to ten and try to deny one or two points along the way"? I ask because my thoughts on this are shifting more towards "deny the likely face down schemes, and after they flip them for the first point don't let them get the second." Given the above, does this make Jack Daw stronger in certain situations? He seems to be one of the most scheme dependent masters that I have ever attempted to play. If faced with multiple scheme marker based goals, then Greed seems like gold. same for Lust in 'turf war'/'show of strength' games. Before GG 2016 dropped, I was having trouble figuring him out. Even now I am not great with him, but I would like to be able to see him hit the table more over the coming months and I am hoping that GG 2016 helps because of the "denial" mindset that comes with playing him. (deep and meaningful thoughts would be nice. lol.) Is Hamelin the factions new go to guy on more of the "non killing" and interact dependent schemes? between the obey, and the activation control that he can get things into position and interact/deny areas/drop markers better than most. 'Take Prisoner" is also easier with him than with some others. Thoughts? Assuming that "Neutralize the Leader" DID NOT come up in your scheme pool, what Schemes does Leveticus Like to see? what are you hiring to do those schemes? What If anything has changed? Has anyone/Is anyone planning to play pubic demonstration/occupy their turf with Misaki? How did it go? Can they be accomplished reliably with another master? And finally, where does Tara fit in with the new scheme pool? I don't have any experience playing with her (only against), and I am a little confused as to when I would want to take her for a given scheme pool or even which ones she likes in general nowadays. I think that covers all my questions and thinly veiled conversation starters. so let me know what you think and where you disagree. -Proxy

I remember that being a really tense game all the way through. I probably should have gone after kang early. oh well, live and learn. Also, we should totally start youtube-ing our games; they are super intense when I'm not messing around with the C7 crew. -Proxy

waiting for an upgrade to give her swift. lol

I usually go with killjoy plus 10 point model to flavor. I've had the wretch knocked out in early and mid turns before. but as long as one of the beaters survives at least 4 turns, I am likely in good shape; The wretch is really just there to out activate the opponent. It does the job really well and if you can kill it the game becomes much more even, but the other models in the list end up doing more of the killing and scheming for me. Also, the OP was playing against Hamelin in Interference. thats like playing Ramos in Recon. Keeping strategy points there is rough when you are paying against Hamelin in a table quarters game. maybe try to out scheme them for points? Its a rough match but you can still win it. just not by huge margins. -Proxy

Hamelin lists usually have 2-2.5 beatsticks in the list. so focus on those 2.5 models and try to keep the rats mostly under control. blasts are somewhat useful, and condition removal is a good idea. -Proxy

remember that both of those are numbered schemes and show up much less frequently than you think. mark for death is fairly easy to play around and neutralize the leader is essentially 3 points for your opponent. neither of which is a death sentence for levi unless taken together. even then he can probably match points on both schemes and possibly come out ahead on mark for death if played right. the strategy is what will make up the deciding factor in games like your thinking. and play skill. always play skill. -Proxy

Normally I wouldn't chime in on this, but, I feel like I have to expand a bit on what has already been said. Hamelin is an absolute beast in interference. out activating your opponent and then obeying and or walking rats into their stuff to stop them from scoring wins the matchup most times against any non summoner list and even playing against other summoning masters, Hamelin can still pull off wins by volume alone. Reconnoiter is the one I really wanted to comment on. I have found that Von Shill is actually really good at it when fighting guild or ressers. guild has non-existent summoning, and ressers have to deal with stand and shoot taking out much of their list. on top of that, his core crew is really competant at stacking damage onto things at range. add in a convict gunslinger or two with rusty alyce and you basically set up a kill zone that slowly pushes forward to deny the last two to three strategy points and swings things back into your favor. however, I would probably switch to either the vicks or levi if i was up against arcanists, but thats just because armor is more prevalent in that faction. then again, there is something to be said about preference because I know I switch back to my comfort zone whenever I play against 10T or outcasts. -Proxy

darn... no summoning for jack then. thanks for the clarification. -Proxy

so this came up in a game tonight: Nicodem has a malifaux child as his totem. jack has tormented it. jack uses twist and turn to make the child take a (1) action controlled by him. If I choose to make the child use "just like you", which master does it copy? just like you: this action may be taken once per turn. take one of this crew's leaders Ca actions with a cost of 1 that does not list a model by name...(take action at -3 Ca, a plus flip, and no triggers) the child's crew's leader is nicodem but the action is controlled by jack. so can i summon zombies into jacks crew with this or am i dreaming? -proxy