What makes a good opponent?

[zFiend]

There was a thread about this on the Finnish forums revolving around the hobby and I thought it was a very good topic and a good reminder on how to act around the tables etc. 

So what makes a good opponent in your mind? Is there an example you'd like to share? A shout out to someone on the forums? 

My experience of a good opponent is they play open, give info when asked, let you take back if you make an obvious mistake you wouldn't have done really but due to some dumb stuff you made and won't exploit it. Plays fair and more so, is a good and pleasant person in general. Leaves the filth fest home unless given a heads up prior to game. 

Shout out to Pantser (Patzer) for being an amazing opponent in all the games I have played against him. Post-game chats with this guy are the absolute best! 

I would also like to give a big up yourself to Math. For being a great guy and my go to for strategic talk and planning for games. Even though our games grind to a halt on turn 2 usually and we rage on while playing after game talks makes up for the games and never do I regret coming over when we have a game planned. 

Also while playing on a very different level Myyrä is seriously an opponent if you want to learn more of the game. He plays like an absolute beast but he also always answers questions on what to do, what he would have done, what models to use etc. Neverending resource for malifaux tactics. 

[Dirial]

Good topic. I agree on your points.... fair play, openness, good loser and generous winner. I don't like it when someone curses about the cheese of the models, because I feel it belittles the opponent's own contribution to the win.

I play for fun exclusively. Bringing really strong lists can be fun but WAAC is a big turn-off for me. That's why I give tournaments a wide berth.

[Sordid Strumpet]

Good opponent? Someone I can have a laugh with. It's a hobby. If I don't get a laugh out of it what good is it?

I don't want to play someone who relies on gotchas to win the game (hence I avoid tournaments, even though Malifaux seems to attract a much better crowd than other games). 

As for being a good loser - I don't even remember how many points I got, let alone who won after most games... What I do remember is Ironsides rather spectacularly knocking someone's block off  

I like opponents that don't play so cagey that I can't do anything cool. Or that I have to concentrate really hard to get anything done, because then I get a headache. My job makes me concentrate enough, thank you very much. My hobby is for relaxing, hanging out with mates and having a few good laughs. 

And above all, with it's quirky and often hilarious abilities and combinations, Malifaux is perfect for setting up situations woth hilarious results. Like desperately trying to airburst Papa Loco (who is in fire) out of the middle of my crew before he goes boom.

[Breng77]

I agree win most of what was said, however I'd like to see people divorce this notion of "i don't like WAAC, gotachas, etc.  So I avoid tournaments."  That is a ridiculously small portion of any miniatures gaming event, especially in malifaux, and painting tournaments as such creates a stigma that passes down to newer players.  Tournament games have been some of my most fun games, I just finished playing at the NOVA open, and played 8 great games, against 8 super nice players and had tons of fun.  There is nothing wrong with saying, I don't enjoy pressure in my games so I avoid tourneys, or don't liked timed games etc.  But please don't paint those of us that go ams being unfun to play against.  For the record during the national championship, I was granted, and granted people take backs, reminded people of things they forgot to do, and my. In game Most memorable moment involved a a malifaux raptor, red jokering damage to take out Nino in my final game.  Outside the games my most memorable moment was when we had Cojo climb the Washington monument, because we are all silly nerds having a good time.

 

[bertmac]

I rarely don't enjoy whatever game i'm playing, I enjoy playing against competative people as well as laid back games. Recently me and my group had been practicing for tournament mode for over a month played the tournament then the next week me and jonahmaul flipped reckoning and just enjoyed throwing down cards and murdering each others crews. Raspy vs Levi ended up a 2-1 win to me but neither of us were particularly worried about the result.

One of our local players is a pretty bad winner and loser but I still enjoy taking him on as he plays so many different masters its nice to take on something different as I find the first time you face most masters they'll do something horrible.

[Dirial]

I agree win most of what was said, however I'd like to see people divorce this notion of "i don't like WAAC, gotachas, etc.  So I avoid tournaments."  That is a ridiculously small portion of any miniatures gaming event, especially in malifaux, and painting tournaments as such creates a stigma that passes down to newer players.  Tournament games have been some of my most fun games, I just finished playing at the NOVA open, and played 8 great games, against 8 super nice players and had tons of fun.  There is nothing wrong with saying, I don't enjoy pressure in my games so I avoid tourneys, or don't liked timed games etc.  But please don't paint those of us that go ams being unfun to play against.  For the record during the national championship, I was granted, and granted people take backs, reminded people of things they forgot to do, and my. In game Most memorable moment involved a a malifaux raptor, red jokering damage to take out Nino in my final game.  Outside the games my most memorable moment was when we had Cojo climb the Washington monument, because we are all silly nerds having a good time.

I don't want to paint all tournament players as WAAC guys, but one WAAC guy ruins the whole day for me, so I only play against people I know I'll enjoy to play. It's a difference.

[Sklertic]

Grace and fairness makes a good opponent.

Whining and playing solely for a win will make for a bad time.

[valhallan42nd]

I play all games to win. Everyone likes to win. Everyone will lose on their way to learning how to win. Losing with grace is a skill acquired during that time, hopefully. 

Even more important is learning to win with grace.

[Sordid Strumpet]

I agree win most of what was said, however I'd like to see people divorce this notion of "i don't like WAAC, gotachas, etc.  So I avoid tournaments."  That is a ridiculously small portion of any miniatures gaming event, especially in malifaux, and painting tournaments as such creates a stigma that passes down to newer players.  Tournament games have been some of my most fun games, I just finished playing at the NOVA open, and played 8 great games, against 8 super nice players and had tons of fun.  There is nothing wrong with saying, I don't enjoy pressure in my games so I avoid tourneys, or don't liked timed games etc.  But please don't paint those of us that go ams being unfun to play against.  For the record during the national championship, I was granted, and granted people take backs, reminded people of things they forgot to do, and my. In game Most memorable moment involved a a malifaux raptor, red jokering damage to take out Nino in my final game.  Outside the games my most memorable moment was when we had Cojo climb the Washington monument, because we are all silly nerds having a good time.

 

I'm not saying all tournament players are nasty to play against. Far from it. But that's where they tend to aggregate - so there's more of a chance that I'll a.) have to play someone like that and b.) won't be able to just walk away. I've not played anyone in Malifaux who wasn't a superb opponent. It's just that I get what I want from the game without going to tournaments.

The main thing I don't like about tournaments is the pressure in terms of time restrictions and the need to score points. It tends to change the atmosphere of games to something I don't like.

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Optimally, you want to match personalities with the opponent you are playing against. I don't like playing against super casual "just for fun" players as much as I don't like playing against fanboy rules lawyerig neckbeards. I want a serious game - there's no reason a game can't be both serious and fun.

Also... absolutely can't stand super sensitive gamers you need to tiptoe around to avoid offending and I seem to even make a point of it to be even more forward and brash when approached with said person. Call it the result of a clash between personalities, or what have you, but if you expect me to cater to your specific intricacies, you've got another thing coming.

Within reason, of course, but I'm talking about all those excessive "nice-guy bandwagoners" or hyper-senstive people that must never leave their house.

A couple more points:

"Its just a hobby - whats the point if its not fun" mentality: I will never invest any amount of time into anything I do unless I am fully dedicated and serious about what I do - "fun" is a side benefit.

The "gotcha" thing - sucks but it happens. I lose more to misinterpretations of the rules or things I didn't know about than anything else. I'm also guilty of winning in the same fashion from time to time. Malifaux is too complicated for your average lay-gamer... its just something you have to accept, I guess.

[Sordid Strumpet]

 

"Its just a hobby - whats the point if its not fun" mentality: I will never invest any amount of time into anything I do unless I am fully dedicated and serious about what I do - "fun" is a side benefit.

The "gotcha" thing - sucks but it happens. I lose more to misinterpretations of the rules or things I didn't know about than anything else. I'm also guilty of winning in the same fashion from time to time. Malifaux is too complicated for your average lay-gamer... its just something you have to accept, I guess.

Well yes, but it's a hobby - you do it voluntarily. Thus there must be a reason why you do it, as in - you enjoy doing it. What makes you enjoy it depends on the person. I for one paint a lot more than I play, but at the same time wouldn't buy a single model if there wasn't a game to go along with it that I enjoy.

And it so happens for me to enjoy something, I need to get a few laughs out of it or it has to be useful. My work is useful. My hobby I get laughs out of. I'm by no means super casual and don't even try to win, but I avoid people whose entire existence depends upon winning a game involving toy soldiers. I find that disturbing and playing them gives me a headache, so no thanks.

 

As for gotchas - there's a fine line between those and walking into a well-set up trap. But if my opponent pushes a model down the board and purposely doesn't tell me he is about to maul my entire crew in melee (fully aware that I am only just starting the game, mind), I consider that unsportsmanlike.

[Sklertic]

I dont mind "Gotcha" as such, but it really depends on how the other player goes about it.

If I make a mistake against an opponent I know and against familiar crews and he doesnt say anything, that is 100% okay, because the fault is mine and the same is true vice versa.

If it's the first time against a finicky crew or model, then i expect someone to point out the "cheese" when we start the game and then it's up to me to remember said cheese. An example would be not explaining the Hangeds aura to a new player or Hannahs bury spell.

But the most important thing is to keep a straight face. Sure it sucks to lose sometimes, but making the opponent feel bad for beating you is incredibly poor form. I know someone, who kinda just gives up in his mind very easily and just mopes the rest of the game. Really irritating when it happens.

[Myyrä]

Different people enjoy different aspects of the hobby and thus there probably isn't single type of opponent that would be perfect for everyone, but that is OK. You are allowed to like what you like.

I myself like strong opponents. Playing with less than my full strength is rather boring. I don't mind letting my opponent have some sort of advantage like having more models or letting them choose my master as long as I don't have to intentionally play suboptimally or "nice" as some people might call it.

That being said, I don't like to win (or lose) because of some gotcha type of effect. I often warn my opponent if they are about to do something really stupid that will cost them the game in the early turns.

[zFiend]

I do remember my first game with Hoffman against myyrä. I had just finished my deployment, he looked over and went "fix that or you have lost already"

[Slapdrone]

Good opponent?  Somebody who is not still beating the drum for 1.5.  The guys who are stuck between editions and are either complaining about what they miss, or make the game go south when they realize they can't do something in M2E that worked in 1.5.  Good opponents know the rules or know when to ask a question when they aren't clear about something and get excited about the game.  The guy who is pleasantly surprised when I pull off something unexpected, might congratulate me and feels like he learned something.  Not the guy who throws his cards down and pouts, walks away from the table and says he's done.