E.T.A. Hoffman Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 So, I've really been digging into Yan Lo and he's just too...boring. He doesn't really do anything. Its like, he can be super hard to kill. But, he's not that good at much and most of his buffs are super selective and dont really help his ancestor models. I think what would make him much better and more interesting to play would be to give him more ancestors or make ashigaru ancestors. It would be cool because it would make him more like a resser master with the ability to summon more. Plus its unique because unlike all other resser masters his summons only work on models he's already hired. This plus his survivability would make him way cooler. Just my though cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I believe the idea is that all Ancestors are Rare 1 so I doubt that the Ashigaru will become Ancestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Also the beta passed already. So we can only wait for possibly new ancestors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Also the beta passed already. So we can only wait for possibly new ancestors. If it still was Yan Lo's beta, I would suggest other things than making Ashigaru Ancestors, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 If it still was Yan Lo's beta, I would suggest other things than making Ashigaru Ancestors, though. Fair enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Too be fair they've already got 4, at most I could see maybe another somewhere down the line but making unlimited minions Ancestors is a can of worms that needs to stay shut. It'll end up making the game too messy and difficult to track. There are some cool idea's they could use though. Perhaps a Last Blossom Ancestor Enforcer. Some sort of legendary badass Ninja that died decades ago. that'll give Misaki a nice new option seeing as she was robbed (Yes I'm salty about that ) of all her new minion options for Last Blossom back in Wave 2 and it'll give Yan Lo something new and interesting as well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Last blossom is really neglected. Black sheep's got a Henchman ffs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Last blossom is really neglected. Black sheep's got a Henchman ffs. I have no issue with Black Sheep getting more stuff, they were fairly limited before. Wastrels, Pathfinder and Sidir if memory serves, Master Queeg bumps this up a bit but I'd like to see a higher cost minion in the mix, something in the 7-8 range perhaps. Saying that McCabe has tonnes of options outside of Blacksheep / Guardsman so he doesn't really need it. Last Blossom has 2 Henchmen and 2 Minion Choices, that's it. It would be great to see more minions being able to make use out of the Smoke and Shadows upgrade. As far as the Henchmen go you rarely see people take Ototo outside of Misaki crews and Yamaziko barely gets any time in at all. Sure she's cheap but I'd rather hire a Katanaka Sniper over her any day of the week. I understand why the Snipers lost Last Blossom, they were crazy good with Misaki during the Beta but I'll never understand why her old staple the 10T Brothers lost Last Blossom. Going back on topic a little, Yan Lo get's 10T Brothers, Ashigaru, Komainu and Onryo as Retainers and his 4 Ancestors. If anything Yan Lo has enough, Misaki needs some love if anybody is getting new thematic stuff! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Last blossom is really neglected. Black sheep's got a Henchman ffs. Not that I'm complaining about Queeg, but we still could use a 10T Black Sheep. If Yan Lo should be better at summoning, I'd prefer he summon Onryo, so that he can use the Spirit-Adversary interaction a little better. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Not that I'm complaining about Queeg, but we still could use a 10T Black Sheep. If Yan Lo should be better at summoning, I'd prefer he summon Onryo, so that he can use the Spirit-Adversary interaction a little better. Well all the original Black Sheep are dual faction but you're right, I'd like to see a 10T exclusive Black Sheep too. Yan Lo summoning Onryo is just another case of him doing the same thing as other Masters (Nicodem, Kirai and Molly) whilst also being a lot worse at it. Personally I don't think he got as much attention during the beta as he could have. He went up and down like a yoyo and he was always either too good or too bad and in the end they ended up with something incredibly dull. You could take Chi and his Summon off him and he'd basically be a high end Henchman. That's how he feels to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Yan Lo summoning Onryo is just another case of him doing the same thing as other Masters (Nicodem, Kirai and Molly) whilst also being a lot worse at it. Not necessarily. He could a. be better at summoning Onryo, and b. he can turn models into Spirits which the others cannnot. Saying summoning makes them similar is really not true, as the other Masters all summon and aren't similar at all. But as it's not Yan Lo's beta, I really don't see much point in arguing about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I have no issue with Black Sheep getting more stuff, they were fairly limited before. Wastrels, Pathfinder and Sidir if memory serves, Master Queeg bumps this up a bit but I'd like to see a higher cost minion in the mix, something in the 7-8 range perhaps. Saying that McCabe has tonnes of options outside of Blacksheep / Guardsman so he doesn't really need it. Going back on topic a little, Yan Lo get's 10T Brothers, Ashigaru, Komainu and Onryo as Retainers and his 4 Ancestors. If anything Yan Lo has enough, Misaki needs some love if anybody is getting new thematic stuff! Guild Pathfinder don't have Black Sheep, they have Guardsman. Ten Thunders Brother don't have Retainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Guild Pathfinder don't have Black Sheep, they have Guardsman. Ten Thunders Brother don't have Retainer. Well bugger me you are right! I know at one point the 10T Brothers did, I've never used them myself. Again, I don't see why these traits were removed. Also my point still stands. Screw Yan Lo, give Misaki some love! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 TT bro's never had retainer? They had last blossom? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 TT bro's never had retainer? They had last blossom? I'm sure they did at one point, obviously not anymore. I'm fairly certain that originally there were 2 10T and 2 Resser Retainers. But seemingly there is only 1 10T Retainer now. I believe 10T Brothers were Retainers back in the Beta at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'm sure they did at one point, obviously not anymore. I'm fairly certain that originally there were 2 10T and 2 Resser Retainers. But seemingly there is only 1 10T Retainer now. I believe 10T Brothers were Retainers back in the Beta at some point. Well I could very well be wrong on this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I'm sure they did at one point, obviously not anymore. I'm fairly certain that originally there were 2 10T and 2 Resser Retainers. But seemingly there is only 1 10T Retainer now. I believe 10T Brothers were Retainers back in the Beta at some point.I just quickly checked three wave 2 beta files (I had them on hand and so it only took something like a bit over a minute to search them) and in one they were Last Blossom (in the 11-12-13 file) and in the other two neither. I don't think that they were Retainers as that doesn't really fit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Not to worry, it doesn't really matter now anyway, those beta days are done. Hopefully some new goodies will come out to flesh out these crews in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Cheers Math! MD: face! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lo Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Adding new models he can summon/resurrect or giving Ancestor to an older model seems like something Wyrd is being careful about with other masters, so pretty doubtful, and honestly, it doesn't really spice Yan Lo himself up. I think mostly people are okay with his specific resurrect thing, it's thematic, it works. But when it comes time to activate Yan Lo himself, people don't get the rush, the impending doom feeling of activating most other masters. If they'd ever do something, the only way I see him being zazzed up would be similar to what they've done with other models.. add in upgrades. With Yan that's potentially even easier, as he has both normal upgrades and Ascendant upgrades specific to him, and an interesting mechanic to add them already there. Random ideas: Light Ascendant: Built in trigger on Spirit Barrage: After success, take this attack again on a model not yet hit by Spirit Barrage during this action chain that is within 4" of this target. This trigger can only fire once For each pt of Chi Yan has, up to max 3 . Can only gain 1pt of chi total from this chain of attacks. Void Ascendant: (1) Walk the Path: Bury target enemy that fails TN 11+(Chi up to 3) Horror Duel until beginning of next turn. Unbury in their deployment zone. (2) The Void Stares Back: Target 1 enemy for each Chi up to 3. Each takes a TN 14 Horror Duel; slow if succeed, Paralyze if failed. Costs 1 chi per target to cast. Dust Ascendant: Friendly Spirits within 1" gain +1 damage to weak damage attacks. Friendly non-spirits within 1" gain +1 Df. Stone Ascendant: (1) For the rest of the turn, Ancestors within 4" may place a scheme marker in base contact after scoring severe damage. Lightning Strike (non Ascendant upgrade): Yan Lo may also target and move enemy Scheme Markers like enemy models while using Lightning Dance. He's good, I think he's just not fully baked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 Well I agree that the last blossoms are pretty thinned out. But, back to topic. Yan Lo just doesn't have any really exciting purpose in the game. Sure he's hard to kill but then what? His offense if very much meh. He can give are armor 2 but at the cost of his precious chi. Its really good but pretty situational, you won't probably do it every turn. Lightening dance is ok but its really an attack that's meant to get enemy models into combat with friendly without putting the friendly in harms way. But, the models that he brings dont really need his kind of support. Izamu and Yin for example are already pretty darn hard to kill. Plus those are the only models he can resummon. So again, its like yanlos abilities just compoundly make his already hard to kill models harder to kill. Its not bad but its just kind of boring. I think if he had access to a decent melee 6 attack it would probably be fine. or if he support his crew in other ways. Giving out actions or movement or something. And fury of the yomi isn't that great. Because it only nets 1 extra ap. Sure, it could be really good if you needed it at the right moment. But that just it, all of his abilities seem just very situational. I think more summoning could help or better crew buffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirial Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 That's why I said: Summoning Onryo. Giving Adversary to enemies, then make someone a Spirit. It's a universal buff. He doesn't need more Ancestors for that, and it's nothing any other Resser Master can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icemyn Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I had/have so many problems with Yan Lo, many of which I expressed in the beta. Some of my suggestions were taken, like the existing wording of harvest Chi, while others were ignored, moving brutal Khakkhara to bone ascendent for example. I think one of Yan Lo's biggest problems in the beta was he had no template to draw from. What he is trying to do is very different from other masters. What I mean by this is that summoner/support/damage masters had Wave 1 templates to draw from regarding power level. Yan Lo and more obviously Ironsides did not. I personally believe that both of these masters were designed with worst case scenarios in mind. I.E. What if Yan Lo always has Chi+3 or Ironsides always has Adrenaline available. Because of this when Yan Lo is sitting at Chi+3 he is on par with other masters and what they can do not ahead of them. Instead of being a frail old man becoming a Juggernaut he starts off as Pinnochio and eventually becomes a real boy. Other masters accomplish schemes establish a board position and Yan Lo tries to become playable. It just doesn't work. On the topic I like the idea of more ancestors for him, but I don't think that is what he needs. Maybe if Reliquary said that he could summon any friendly model killed or sacrificed this game it would help him. It would definitely give him something to do and make his playstyle so much more interesting. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted April 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 That's more to the point I'm looking for. I like the idea that as a unique summoner, he only summons models back that he already paid for. It supports his fluff of being a return from the dead kind of guy. But, yeah with 3 chi he is still only ok. Still not much to do though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted April 22, 2015 Report Share Posted April 22, 2015 I think Yan Lo at some point may earn himself a bonus upgrade to add a new twist to his playstyle (maybe something to boost the spirit approach with him?). Last Blossom got cuddled in terms of choice since smoke and shadows was too good. Fuhatsu not being last blossom was the real miss in terms of models that could have used the characteristic (he would have also been the perfect model to hold both Hidden Agenda and Smoke and Shadows). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.