Vulture, Nicodem and His Ca's

[Gibbs]

Hi guys!

 

First of all, i did search it on the forum but there is no official response to that. Here, in Spain, we do believe as we read on the cards that Nicodem Undead Crowning wouldn't work with the Vulture. As the Vulture allows u to use range and LoS, the pulse is still generated by nicodem himself and wouldn't be carried around with the Vulture. 

 

Anyway, we might understood that in the wrong way. Anyone here can explain it slowly to us? Any official response on that? What about Nicodem other pulses like Maniacal Laugh or The Fog?

 

Thank you so much!

[AoS]

Nico can Draw Los and range from the Vulture for Ca actions.

 

Undead Crowing generates an aura from the miniature who cast the action, and that's Nicodem. The Vulture don´t generate that aura. In the other hand, the range of the action is (-) and not the 8"   of the aura, that's just the effect.

[Viagrus]

I think you're playing it right. Undead Crowning is an action but it affects models in an aura of the the caster (Nicodem).

The Vulture's Eyes and Ears Tactical Action allows you only to draw LOS and Range from itself, it does not become the casting model.

If Eyes and Ears let you copy the ability like the Malifaux Child's Just Like You Action then the Aura would be generated from the Vulture.

[Mach_5]

Agreed, I believe the aura is always generated from the casting model, so eyes and ears wouldn't allow you to center the aura on the vulture.

[Durza]

I disagree, it's still a Ca, and you draw LOS and range for the aura, so I'd say you can do it from the Vulture.

[Dirial]

I disagree, it's still a Ca, and you draw LOS and range for the aura, so I'd say you can do it from the Vulture.

Agreed.

[AoS]

Remember that Nico can draw LoS and range from the vulture for Ca actions.

Nico is who generates the aura and cannot draw LoS or range from the vulture to affect more models with the aura.

[Durza]

"Until the start of this model's next activation, target friendly master may use this model to draw LoS and range for any Ca actions it takes."

 

I'd say you can choose either Nicodem or the Vulture to generate the aura.

[Sklertic]

We play it as Durza suggests. It makes the most sense.

[jonahmaul]

'The aura icon ( ) appears as part of the range for some Actions or Abilities ... An aura is centred on a model and radiates out in all directions from the edge of the model's base and moves with that model as it moves' (big rulebook page 50, my emphasis).

 

The Vulture allows you to measure LoS and Range for Ca action.  Auras are measured from 'a' model and not necessarily the model that casts it.  Undead Crowing is a Ca action meaning the Vulture can Cast it and so the Aura can be generated by, and measured from, the Vulture.

[AoS]

 

The Vulture allows you to measure LoS and Range for Ca action.  Auras are measured from 'a' model and not necessarily the model that casts it.  Undead Crowing is a Ca action meaning the Vulture can Cast it and so the Aura can be generated by, and measured from, the Vulture.

 

 

The Vulture don't cast the action in any moment. So he can't generate the aura.

 

I understand your point, Nico Cast the action using LoS and range from the Vulture, and you say that then the Vulture is generating the aura.

 

I don't think so, even if you use the LoS and range from the Vulture the Ca action is made by Nicodem and the aura should be on him and not the Vulture, but yep could be interpreted as you say in the way that it is write.

[jonahmaul]

Sorry, bad terminology.  Undead Crowing can be cast through the Vulture and therefore the Aura will emanate from him because they have a range measured from 'a' model (which doesn't have to be the model that cast it).

[AoS]

 

 

Undead Crowing can be cast through the Vulture 

I don't think that is correct either.

 

Nicodem can draw LoS and range from the Vulture. Not the same that cast the action through it.

 

If you cast the action through a miniature and that action generates an aura, the aura would be generated by the miniature which you cast through, but that is not the case. I think this is where we disagree.

[Durza]

Undead crowning doesn't have a range, but you still need LoS and range for the aura.

 

The Vulture lets Nico draw LoS and range for any Ca action, Undead crowning is a Ca action.

[jonahmaul]

Durza has explained it succinctly.  Essentially Nicodem would Cast Undead Crowing by drawing Range and LoS from the vulture and then the range of the Aura would be measured from the Vulture.

[AoS]

step to step.

 

1) Vulture use eyes and ears which allows Nico draw LoS and Rg through the Vulture with Ca actions.

 

2) Nico is gonna cast Undead Crowing.

 

3) He decides to draw LoS and Rg through the Vulture.

 

4) The action don't need LoS and has no Rg.

 

5) The effect is an aura around Nicodem.

 

 

 

The aura's range is not part of the Ca action. The aura is an effect from the Ca action, so Nico cannot draw the aura's Rg or LoS from the Vulture.

[jonahmaul]

4) The action does have a range as Aura's have range drawn from the edge of the models base as per the rulebook

 

5) The effect is an Aura around the VUlture

 

The Aura's range is part of the Ca action because it is an effect of the Action itself.

[AoS]

 

 

The action does have a range as Aura's have range drawn from the edge of the models base as per the rulebook

May I know where is that in the rulebook?

 

 

 

 

 

The Aura's range is part of the Ca action because it is an effect of the Action itself.

That's not correct I'm afraid.

[jonahmaul]

Big rulebook page 50 as I already quoted above.  And can you point to a reason that it 'is not correct I'm afraid' because according to the rulebook it is?  Also, can't seem to quote people directly at the moment, don't know if it's a problem with the new website (assume not as everybody else is able to) or computer I'm using at work.

[Phinn]

I think that it works for Muwahahaha (Maniacal Laugh Upgrade), because the Range is 8:

(0) Muwahahaha (Ca 6 / TN: 13 / Rg: 8): Summon one Mindless Zombie into base contact with each Corpse Marker in range, then discard all Corpse Markers in range. Mindless Zombies may not count as Corpse Markers for this Action.

 

But not for The Fog (Reaper Grin Upgrade), because it doesn't have any Range.

(1) The Fog (Ca 6   / TN: 15 / Rg -): Until the start of this model’s next Activation, models within 4 of this model gain the benefits of Soft Cover.

 

The same goes for Undead Crowning (Necrotic King Upgrade):

(1) Undead Crowning (Ca 6   / TN: 15 / Rg -): Until the end of the Turn, all friendly Undead models within  8 gain   to their damage flips and Ca Actions.

[solkan]

I agree with AOS.  The  generated by Undead Crowning doesn't care whether Nicodem tries to draw LoS or measure range from the Vulture, because the Aura is on Nicodem.

 

Concerning the statement in the rulebook,

 

The aura icon (  ) appears as part of a range for some Actions or Abilities.

the first example which comes up when scanning through the models is on page 131 of the Core Rulebook, on the Crooked Man:

 

(0) Shafted (Ca 5C / TN: 14C / Rg: 6):

The next example is Somer Teeth Jones, page 227:

 

(0) Do It Like Dis! (Ca 6 / TN: 12 / Rg:  8):

 

Those are auras specified as part of the range of the the casting action, and if Nicodem had something like that then Vulture could be used for it.  Undead Crowning doesn't qualify because it's a Rg: - ability which places an aura on a specified model.

[Gibbs]

Still no OFFICIAL response for this, which causes so many doubts.

 

HALP US!

[Dirial]

Still no OFFICIAL response for this, which causes so many doubts.

 

HALP US!

None is coming in here. They only respond in FAQ.

[jonahmaul]

Yeah, even if Nathan/Aaron etc. come here and write something it's still just their opinion unless it appears in the official bi-monthly FAQ document,

[AoS]

In my experience in this forum you wont get an oficial response, and it doesn't seem like this is gonna be faqed. Play it as you agree with your comunity. I'm from Spain too and we play as I told you before.

[Dirial]

Why do you think it won't be FAQ'd?