Misaki's Real Place In the Game

[Ferossa]

My immediate thought was "If your Master isn't dealing with the enemy's hard models, who is?"

I think you're right, though, and the answer to my question can actually be "Nobody needs to." Misaki, more so than the others, can run a very sneaky crew that works towards schemes while avoiding direct confrontation. If you approach the scenario with a focus on placing schemes as efficiently as possible and not getting stuck into melee then Torakage, Oiran and Ronin will all be very useful and Misaki can run interference on the enemy scheme runners.

 

This is how I like to play Misaki. After the second turn, my opponent completely panicked and ran scared for the rest of the game. It's been three months and he still runs and hides whenever I suggest a rematch.

 

     would recommend.

[The Zinc Lich]

So I was doing some deep thinking about the factional identity of the Outcasts, and it kept leading me back around to Misaki and this discussion we've been having about her role in the faction line up. See, here's the thing: I've been combing over matchups and the more I look at it, the more I realize that, next to the Guild, the Outcasts are, by far the most linear faction.

 

Rathnard hits upon it in his "the Professor Pontificates" in Wyrd Chronicles 10; "the Outcasts don't have many good movement effects". Next to, perhaps, the Guild, we have the most predictable angles of attack. The Vikotrias are very good at jockeying for a good charge angle, but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of their movement is going to be an 8-inch charge, which is subject to all the terrain rules in the game. You can take Scramble to increase the pure range and to avoid penalties for rough terrain, but there are certain terrain setups that just give the Viktoria's trouble, like impassable terrain or enemy models that don't allow a linear path between them.

 

We do have a some incorporeal models, as well as a smattering of Augmented Jumps and Flight, all of which synergizes very well with Know the Terrain. In my opinion, Scout the Field is the single most important upgrade in the Outcast arsenal. Where the Guild has Watchers and the dreaded Austringer to cover their weakness to unusual approach angles, we have models like Ama no Zako and the Strongarm Suit.

 

What Misaki brings to the table is the strength of the Ten Thunders faction: asymmetrical warfare. Misaki can squeeze through gaps that the Viktora's can't with Diving Charge, she can attack around corners Leveticus can't get to with Next Target, and Stalking Bisento and Scout the Field both give her ways of attacking models in places that other models in the faction couldn't dream of engaging. 

 

Torakage are nimble. Although their raw charge distance isn't remarkable, they're impossible to pin down or block with your models, and Smoke and Shadows gives them access to a cross-the-board teleport and, more importantly, LoS denial to prevent the opponent from engaging the more traditional members of your crew on terms that favor them. One good smokebomb has more impact on game tempo than a lot of the things masters do.

 

Misaki covers a weakness the Outcast faction has that isn't really apparent from staring at the cards: our threat ranges are very good, but the way we approach is pretty predictable. We suffer from having a lot of straight lines in our faction, and Misaki can create better lanes for those linear approaches with judicious use of smoke bombs and she can cover a lot of the wonky angles that factions like Neverborn otherwise have free range to approach from.

 

I'm glad this thread got me to sit and think more about Misaki; the more time I spend working with her, the more I appreciate what she brings to the table.

[daniello_s]

A friend of mine run Misaki as an Outcast on the tournament last Sunday and he was doing really great.

He finished 3rd (out of 12 players) just right after my Viks

 

In our game there was a draw 5-5.

 

I think Misaki is very good as an Outcast - give her Stalking Bisento, Oathkeeper and Scout the field, take Yamaziko with Smoke & Shadows, take 2 Tokarage and then whatever you need directly form Outcasts and there you go.

[Patzer]

Great discussion everyone. Was a bit sad that it ended

 

Nearly all my problems with Misaki came up here. Namely, she is a ton of fun, but she just doesn't quite work. She is very, very, close though, and she is even closer in Outcast than in Thunders for me. Survivalist on her is outstanding, as is Oath keeper, Scout the Field, Ronin and Trappers are really good with her, and Student of Conflict is a pretty good totem as is Hodgepodge (which isn't a totem, but a 4ss filler). At the same time, I think that there are some things that just hampers her a little bit too much. Armor being one of them (its ridiculous how a Armor 1 minion can cope with her), since she only have a minimum damage of 2. The finalized version of deadly dance is just too costly for what it does. If you had to ditch a card, or cast a high TN tactical, in order to get it off (and not every time) it would be fine, but I doesn't and it makes me sad.

 

All and all, this wants me to play her again!

[The Zinc Lich]

 The finalized version of deadly dance is just too costly for what it does. If you had to ditch a card, or cast a high TN tactical, in order to get it off (and not every time) it would be fine, but I doesn't and it makes me sad.

 

All and all, this wants me to play her again!

 

Yeah, there aren't very many situations where I've gotten Deadly Dance to work. I have used it when I was close to a corner as a sort of pseudo butterfly jump, but mostly, I find the AP better spent making another Bisento attack. I think the intention might have been to make the *threat* of Misaki pushing out of combat such that people wouldn't even try. I think it might be another case of something the first beta testers overvalued on her card. It's sort of the same story with her Disguise upgrade; no one really wants to take it because Stalking Bisento is so critical to her offensive output.

 

I do sort of want to try out hyper-slippery Misaki with Missingno and the Disguise upgrade. Can't charge her, can't push to her, can't walk to her. I think it'd give the Neverborn, especially, fits.

[katadder]

I often use disguise and it has saved misaki on more than one occasion.

 

for a bit of fun I am going to take a no charge crew with her one time

 

Misaki

-disguise

-survivalist

rusty alyce

-from the aether

-desolate soul

3 x oiran

3 x ronin

 

may swap one of those (plus alyce upgrades) for hans 

[Patzer]

Yeah, there aren't very many situations where I've gotten Deadly Dance to work. I have used it when I was close to a corner as a sort of pseudo butterfly jump, but mostly, I find the AP better spent making another Bisento attack. [...]

 

I do sort of want to try out hyper-slippery Misaki with Missingno and the Disguise upgrade. Can't charge her, can't push to her, can't walk to her. I think it'd give the Neverborn, especially, fits.

I have the same experience more or less. With her Ml attacks you can trigger Next Target and be out of there too. If you got Disguised on her, the net effect is the same. 

 

Hmm.. Interesting. That would cause some headache for a lot of melee crews. The best case scenario would be if she could jojo in and out of that bubble. Still, it would paint quite a target on Missingo.

 

I often use disguise and it has saved misaki on more than one occasion.

 

for a bit of fun I am going to take a no charge crew with her one time

 

Misaki

-disguise

-survivalist

rusty alyce

-from the aether

-desolate soul

3 x oiran

3 x ronin

 

may swap one of those (plus alyce upgrades) for hans 

It is safe to say that you don't like to get charged... Malifaux Child could make your list too!

[katadder]

would work well against some lists, not so well against others. just one of those random lists I am considering (like the 12 gamin list for my arcanists)

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

I've finished my 3 month long play only misaki stint and I feel she's, not her crew, is really really solid. She's a hell of a scalpel. Collect the bounty and assassinate she excels at!

[papa smurf]

Scout the field on Misaki. I understand why. But I think survivalist is just better. Shang or Libby or other healing sorts. Keeps her around.

5 ap Misaki makes the thing she is hitting in happy to say the least.

[Patzer]

I've finished my 3 month long play only misaki stint and I feel she's, not her crew, is really really solid. She's a hell of a scalpel. Collect the bounty and assassinate she excels at!

Cool! Care to elaborate a bit? From the get go you had her as a potential anti-guild, now it seems you would crown her with a more generalist role. About her crew, so you aren't too sold on the Torakage then?

 

Scout the field on Misaki. I understand why. But I think survivalist is just better. Shang or Libby or other healing sorts. Keeps her around.

5 ap Misaki makes the thing she is hitting in happy to say the least.

Can't you go with both? Stalking Bisento, Survivalist, and Scout the Field. Since you mentioned 5 AP Misaki you might prefer an Oath keeper on her. I like that too.

[The Zinc Lich]

I often use disguise and it has saved misaki on more than one occasion.

 

for a bit of fun I am going to take a no charge crew with her one time

 

Misaki

-disguise

-survivalist

rusty alyce

-from the aether

-desolate soul

3 x oiran

3 x ronin

 

may swap one of those (plus alyce upgrades) for hans 

 

I... actually really like this. A lot. There is something to be said for totally removing someone's ability to do something. Most lists will have something that can approach without charging, but it is rare that entire crews can. Against something that is pretty ranged-light, such the Neverborn or Resurrectionists, that could be one hell of a headache.

 

Why not fuse our irritating ideas and trade some of the Oiran for Missingno? I've heard good results from people using Hamelin's no-charge aura with her, it'd work the same here. It is such a shame that the Hidden Agenda upgrade is Ten Thunders only...

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Cool! Care to elaborate a bit? From the get go you had her as a potential anti-guild, now it seems you would crown her with a more generalist role. About her crew, so you aren't too sold on the Torakage then?

 

Sure I'd be glad to!

 

I still think Misaki and her Torakage have a solid anti-ranged defense because of One In the Crowd and the Smoke Bombs (of course let's not forget Misaki's speed). Funny enough, in all my months of trying her out I never played against Guild lol. Just didnt happen. But, I played her against lots of others: Lilith, Kirai, Molly, Mei Fang, Mcabe, Yanlo, ect. Which made me realize that she's generally good against a lot of stuff. 

 

To break it down they way I categorize crews, I find the schemes and strategies that she is best at. Since I run Outcasts competitively I like to know when is best to take them. Misaki is a brilliant cruise missile. I found the best combo of upgrades to be The Stalked Limited, Survivalist, and Oathkeeper. I've tried smoke and mirrors and I've tried Pilfer and I found they are useful but in special situations, I"ll cover those little later.

 

First off, I always took Shang and The Liberian. I tried out the Student but honestly he's just a chore to use sometimes. I found Shang's healing and Rush of Magic to be well worth his points. Putting that together with Survivalist and Misaki is pretty darn hard to kill. I had Lilith put out 20 wounds over 2 turns and because I had that upgrade and model I was able to heal almost back up to full and lived long enough to kill Lilith and run my master away. So this upgrade is a must for outcasts.

 

Misaki gets into the thick of things real quick. I found out that you shouldnt be shy with her. Jump on a flank and start tearing things up. Go for a key model and harass and eliminate then always use the push 4" to make it so your opponent has to further extend away to get her. Don't! Rush her into the middle of the crew though, if she's surrounded she will die. Ideally, you want to keep her threatended by no more than 1 enemy model so that your Hard To Kill really helps, which means keeping Shang nearby. I also take the Liberian for the extra heal because most competent players will ice the totem real fast once they learn what you're plan is.

 

I never found taking the defensive limited upgrade worth it. Misaki really needs that positive for damage to get any work done. Doing weeks of 2 are just not that worthwhile and while she can be very defensively built, if you wanted a master who won't die you should have picked Daw.

 

Oh! And the Schemes and Strats that I was going to mention lol. I think she excels at Collect the Bounty and Headhunter.

Now I've thought about this hard. Because i have Levi. So when I'm at a Tourny and I see these two Strats I usually say Hell Yah to Levi.

But, I think she might actually be better than him in some ways. First, she can kill more a turn than he can. If you follow this order of operations:

1) Turn 1 stack a target.

2) Rush that target.

3) Turn 2 charge that target getting all your positives and killing it (minions best choice for Collect the bounty).

4) Push next target to minion you should be able to kill.

5) stalk him and then use your last AP.

 

This can net you 2 easy kills with one activation. Where as Levi usually needs all 3 AP to kill a single target.

 

Also in the Headhunter she has a great advantage because she can Charge, trigger next target, and use the last AP to pick up the head token.

 

Schemes now!

Assassinate. She rivals Levi for this task. Both can do it very well.

In this case I found Pilfer to be very nice to have. If you think about it, there is no downside for you when you use this trigger. Never spend the AP to do it.

Just swing your big ole stick. Trigger the pilfer action if you can. There's only good outcomes for you: 1) they flip high and you flip low and that clensed the deck for you before your next attack. 2) You flip high and they have to cheat which only makes your assassinate trigger easier to get. 3) You win and get a SS and they lose one. But, I only take this when I know I'll be harassing the enemy leader the whole game. Any game I took the uprade and didnt plan on assassinate or just wanted them dead (like if I play against a ressser I love to harass their masters) they uprade gets wasted cause you might be better off taking out other models.

 

Murder Protege: Same story, she ices single targets so well.

 

But, its not all about murder. This is where her crew comes in. She's good with the following I think.

Breakthrough

Power Ritual

Plant Evidence

 

Here's why. Torakage and Smoke/Bury Upgrade. When these are the schemes. I'll take a Trapper or two. And turn 1 bury 2 Torakage and unbury near the From the Shadows Trappers. Then turn 2 plant my long distance schemes. Best part is, you just saved a ton of AP and can now just going deep your opponent. Plan it right and they should have a hard time finding AP to deal with you and do their schemes because you just finished all yours very early.

 

I think at most you need are 2 Torakage and only if the Schemes/Strats have both killing and schemes placement. Things like Interference I dont think are good for her. Nor guard the stash or Extraction because her crew is not overly hard to take down.

 

Things I do not like!

Yamazuko. She is just not worth it. I only ever took her so I could carry the bury upgrade on someone other than Misaki. And each game I found the old lady was just a waste. A way to easy to kill henchman which a lame attack and only useful for sticking around with her spear up. Just not worth it IMO.

 

Oiron. Hella bad. Sorry. It's true. They are not worth their points when you can take Ronin or Ten Thunder brothers. Im sure someone will disagree with me but hey I've tried and tried and each time I run them I wish i hadn't.

 

Otto. He's ok. He can be really killy. But, he also pretty much is a guarantee dead model. There are so many other options for a hard hitter that survives longer. I'm always happier with Bishop, Strongarm Suit, and or Taylor.

 

 

So that's about the long of it. Hope it was helpful. For this amounts to the collected experience I have. If I think of anything I forget I'll append later. The real trick to this lady is knowing where to put her so you can be really dangerous but not someplace easily reached. With oathkeeper you can charge 20" away. Don't poopoo that! If you stalked a turn early that's 20" charge and 3 Attacks with positive for damage!

 

 

 

Appended!

Assassinate Trigger. A helpful tip here. Wait late turn. Don't come out swinging unless you know you have too. The later you wait to go with Misaki the better chance you have to getting this trigger to work. If they are a resser master however, or a summoner in general, then you can go early. Go after a master and trigger each attack. At the very least you'll steal the cards and stones they need to summon. Also, Ronin and the Hodgepodge are great with her because you can be very aggressive with your stones. Dump them quick and to get that built in crow then get more stones back later to use to damage prevent.

 

Also on stones!

Bring at least 6. I see people take like 3 with her and it's not a great plan I think. Stones are more cards. That's the real power of SS. 6 Stones means you can draw 2 cards each turn and still damage prevent. I see player lured into that positive defense and crow so they dont a  min cache. But, remember Misaki is only def 6 with 12 wounds and no damage reduction. Attack values of 6 or 7 are going to get through that positive flip and without SS to prevent Misaki will get smoked sooner than you think.

 

 

There, thats my collected knowledge! Hope it helps!

[Patzer]

Thanks for the write up E.T.A! Thoroughly enjoyed it. There is quite a lot to digest there, but overall I am really glad you feel that you have found a specific place for Misaki with the Outcasts. I am going to commit to Jack Daw for a while now, but after I am done with him will probably take the trip over to Misaki-island and see what it is like. 

 

Oh, one other question. Did you ever get any mileage out of deadly dance?

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

lol nope! if you dont take the cannot be charged upgrade then deadly dance has no purpose because she's just going to get charged.

plus she should really be using her AP to kill things.

 

downburst is useful and so is the blast attack but only in limited situations. although using downburst is great for getting your models out of combat with enemy models.

 

and dont forget. she can declare charges in combat. which means she can declare a charge on the model she is already in combat with if you want to change her position.

 

Example:

You're within 1" of Lilith and so if you attack her you'll take Black Blood. Since Misaki can declare charges in combat, you can charge Lilith even though you already are in combat. This way you can move to a safer spot 2" away and avoid that BB.

 

cheers!

[BigHammer]

On Oiran, I agree that they have little place in an Outcast crew other than as a Wp buff bubble, but in a 10T Misaki crew with access to free fast and focus from a free upgrade, they're absolutely fantastic.

As for Yamaziko, she's a bit of an odd one. Yes, Df4 and Wd8 is fragile, but its as solid as a lot of other 7 stone models, and her brace, nimble, weak 3, reach 3, impenetrable willpower, bonus against masters and built in blasts make her a super useful henchman in my books.

Her real value in any Misaki crew is contributing to resource drain, but without access to Misdirection to combo with Assassinate, this becomes less important for her in Outcasts than her other qualities.

On stones, spend three of those six on Shang and every two turns he survives you've stoned for cards for free due to Rush of Magic. I know its contentious, but Misaki does just fine with 2 stones. I only bother talking more if I have several henchmen who can also make use of them.

[PolishSausage]

I would love to see misaki with 2 stones try to live from howard or any other Ml6-7 weak of 4's heavy hitter. She needs the stones for initiative as well becuase neither Outcasts nor 10T have a way to change the way initiative flips work( Not Counting Tara).

 

A master is worth 14-16 stones by themselves, then you slap 3-6 worth of stones on upgrades, Y would you skip out on not trying to cap out at max cache?

 

I always tell new players that you WANT to stone for cards turn 2,3,4,5 - 4 stones gone, 1-2 initiatives 2 more stones.

I feel Misakis gimic with no stones is more of a transition between her ronin sacking for stones and her pilfering enemy soulstone users.

 

I do agreee with you on Yamaziko. She is a very solid 7 stone model you can not complain about. Run her nude and she will most often pay for her points. She NEEDs stones for wound prevention tho.  Joe just sucks at playing her.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Haha big talk from Mr. 3rd place ;D

 

I dont like Yuckysucko. For 7 stones I'd rather take a Lieberryin.

[Patzer]

If she is charging into a peacekeeper she is doing it it horribly wrong.

I did that once! Didn't go to well. I burned Oathkeeper, had Stalk on him since the following turn, but even with 5 attacks the bloody thing didn't go down. My opponent had some lucky flips which didn't help. On the last attack I pushed out, and survived the reprisal. Managed to kill it the following turn. Granted, Peacekeeper together with the Valedictorian must be some of the toughest targets around for Misaki.

[E.T.A. Hoffman]

Yah Misaki is not the answer to Peacekeaper. In fact anything hard to wound is bad for her. She really relies on that pos for damage.

Wouldn't take her against ressers honestly.

[BigHammer]

I was going to provide answers to both the Howard problem and the Ressers one, but I remembered I'm not in the 10T forum, and neither Yin nor Kang are available to an outcast Misaki. Mores the pity.

As for the stones thing, as I said, it's a contentious issue. I find Shang a better option than adding three stones to the cache, and I find risky ventures an excellent replacement for more stones too. Smaller cache = more or better models in the crew.

Also, I do usually stick smoke and shadows on Yamaziko, but I usually run her in 10T where I can chuck smoke grenades on as well to stop her getting shot to death. She does work well without any upgrades, though, if you aren't using any last blossom minions.

[Patzer]

Yamaziko seems like one of those models that you just need to click with. I have never managed to make her work at all.

 

I am no fan of smaller cache either. I can go as low as 4 at times, but that is a rare sight. 5-6 is the sweet spot for me. Regardless of master really.

 

Von Schill being the only one I have made work well at 3. On the other hand, I think that you really want a lot of high cards with the Freikorps, to let those nice stats shine, so card filtering is ace there too.

 

Yah Misaki is not the answer to Peacekeaper. In fact anything hard to wound is bad for her. She really relies on that pos for damage.

Wouldn't take her against ressers honestly.

 

Resser seems like her worst match up. Next personal upgrade for Misaki should contain Precise, would solve a lot of problems for her. Nearly all really.

[PolishSausage]

mey fang can get precise for a card and a 0, eat your heart out misaki oO

[Psientologist]

Misaki's Real place in the game:

 

In the bin.

[Patzer]

Misaki's Real place in the game:

 

In the bin.

On top of Mei Feng, who rests dead, drowned in garbage water, a fitting end to the worst master in the game