Expanding from Wong box

[ComponentFault]

Hey Folks!

I have mainly been a Neverborn player (with a splash of Rezzer) for the last year or so, and am looking to dabble with something a little different. The gremlins are definitely that.

After seeing some of the GenCon previews, I'm pretty interested in trying out Wong (and based on some of the comments I'm seeing about the box so far, I might be the only one ). I figure I'll be splurging a bit during the GenCon promo sale (unfortunately, I can't get there this year ), so I'm looking for help from the Gremlin community on how to expand from the Wong box.

What I'm thinking so far:

Ophelia box - I'm not super-interested in playing Ophelia, but there seems to be SO much goodness in that box

Slop Haulers - everyone seems to be saying that they're insane. Good enough for me.

What else/next? Would you prioritize anything higher than what I've got so far?

Thanks all!

CF

[zFiend]

Gracie and Burt. Seriously.

[Dirial]

Gracie and Burt. Seriously.

This. Also Merris.

[Uktena]

Gracie as pork flavored APC.

[ComponentFault]

Thanks, folks!

I will add Gracie, Merris, and Burt to the list then. Sounds like it will be a lot of fun to play!

Cheers!

CF

[Math Mathonwy]

I also wouldn't discount the humble Bayou Gremlins. For three SS, you can't find a better deal. Really versatile and nice padding for activations which Wong likes.

Normally I would never suggest getting in a stand-alone box any model that you can get in a Starter box but since Somer really likes eight Bayou Gremlins, there is no harm in getting the Bayou box and then the Somer box somewhere down the line if you fancy.

[Dumb Luck]

McTavish is another good Glowy target. However, don't always rely on that upgrade. Providing the right scenario comes up, I nearly always get more out of A Gremlin's Luck.

 

> inb4 Sammy LaCroix

[Omenbringer]

Normally I would never suggest getting in a stand-alone box any model that you can get in a Starter box but since Somer really likes eight Bayou Gremlins, there is no harm in getting the Bayou box and then the Somer box somewhere down the line if you fancy.

I agree that Som'er (and even Ophelia to an extent) really needs at least that many, though I seem to recall a time when you thought differently about that ;p

 

Never underestimate the power of a gremlin gun line, even the mightiest beast will fall to enough weak damage flips.

[ComponentFault]

Thanks - these are great ideas, and exactly the info I was hoping for.

We'll see what the wallet looks like in July, but I could see throwing in a pack of Bayou Gremlins. Som'er is a likely master a little further along (because Malifaux), so it is good to know that the box of gremlins will not be made irrelevant by buying the Som'er box later (I normally adhere to the same rule as Math... if I can get a unit in the crew box, I will generally just buy the crew box).

McTavish is an interesting suggestion - I hadn't really even considered him. I'm not sure if my wallet can handle that just yet, but I will definitely keep it in mind.

Thanks for the advice, folks! It really is fantastic how nice this community is.

[Math Mathonwy]

I agree that Som'er (and even Ophelia to an extent) really needs at least that many, though I seem to recall a time when you thought differently about that ;p

I still don't think he needs them - I think that a non-Summoning Somer is very viable. I mean, let's face it, Summoning a half-dead 3SS model is not very impressive use of a Master's AP. It's not bad (since the support machinery is so awesome and they are really, really good 3SS models) but Somer has lots of other amazing things to do with his AP like shooting his utterly insane gun or dropping hands or turning models into Piglets or whatever. Or simply moving to a better place to let his crew make a better use of his support abilities.

But if you want a proper Summon factory (which is extremely powerful in some Strategies - not denying that!), then I think that eight Bayou Gremlins is actually kinda the sweet spot as when you have eight on the table, it's a good opportunity to start doing something else

I certainly have never taken five (or more) Bayou Gremlins with Ophelia - three is the max I have used with her. OTOH I really like Young LaCroix and not everyone appreciated them so I guess if you didn't like them but wanted to have lots of models for outactivation, I suppose you could use five Bayou Gremlins.

[wizuriel]

Depends how you want to play Wong.

 

If you want the super glowly model of death Lenny + Gracie is a fun combo.

 

Sammy is really useful since both of Wong's limited can/are amazing.

 

Slop Haulers are always useful (also lower defense = easier time to get more blasts from Wong)

[Omenbringer]

I still don't think he needs them - I think that a non-Summoning Somer is very viable. I mean, let's face it, Summoning a half-dead 3SS model is not very impressive use of a Master's AP. It's not bad (since the support machinery is so awesome and they are really, really good 3SS models) but Somer has lots of other amazing things to do with his AP like shooting his utterly insane gun or dropping hands or turning models into Piglets or whatever. Or simply moving to a better place to let his crew make a better use of his support abilities.

But if you want a proper Summon factory (which is extremely powerful in some Strategies - not denying that!), then I think that eight Bayou Gremlins is actually kinda the sweet spot as when you have eight on the table, it's a good opportunity to start doing something else

I certainly have never taken five (or more) Bayou Gremlins with Ophelia - three is the max I have used with her. OTOH I really like Young LaCroix and not everyone appreciated them so I guess if you didn't like them but wanted to have lots of models for outactivation, I suppose you could use five Bayou Gremlins.

Oh I agree he is viable without summoning however the portion of summoning being a waste of Som'er's AP I have significant issue with. Each of his AP spent summoning is effectively another complete activation and at minimum one more AP for the crew. It could be two per if you can heal the new Bayou's so they can use Reckless to offset Slow the turn they are summoned. Using Som'er's AP for movement is the biggest waste of AP there is, since he could have pig tenders do that for him via the "Truffle Shuffle" and "Pig Ladders". About the only thing Som'er brings to the table that might compete with summoning efficiency is Bigger Hat than You. His other support abilities (all those 0 Actions) are better projected by his Skeeters, who are very mobile, more difficult to hit and smaller targets. As for Som'er summoning Piglets, well that is what Lenny is for, between them both they can churn out a surprising number of models per turn.

[Math Mathonwy]

Oh I agree he is viable without summoning however the portion of summoning being a waste of Som'er's AP I have significant issue with.

I certainly didn't say that it is a waste. But compared to a Ramos using one AP to summon three Spiders vs Somer using one AP to summon one Bayou Gremlin, I know which one is more impressive from the point of view of using Master AP. The important thing to bear in mind in this comparison is the other costs associated with the Summoning action (Ramos needs scrap and a soulstone and a high tome while Somer needs a Bayou Gremlin (and its wounds) as well as a low mask and a low card, essentially).

Somer using one AP can result, for example, in these situations:

a) Wounding a friendly Bayou Gremlin and summoning another one.

c) Shooting his insane gun and killing, say, three enemy models.

d) Killing an enemy model and summoning a Piglet.

e) Throwing away both players' hands disrupting many other Masters utterly.

From these, I would argue that c), d), and e) are, most of the time, more powerful than a). But of course they need a situation where you can do them and while a) of course needs a suitable situation as well, it is extremely easy to manufacture.

So yeah, my point was that if you can manufacture good situations, then summoning with Somer isn't all that impressive compared to other things. But I'm certainly not calling summoning a waste and it is indeed extremely powerful in some situations and even in others, it's often easy to do and therefore simpler to manufacture an ideal situation for than the rest of the things.

Hope I made some sense

[Dirial]

What happened to b?

[zFiend]

While Math is good in math he lacks in other departments like the alphabet.

[Math Mathonwy]

What happened to b?

This:

Which is why I had to omit b. Sadly.

[Dirial]

That's why I always us b. instead of ).

[zFiend]

That's why I always us b.

Ah a backdoor enthusiast.

[Omenbringer]

Well I would suggest that the missing in Math's post (getting out of the gutter for a moment) was probably option two with Get Your Bro. Kill the target Bayou by summoning another and net 2 control cards thanks to Survival of the Fittest.

 

E) is the only one that I would argue is better done with Som'er's AP as it supports the entire crew.

 

Summoning piglets (and why would you ever use enemies when you could use a wounded Bayou Gremlin that will either relent the attack or cheat down his defense to guaranty success, netting you not just the full health piglet but also 2 control cards in the process) is just as easily done with Lenny and when done in combination can result in up to 5 new models adding to the crews activation pool, AP and damage potential. Not to mention movement shenanigans and card draws.

 

His gun is good but never under estimate the potential of 3 Bayou Gremlin's all firing at same target that only care about hitting, not hitting particularly well (like Som'er wants to in order to really get the most out of his "insane" gun). It isn't like he has a great SH stat.

 

Knowing the importance Som'er plays for his crew's over all success makes him a huge target and from my experiences moving him up field to engage the enemy is usually a very bad idea and counterproductive. Som'er is more of a rear echelon motivator than a front line fighter. Your meta may be different of course.

[Math Mathonwy]

Summoning piglets (and why would you ever use enemies when you could use a wounded Bayou Gremlin that will either relent the attack or cheat down his defense to guaranty success, netting you not just the full health piglet but also 2 control cards in the process)

Mostly because by killing enemies into Piglets you end up with fewer enemies. It's not something he does all the time, agreed, but the option is there and it is a powerful one.

 

His gun is good but never under estimate the potential of 3 Bayou Gremlin's all firing at same target that only care about hitting, not hitting particularly well (like Som'er wants to in order to really get the most out of his "insane" gun). It isn't like he has a great SH stat.

I think that you might be too caught up with his 1st edition mindset - I find him supremely versatile and capable. Just don't try shooting Perdita Choose your targets. Or shoot your own models and blast the enemy. Colette for example doesn't appreciate getting hit by blasts doing four damage. I mean, Sonnia often shoots at her own models to get the blasts rolling and they do less damage than Somer's Thinking Luck ones. Sonnia's blasts do less damage! Of course her Ca is a lot higher than Somer's Sh and she produces more blasts and so on but I firmly stand behind my assessment of Somer's gun being insane

Knowing the importance Som'er plays for his crew's over all success makes him a huge target and from my experiences moving him up field to engage the enemy is usually a very bad idea and counterproductive. Som'er is more of a rear echelon motivator than a front line fighter. Your meta may be different of course.

Between his Df trigger, fair stats, Bayou Two-card and ready access to healing I don't find him squishy at all. I mean, he isn't insanely tough like Seamus or Ramos or Colette but I do think he is among the tougher Masters in the game.

[Gremlin guy]

Ah a backdoor enthusiast.

That's what...

I think you know the rest.

[zFiend]

That's what...

I think you know the rest.

Oh we do.