Joker in hand

[Gabbi]

It seems I'm unable to find an answer in the rulebook atm, sorry.

What happens if a player draws a Joker in his control hand?

May he keep a Red Joker for future use? May he ignore a black one and discard it at the end of turn?

[Vidd]

A joker in the hand is the same as any other card. You can hold onto the Black Joker and discard it at the end of the turn like any other card.

The question is if you want that card to re-enter your deck or if you'd prefer what basically amounts to a single card penalty.

[Adran]

They are exactly like any other card. You can cheat them from your hand if you want, or discard them if required. You can choose to hold discard them in the draw phase as normal.

(I've been known to have to cheat the black joker at times when I've wanted to lose a duel, and had to discard a red joker yesterday as it was the only Mask in han, and I needed to sprint my Terror tot)

[jonahmaul]

Note that if you have the RJ in hand and use it to cheat in a duel your opponent can also still cheat unlike if it is flipped from the top of the deck and prohibits the opposing player cheating.

[Kadeton]

Generally, if I manage to get the Black Joker in hand, I will do everything I can to keep it there forever. Taking it out of circulation removes so much uncertainty that would otherwise throw your best-laid plans out of whack. If I have the Black in hand, it makes me very confident of winning the game.

[decker_cky]

Yeah, I generally discard it turn 5, but before that, it makes the deck much more reliable, particularly when flipping multiple cards.

Red joker I tend to try to save for damage against a key model, but might use it to win or hit a trigger on a key duel. If I can get straight damage and cause severe + weak, something, it's probably dying. 

[Gabbi]

The question is if you want that card to re-enter your deck

 

oh. right.

 

thanks for replies.

[lusciousmccabe]

I'm not hugely inclined towards holding onto the black joker by default. If you draw it and discard it the following turn it's out of circulation for a pretty good chunk of the game already and I'm not sure how the marginal gain of holding it after that is compared to a reduced control hand. In a crew that relies on really swingy moves or has a lot of plus flips/high stats it's might be better to hold onto it. If you've got a bunch of trash activations and/or plenty of moderate TNs to meet then you might be better off with a full control hand and whatever chance of autofailing one flip. 

[Kadeton]

In a crew that relies on really swingy moves or has a lot of plus flips/high stats it's might be better to hold onto it. If you've got a bunch of trash activations and/or plenty of moderate TNs to meet then you might be better off with a full control hand and whatever chance of autofailing one flip. 

 

I find it works at both ends of the spectrum, though that's probably more personality-based. If I'm playing an inherently high-risk crew (like the Viktorias) then having a Black Joker come up at the wrong time can instantly lose me the game, so I'll never let it go back into circulation (I've run through the entire deck twice in a turn many times with the Viks, so it comes back around real fast). If I'm playing a crew where I have a lot of reliable actions, I'll try to optimise those actions for maximum value, which is basically a way of increasing the risk for better reward - if any of those actions unexpectedly fail, the plan starts to fall apart.

 

I guess what I'm saying is I enjoy high-risk play, and the Black Joker messes with that a lot. If you're more the sort of player that likes to minimise exposure to risk, there's a judgement to be made on whether it's worth the increased risk of a failure (which, since you're risk-averse, probably won't be catastrophic) to gain the increased security of an extra card.

[lusciousmccabe]

Ah yeah, if I'm playing Victoria or Lady J I need to know that I can do X damage this turn and the black joker definitely messes with that. When I play Hamelin I feel I need lots of 6s and 8s in hand to get my effects off and missing out on one if them could be a bigger risk than getting black jokered on an important defence flip for example.

Whether those risks actually measure up is complicated to calculate so it's really up to each player to use their best judgement. That's something I like about malifaux, it's not easily solveable so you have to make your own guesses about what improves your odds.

[moxypoo]

Whether those risks actually measure up is complicated to calculate so it's really up to each player to use their best judgement. That's something I like about malifaux, it's not easily solveable so you have to make your own guesses about what improves your odds.

 

I like to keep the Black Joker in my hand until discarding it on turn 5, because I like to remove as much uncertainty from my deck as possible.  For the same reason, I tend to like masters who can draw cards and often use SS to draw extra cards.

 

Playing with the Black Joker in hand vs. in your deck seems like a great topic for a thread!

 

Edit: started here: http://wyrd-games.net/community/topic/109027-how-long-do-you-keep-the-black-joker-in-hand/

[Hateful Darkblack]

I love keeping a Black Joker in hand, because then it won't show up in play.

 

When I get a Red Joker in hand, my goal is to use it on the same turn, so that it will go back into the deck on the next turn. Use it wisely, but don't save it forever or you'll never get use out of it. It's the resource that you get more of when you spend it.

[Myyrä]

Whether those risks actually measure up is complicated to calculate so it's really up to each player to use their best judgement. That's something I like about malifaux, it's not easily solveable so you have to make your own guesses about what improves your odds.

Even if it isn't easily solvable, it still is quite solvable.