new member is looking for advice

[Luca 2.0]

hey guys!! i'm new at this game. i like it very much but i need to practice a lot.

i'm undecided between 2 crews, kaeris and rasputina,i've bought raspy but i saw some days later that i need some miniatures that are not yet availables for her. kaeris right now has more miniatures available so should i use her? or maybe miniatures like snow storm will come soon? that's one of my problem. The second is more important: how should i build these crews for a starter player ? how Works raspy and kaeris? what  is the gameplan/ and the possible settage of these crews in game?

Can u help me? thanks for the answer.

[Dirial]

Can't decide between Fire and long range Blasts? Sounds like you want Sonnia Criid!

Did you see their respective Wiki pages? There's a lot of info there already.

[PraetorDragoon]

As Dirial said (but he is biased), if you want fire and blasts, Sonnia does best

 

Kaeris sets friendly and enemy models on fire in order to damage enemies or improve friendly models. She is pretty mobile, but tends to rely a bit more on her crew to do heavy lifting. She can either heal models or give them flying. She can put down Pyres that can block LoS. She enjoys having models that can dish out the Burning condition around. More on this here: http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/M2E+Kaeris

 

Rasputina, does blasts. She can channel her spells through models with the Frozen Heart ability. She tends to be immobile, but is immune to Paralyzed and Horror. She has board control in the form of Ice Pillars Her crew consists mostly of models with the Frozen Heart ability and models that can move around quickly. More on this here: http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/M2E+Rasputina

 

As for Sonnia, she always has LoS to targets that are burning, and can cover quite a lot of ground with her Blasts. She can put targets on fire, and can summon Witchlings when burning models die. Like Raspy, she can  place down Flame Pillars for board control. In addition, she has several powerful "Anti-Magic" tricks. She does like to have some models that put down Burning, but is more flexible in list building. More on this here: http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/M2E+Sonnia+criid

[Dirial]

As Dirial said (but he is biased), if you want fire and blasts, Sonnia does best

 

Right on both accounts: I'm biased, and Sonnia is the best.

[madaxeman]

raspy is missing 3 models that seem to be very popular / good - Smowstorm, Silent Ones and Blessed of December. The stuff in the box + the Hoarcats and Acolytes works OK, but these 3 would be in most Raspy players first team squad if they were available, even if they didn't play in every game.

Most if not all of Kaeris models are on sale already, so if you don't fancy hunting down proxies that probably suggests you start with Kaeris.

I say "start with" as if you find you like the game, you will end up buying the other stuff anyway, so it's a timing issue, not a cash issue....

[Adran]

Rasputina can work well without Snowstorm, Blessed and Silent one, but you will need to look for some mobility in her crew for some missions. The Acolytes can do this with from the shadows.

 

I'd suggest gettign soem games with Rasputina now that you have her, and see how the crew works for you, and where you think you struggle with them, as eevryone plays slightly differentl, and have different views on exactl the same crews.

There are other models in the faction that can do similar duty to those that are missing.

[Luca 2.0]

Thanks a lot guys for the answers, you guys help me a lot.

just the last question, what should i buy with kaeris? so i will not waste my money for wrong models:)

[Dirial]

Metal Gamin and Rail Golem... and Gunsmiths. Ironsides' box. Mech Rider of course. Get Ramos' box too....

[PraetorDragoon]

Thanks a lot guys for the answers, you guys help me a lot.

just the last question, what should i buy with kaeris? so i will not waste my money for wrong models:)

 

Gunsmitsh, Metal Gamin, and Rail Golem.

 

Then add any minions/henchmen you like. The models that don't work for her can be counted on one mutlilated hand.

[mythicFOX]

As others have said you'll want;  Ramos Box (for Joss & Howard)*, Metal Gamin, and Mech Rider.

 

Probably in that order. 

 

* You may want a Rail Golem rather than Howard, too some extent it's personal preference but IMHO Howard is better.

 

Don't buy Gunsmiths. Just don't. December Acolytes and/or Johan are strictly better 7ss choices.

[Luca 2.0]

also mech rider! she can give reactive at turn 5 right? how should i use that horse?

Btw may i sacrifice with devour of the wendigo an enemy model  that is paralized of any HT?

[Dirial]

Mech Rider's summon and his trigger are golden for a lot of strategies and schemes. Good beater as well, and tough to kill.

And yes, either Ht 1 or paralyzed will suffice.

[Jordon]

 

Don't buy Gunsmiths. Just don't. December Acolytes and/or Johan are strictly better 7ss choices.

 

I have to disagree with this. While I will not argue that acolytes are probably the best shooters in the game for their cost, the synergies between the gunsmiths and a kaeris crew can be amazing. 

 

First, their multitude of triggers really come in handy. Specifically the armour ignoring one as it tends to be something my kaeris crews lacks. I also find the mask and ram triggers nice, but tend to benefit more from being focused. 

 

Also since Kaeris loves attacking her own models to put burning on them, it gives you opportunities to cheat in a low ram to give the smiths fast which is amazing and can even be accomplished via simple duels (flare).

 

I also love their (0) to gain    against burning models and it is tailor made for Kaeris. It's no trouble to get burning where its needed with Kaeris and then all you need is LOS and the smiths tend to do the rest. Getting a   against models in cover is awesome and at the very least I find they chew through the opponents hand.

 

Lastly they work wonderfully with purifying flame. Healing combined with any H2K model is always a strong combo and Kaeris can do it in spades. They can be a real nuisance to put down and also retain their effectiveness in melee whereas the acolytes don't.

 

Either model is a great include, but I wouldn't write off the gunsmiths until you've tried them out first hand.

[Adran]

Stickied at the top is probably a good place to look for Kaeris advice.

[mythicFOX]

The problem with Gunsmiths is they're all peripheral benefits and no core.  When you hire a damage dealer you're looking for either high weak damage or some innate access to   on damage flips, Gunsmiths have neither.

 

It's not that they're unplayable, I've used them many times. The problem is they're worse than anything else you can spend 7ss on.  It doesn't help that if you're spending 7ss we already have access to three models which are much better;  The Firestarter, Johan, and December Acolytes.

[Fog]

Going to second MythicFox here, gunsmiths go with Ironsides, not Kaeris.  The 2 minimum damage means they don't get a lot of work done without some way to improve their damage flips.  They're cool, but they're not near optimal.  Johann is all sorts of utility with a big hammer for the same price and he doesn't require any specific order of activation to make him work.  That's the biggest deal breaker, I find.  Having to have Kaeris go first every turn makes your team incredibly predictable and you end up not benefiting from the bonuses or missing opportunities far too often.  

For Howard Vs. Rail Golem:  The rail golem's problem isn't 'He needs burning,' it's 'he needs tomes.'  So does Kaeris.  The + to attack flips would be nice if it wasn't attached to a Ml 5.  He's only hitting reliably against models you don't need the + to hit.  If you absolutely NEED him to make an attack, your opponent WILL cheat it out of range.  Hank, however, brings a crazy damage spread, more accurate attacks (having a 7 is an incredible difference), more reliable mobility in Nimble, flurry and decapitate.  Sure, the rail golem can go absolutely insane if you have the nuts draw but that realistically only happens one game in three and it's going to cost you your hand.  

[Bengt]

To me the problem with Gunsmiths is that if you have drawn the correct hand and is willing to feed it all to one Gunsmith it will perform great. But if you want to use your cards on more expensive/scheming models and top deck the Gunsmith they are going to disappoint. Even with the    from burning the chance that the highest card (or flipping several high cards) is going to be the suit you actually need right now is pretty low.

[hippodruid]

I am always amazed at how much flak Gunsmiths draw.  Is the assumed flip from an opponent an 11+?  Sh 6 is by no means shoddy, especially if attacking models that rely on special defenses (Armor/Hard to Wound/Hard to Kill) who tend to have lower Df.

 

Yes, Arcanists have other, more specialized options in the 7 SS field.  Gunsmiths are generalists, and people seem to think that being a generalist equates to being bad.  Can Johan do damage from 12" reliably?  Does a December's Acolyte or the Firestarter work as effectively while engaged as at range?  Do the Acolyte and Johan have access to an extra AP at cost?  Does that make them bad because they can't or don't?  I don't think anyone would argue that.

 

Gunsmiths provide flexibility in a game where literally anything could be dropped across the table from you.  I'm not looking for much more in a 7 SS model than one that can hit more often than not from range or while engaged and even more reliably if the target is Burning, with the possibility to ignore defenses, deny SS prevention, blast, or do more damage per AP spent and the ability to guarantee one of those effects if no Burning targets are available which can also become Fast for defending themselves, win or lose, or light enemies on fire for failing to hit.  They're pretty effective for Vendetta and Deliver the Message as well as marker-based schemes, and they're useful in most Strategies.

[D_acolyte]

I love gunsmith and have no problem "top decking" them, because I always do the 0 action to discard a card to gain the suit. Almost all the time I will have a low card to ditch and I will choose my target based on that.

[Bengt]

I am always amazed at how much flak Gunsmiths draw.  Is the assumed flip from an opponent an 11+?  Sh 6 is by no means shoddy, especially if attacking models that rely on special defenses (Armor/Hard to Wound/Hard to Kill) who tend to have lower Df.

 

Yes, Arcanists have other, more specialized options in the 7 SS field.  Gunsmiths are generalists, and people seem to think that being a generalist equates to being bad.  Can Johan do damage from 12" reliably?  Does a December's Acolyte or the Firestarter work as effectively while engaged as at range?  Do the Acolyte and Johan have access to an extra AP at cost?  Does that make them bad because they can't or don't?  I don't think anyone would argue that.

 

Gunsmiths provide flexibility in a game where literally anything could be dropped across the table from you.  I'm not looking for much more in a 7 SS model than one that can hit more often than not from range or while engaged and even more reliably if the target is Burning, with the possibility to ignore defenses, deny SS prevention, blast, or do more damage per AP spent and the ability to guarantee one of those effects if no Burning targets are available which can also become Fast for defending themselves, win or lose, or light enemies on fire for failing to hit.  They're pretty effective for Vendetta and Deliver the Message as well as marker-based schemes, and they're useful in most Strategies.

I'm not complaining that they can't hit stuff, Sh 6 is perfectly respectable, it's that they don't hit very hard for a 7 SS model unless you have the right suit. Acolytes have a good damage track up front and auto Slow, taking away AP from the opponent, which I think is just as good as getting Fast yourself in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention a built in suit for the discard trigger. And while flurry generally isn't as good as fast, Johan do get extra APs, sure it's a specialised AP, but then his card can be of any suit.

 

The Gunsmith is just potentially flexible, if you don't get the cards for the niche you want them to fill this turn they are not going to fill it.

[Luca 2.0]

thanks a lot guys, for now i bought only the december accolyte, he is really good.

I play 3 games with rasputina , i'm still a noob right now but it seems like she and her crew has no mobility, i should use snowstorm!

i don't know if i'm right but i needs snowstorm silent one and some pieces that throw spell or something like that, am i right?

[Fog]

I think slow on an enemy may be mathematically superior to fast on a friendly. It gives you 100% superiority instead of 50%. It can also be used to deny attacks, while fast is often just an extra attack.

Fast is better when scheme running though.

[Luca 2.0]

sorry the question but can i put 2 slow on enemy for making him losing 2 ap? so if it's correct i can also put 2 fast condition. It is correct?

[TimH]

No, slow doesnt stack with slow and fast doesnt stack with fast.