A noobs (re)view of the starter set.

[El_Commi]

To clarify; I'm completely new to Malifaux, but not the Wargaming/miniture hobby in general. 
Almost all of my experience has been with Warhammer and Warhammer 40k. i'm an average painter who paints at below average speeds - but it is the area I enjoy the most.

Ordering was rather painless, but waiting wasn't. Truth be told, it's always painful waitingo for something fun to arriveso this was no different.

Upon opening, my first impression was of being slightly underwhelmed. I'm used to seeing GW sprues chocked full of bits (most of which go unused), so it was a little unnerving seeing a sparse sprue.
 

The card decks were beautiful as well as the stat cards. Very good quality, although I will still be slieving them. One thing that did definitly stand out to me though was the plastic bit inside the box has holes which are big enoguh to accomodate the Tape measures and cards, but not the box for those cards. Eg; if you put the cards back into the box they won't fit, but will fit outside.I get the impression the starter box was meant to allow some degree of portability - but not being able to box the cards up kinda takes away from that. I'm not sure if its intentional.

Two tape measures was a solid choice; can't really knock it at all; only one gripe would be that the tape has about an inch between the end and 0, making it a little tricky to get measurements.


The book was very nice, I like the inclusion of the little bits of fluff to help tie the scenario together. Along with the phased introduction of the rules. Although, when we played we jumped the gun and went straight into accuracy modifiers.

The box itself was very pretty, all in all despite being slightly underwhelmed with the sprue it was a solid purchase.

The models themselves were gorgeous.  The details were crisp and reletively easy to assemble. This is a big plus; I'm not new to glueing things but aside from a few spindly legs this was supremely easy to assemble. The pieces in many cases fit together so well I can't even see a seam.
Despite being reletively plain, the models have a lot of character and I am expecting them to be fun to paint. For what it's worth, I would recommend a hosting a painting guide somewhere.  Even just something fairly basic - to give folks an idea of what to do if they've never done it before.

Last night, I played a number of games with my partner who is not into mini's or wargaming at all. And she enjoyed it.

This is where the little book really shines, it was very very straight forward for me to explain to her how things worked. We run the first scenario  about 4 times until she got the hang of it, then moved into the second.
We ran this about 3 times. First just with movement and attacking, second using the extra abilities. Again, it went pretty well. She enjoyed it and I had fun working out how stuff worked.
The damage flip is interesting.
We did  have a moments blip though looking at some of the rules on the Neverborn cards. It allowed her to draw then discard a card after an attack, and as we had no idea what that meant, we went with the premise that it was for her hand, rather than a + flip.
Although a little clarification there may be useful ( I couldn't find it in the little booklet).

We never moved onto the next game as it was getting late, but have some more planned for when the baby is off to bed tonight.


All in all, I'm very pleased. Was a nice package put together well, and give a very clear introduction to the game. I'll be running a game or two with it tomorrow for my friends and can certainly see me playing more. I really like the theme of the models but nothing has really stood out to me just yet, largely becasue I think I'll need more games and a better idea of how to build a force before I commit to a faction 


 

[Dirial]

Drawing and discarding cards always means the Fate hand, yes. Thanks for the report. Very interested in your perspective.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Nice review, seemed to cover the hits and misses objectively. (Also, great first post )

[El_Commi]

Technically not my first post, but thanks anyway!
I am quite impressed with the set it's very polished. My main issue, and it really is petty is that I can't put the card boxes into the little plastic slots.. which is nothing really as I'll be loading them into my KR case anyway!

Daughter is just in bed, so now it's time for the third scenario with my partner.

[SpiralngCadavr]

Umm, weird. Some posts... don't count as posts? 'Cause I'm seeing a count of 1 and you've clearly posted twice in this thread.

 

edit: ...and this one didn't just up my count. That's really strange.

[Absolution Black]

Probably a result of the upgrade|move? I can't see what I'm typing again whilst on the mobile

[goblyn13]

Most likely doesnt count because this is the same forum as the off-topic thread, and this section usually isn't just about Malifaux or other Wyrd games

[SpectreEliteGaming]

Wondering if there is post-count-nazism going on now. Hmmm...

If there is - could just remove post count all together - zFiend might be sad though.

Some count / some don't seems like a silly half measure. I do recall reading something about some posts not counting in another thread though.

---------

Good first impressions. I was pretty damn happy with the starter altogether. I remember being told by some peeps that bought the starter at Gen Con that the cards were plastic - they certainly aren't and was let down by that - oh well, I don't like guild or neverborn anyway. Coming from GeeDubs background I'm surprised you liked the detail. I find the Wyrd plastics to be very plain and the details shallow. It gives you a lot of potential for utilizing painting effects but overall kinda sucks for your average gamer. Wyrd seems to be experimenting with model "options" lately so stay tuned to see what happens there. Options are great - hard to do conversions without bits, afterall. My wyrd conversions have been getting WWX and WFB treatments as of late.

The guild model designs look great - the neverborns look... not great. The scion of black blood is probably the worst model I've seen for a looooong time. And by probably I mean definently. And definently as in it is definently not getting built/painted ever.

The tape measures were better than I expected and overall the box is way more than I expected for 60-65$ or whatever it was.

[El_Commi]

l, I don't like guild or neverborn anyway. Coming from GeeDubs background I'm surprised you liked the detail. I find the Wyrd plastics to be very plain and the details shallow. It gives you a lot of potential for utilizing painting effects but overall kinda sucks for your average gamer.

The guild model designs look great - the neverborns look... not great. The scion of black blood is probably the worst model I've seen for a looooong time. And by probably I mean definently. And definently as in it is definently not getting built/painted ever.

The tape measures were better than I expected and overall the box is way more than I expected for 60-65$ or whatever it was.

GW seem to cram (sometimes) too much detail into some of their minis that often gets ignored or broken. I kinda like the understated nature of the Guild, really makes them feel menacing.

I think you are right about the Neverborn though, aside from Angel Eyes, I'm not too keen on those. Originally I was thinking of building a list around Jacob Lynch and neverborn.. after seeing the Guild minis though, I think I'll probably side with Lucious

[SpectreEliteGaming]

... or... wait for it... play Neverborm Lucius for double win?

[El_Commi]

That could work..

I kinda want something with lots of ghosts for my first build though

[VisionVoid]

Have you seen the non-starter box plastics in person? I think the starter box set is more plain than their standard for plastics. I agree that they may not have the excessive detail of some of the new GW stuff, but I think in general the detailing on them is great. Most of them anyways

[El_Commi]

No, I haven't. I haven't seen a shop stock it near me. Though to be fair, we have no real gaming stores. There's a big GW and one small store that's primarily all about historicals.
GW detail saturation is frustrating some times because usually after I've finished painting a section I realise that one bit belongs to a different bit, or I missed out something.
On the other hand... I love my undead

I've almost finished an orderly, it's been a real challenge actually having to tone down the wacky colour schemes Im used to I have a cobble stone base for him, and was going to put on a candle.. but was talked out of it by the missus.. I think some lamp posts are on the agenda now

Any ideas for a ghost themed crew? The models I really like are Lucious/Lynch. Graveyard Spirits, The Hanged and Sorrows, I'd like to build something with most of those in it but not exactly sure how

[VisionVoid]

I'm probably not the best person to ask for building crews - I just buy and play whatever looks good to me at the time, and if they happen to work out well together then that's just a bonus

[dancater]

Ghost themed crew, really depends on what you mean by ghost?

If you mean zombies and all the other undead then any Rezzers master works, McMourning give you Guild/Rezzer crossover with a mad Doctor Frankenstein feel. Nicodiem is the king of summoning. Yan Lo has a really ancient feel but its still skeletons and such more than ghosts.

But for real 'ghost' concept its about spirits. For that Kirai is really on point and the spirit Molly crew is also in theme. I've never played Kirai but I have seen her played and it is very much about spirits and felt ghostly.

[Carcosa]

Ghost themed crew, really depends on what you mean by ghost?

If you mean zombies and all the other undead then any Rezzers master works, McMourning give you Guild/Rezzer crossover with a mad Doctor Frankenstein feel. Nicodiem is the king of summoning. Yan Lo has a really ancient feel but its still skeletons and such more than ghosts.

But for real 'ghost' concept its about spirits. For that Kirai is really on point and the spirit Molly crew is also in theme. I've never played Kirai but I have seen her played and it is very much about spirits and felt ghostly.

Yep, Kirai is the one you want with the whole spurned lover vibe going on about it. Another option is going Pandora with the Sorrows, poltergeist and other assorted incorporeal neverborn beasties, which would allow you to use half of the starter box as more choices as well.

[dancater]

A valid point, I heard ghost and got jammed on undead. The Sorrows in Neverborn are less the spirits of the departed and more the manifestations of spiritual nightmare.

Between those two you'd certainly find the weird ghostly, malign, spirit theme. If you like Lucius then Sorrows also give you an in there, not sure how they would play with him but they could go in a Neverborn crew with him and also Pandora box includes Candy who as a 'Mimic' has multiple and some quite frightening applications with Lucius lead crews.

Nice thinking Carcosa

[Carcosa]

A valid point, I heard ghost and got jammed on undead. The Sorrows in Neverborn are less the spirits of the departed and more the manifestations of spiritual nightmare.

Between those two you'd certainly find the weird ghostly, malign, spirit theme. If you like Lucius then Sorrows also give you an in there, not sure how they would play with him but they could go in a Neverborn crew with him and also Pandora box includes Candy who as a 'Mimic' has multiple and some quite frightening applications with Lucius lead crews.

Nice thinking Carcosa

I have always wondered what would be a good use of sorrows in a Lucius neverborn crew. Candy for sure, Kade and Teddy fit the bill as well but Lucius has the restriction of only working really well with minions, which leaves precious few models that trigger terror or WP duels. Lawyers would be an interesting take on the theme however.

[Dirial]

Don't forget Beckoners.

If you want creepy ghosts, and don't want the Asian feel of Kirai, Jack Daw is your next stop.

[El_Commi]

Thanks for the adivce!

I had been eyeing up the Pandora set, but wasn't sure on her as a master. I don't really like the Asian vibe,

I really like the Sorrows though, I was thinking of making a "ghost themed" crew aeshetically rather than playstyle, because to be fair.. I have no idea how to play/make a crew yet, so have really just been thinking of stuff that will look cool together

I like the sound of Lucious with Sorrows .. that could make for a really creepy looking crew..

Maybe some "Depleted"? Those tentacle things could be made to look more ethereal.. I'm just shooting in the dark here

*Edit*
For those interested, here is my first orderly. First attempt at a warm white, reletively pleased. not too happy with the syringe (hence not showing it!).

Base is missing something to make it pop, but I couldn't figure out what. None of my flock/grass/flowers seemed to fit.

Edited August 24, 2015 by El_Commi
Adding picture.

[dancater]

You'll have to balance your desire for theme against your drive to max-power any list. Lucius can run with Sorrows, it will be a functional list but very tricky and not "ideal" for what he can do. The trick as Carcosa has stated succinctly will be that Lucius is a buff for minions and sorrows as Minions demand support which forces Willpower duels, not something Lucius brings built in, thus you are forced to spend stones on henchmen or enforcers. If you head over to the Neverborn forums you'll get some advise.

Also Dirial makes another solid point for creepy then Jack Daw has that in spades, but again his force is more twisted corpse than twisted spirit.

I know the Asian theme does not appeal but if you get the chance to look over Kirai's rules and main models I think play wise she might be right in the wheelhouse. Either way you have plenty of ammunition to go out and test fire ideas and concepts. I would by the way also play Pandora a few times with her Sorrows as she runs them well and nasty and it will give you a feel for what they do before you experiment with Lucius, it is very, very hard "learning" Lucius while at the same time learning a tricky minion because his main schtick is to maximise the minion.

Good luck mate.

[PeregrineFalcon]

GW seem to cram (sometimes) too much detail into some of their minis that often gets ignored or broken. I kinda like the understated nature of the Guild, really makes them feel menacing.
I think you are right about the Neverborn though, aside from Angel Eyes, I'm not too keen on those. Originally I was thinking of building a list around Jacob Lynch and neverborn.. after seeing the Guild minis though, I think I'll probably side with Lucious

The detail level (or simplicity) of the starter box was 100% intentional by Wyrd. The idea was that this box is really for someone who has never even heard of a miniature game before. Most of the 'veterans' out there would agree with your statements. This box is very important for Wyrd as it introduces the game to a wider audience, and even if people never paint the models they can get some exposure to the hobby with little to no difficulty. 

For example, I had my 13 year old brother assemble most of the box. He had never played a miniature game, never used clippers, nor a sharp hobby knife. A few small clipping issues, but nothing I couldn't easily remedy. I think the starter box, for $65, is a solid entry box for anyone. If you consider the young generation of video gamers spend about that much for the latest release on their gaming system/PC. 

Another thing to remind you ( and anyone else out there ) is that included in the starter box is a way to download the entire Malifaux ruleset for free. Don't forget to do that as that's a $15 value rolled right into the starter. See the booklet for more information on how to redeem.

The beauty of Lucius is he can play as Neverborn or Guild so you'll find a lot of value from his starter box. To be fair, Lucius starter and adding in Tannen, Graves, Beckoner, and Doppleganger from Neverborn would be a great addition. Because they are all MIMICS, Lucius can hire them into Guild. Furthermore, these models are Lynch centric as well and can be a benefit to both sides of your starter box crews. The best thing is if you decide to go Lynch route a little later on you'll have most of what Lynch already enjoys running! 

Welcome to Malifaux, and love the review and the fact you shared the game with a non-minis gamer  Keep us updated!

EDIT: Oh and for good painting guides and other free Wyrd content don't forget they do the e-zine, Wyrd Chronicles (http://www.wyrd-games.net/media#media-wyrd-chronicles-section). There aren't any specific M2E starter painting tutorials in there but are others.

 

Edited August 24, 2015 by PeregrineFalco
Link to chronicles

[El_Commi]

My reply was deleted I think :|

I'm not too fussed on getting a max power list. I'm happy being a mid tier player ;p

I wasn't criticising the simplicity, I rather like it. Give me room to hone up my painting skills. I can't wait to expand on my collection though. I suspect my partner has bought me the Pandora box as a birthday gift..

I have so much to paint on my table, I'm going to have to start practising with that unopened airbursh :|

[crushmurderfist]

Excellent review, Im just waiting on the starter set arriving so i can play. Just started a ressers crew with Seamus Box set cant wait to get my teeth into the rules.

[El_Commi]

As a catch up.
I ran a friend through the first 3 games last week, and he seemed intrigued. I think he enjoyed the pace of the game but I suspect he probably won't invest in his own crew though. I think he has abandoned miniture gaming. (He rarely played Warhammer 8th anymore, and refuses to play Age of Sigmar)

On the other hand, the past 3 nights in a row my partner and I have played Malifaux. We started where we left off last week by running Game 4, she pulled off a few nice moves but I took the win. She never realised the Scion had a ranged attack, so charged in then read his attacks..

Game 4 (we played this one twice) was the first time I felt I was playing a full game, which is understandable as the first 3 are designed to ease you into it. Not massively useful to me as I've played with minitures most of my adult life, but basics of movement etc were completely new to my partner so I think it was wise to seperate them.

Game 5 was the final game in the starter set, and one that I think introduced all the mechanics and soulstones etc. This was a really close game, my partner guessed a few of my moves in advance, and Angel Eyes is scary when played well (Especially when he first shot has two negative flips and gets a red joker!).

I really enjoyed the last two games/scenarios. They were a lot of fun. My partner actually wants to play more! This is somewhat surprising, she's dabbled a bit in DnD with me but never really took to it. Warhammer was always out of the question.
But Malifaux? She loves it. She's even been talking about getting her own crew etc, (although with the caveat that I have to paint it lol), which is a really impressive feat as she's never really been interested in any mini games before.
Things she said she likes;
There's a finality to each game, not like DnD where once you stop playing. The story is unfinished. With Malifaux a game is self contained, or can form a wider narrative. But once the game is done, thats it.
Time to play; this is a big bonus. With a 2 year old, we often don't get long to play. A 2h dnd session after the child is in bed requires usually a third person(one player dnd doesn't really work imo), and we never get much done. 2 hours can squeeze in a game of Malifaux, or two! In contrast, other board/card games can take similiar amounts of time, (game depending) - but lack a lot of the involvement of Malifaux.
Cost of entry: She knows how much Warhammer and other games cost (though, thankfully not how much I spend on them!). Knowing she can pick up a new crew and change her playstyle for £25 is a good thing.
The rules are pretty straight forward. We had a tricky issue with shooting and LoS. So looking at the main rule book, it was perfectly clear how it worked. Then we went right back to the game. Although, it's probably just me, but I was unsure if during a attack flip we draw the red joker, does it count as an auto success or just a 14? We played it as a 14 of any suit.

Finally, and this one is from me. I think the quick start rules from the intro box are excellent. Game 1 was a bit dull for me, I got the basics reading over the book. We played it about 5 times though till the mechanics became second nature to my partner. Then we played the second game (movement) a bunch of times as using the tape measure to move was alien to her.
The third game we did once - but the addition of extra abilities made it sufficiently new and reenforced what was previously learned.
The 4th as it introduced interactions was good and it added more strategy.
And obviously the 5th was pretty close to a complete game. I got one extra VP than her, but I swear when I saw my Nurse go down, I thought she had it in the bag..

The step-by-step guide to new mechanics was really really useful. I think had we sat down with the equivilent of a Game 5 to begin with, she probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much, as it is a lot to take in. But taken over a few weeks, doing each scenario a couple times meant that she wasn't overwhelmed and actually got the grips of the game pretty quickly.

All in all, it was an excellent introduction to the game. One I think will be played regurlarly between the two of us and maybe with my group once they come around to playing something other than Warhammer.

 

Edited September 5, 2015 by El_Commi