Melee at multiple heights

[asrian]

I had this situation happen today in a game and honestly not sure how it's resolved.

We had a Ht 3 piece of terrain. On top was The Captain with his 3 , and below was a Waldgeist in cover with his 4 melee. 

The question that came up was, how, if at all, does elevation impede these two models from swinging at each other. Both had LoS to each other (so Vantage wasn't an issue), and both were in melee range of each other, but could they actually swing at each other?

[Dirial]

If the lower model is higher than the elevation difference, the difference gets ignored. If not, it simply gets added to the distance they are in. In your above example, assuming the lower model is not more than 1" away from a top-down perspective, they would be engaged, but only the Waldgeist could attack.

 

Page 44, big rulebook, Engagement Elevation shout-out box.

[Adran]

If the bottom model has a Ht that is less than the Ht of the object, then the Ht of the object is taken into account when calculating engagement range.

So in your picture, if the Waldegiest (Ht2) is on the ground, he uses 3 of his 4" engagement range on the ht difference, so needs to be within 1".  

[asrian]

Either of you fine gents care to point to a page number for the Ht and terrain being calculated for that? I don't have my book on me at the moment and plan to read over it again once I do.

[Dirial]

Either of you fine gents care to point to a page number for the Ht and terrain being calculated for that? I don't have my book on me at the moment and plan to read over it again once I do.

 

Edited it in above: p. 44.

[Adran]

I stole my answer from the last time we had the question in the rules forum, so Diral wins. Again.

[asrian]

Say top down perspective they were base to base. Captain is on the lip of the ledge, waldgeist is directly beside him but 3" lower down due to the Ht of the building. The captain has a 3  . Would he be able to reach the waldgeist, in that specific situation? I'm assuming he would, but only under that exact circumstance (or if the Ht was lower).

[asrian]

And TY both btw. I've played this game for nearly a year, and this is honestly the first time this situation has come up. It took me by surprise.

[Dirial]

Say top down perspective they were base to base. Captain is on the lip of the ledge, waldgeist is directly beside him but 3" lower down due to the Ht of the building. The captain has a 3  . Would he be able to reach the waldgeist, in that specific situation? I'm assuming he would, but only under that exact circumstance (or if the Ht was lower).

 

You are correct.

 

I stole my answer from the last time we had the question in the rules forum, so Diral wins. Again.

 

You are also correct. 

[jonahmaul]

Say top down perspective they were base to base. Captain is on the lip of the ledge, waldgeist is directly beside him but 3" lower down due to the Ht of the building. The captain has a 3  . Would he be able to reach the waldgeist, in that specific situation? I'm assuming he would, but only under that exact circumstance (or if the Ht was lower).

Yes, they would need to be base to base from the top down view.

 

edit - grrre, Dirial'd!

[dgraz]

 

edit - grrre, Dirial'd!

Lol.......he's fast. 

 

Not so great for his significant other though..............teehee.

[Dirial]

Lol.......he's fast. 

 

Not so great for his significant other though..............teehee.

 

Now, who is telling bad jokes?

[asrian]

edit - grrre, Dirial'd!

 

[jonahmaul]

Now, who is telling bad jokes?

'joke'?

[malekhant]

Really strange rules on this, but it is as written.

[malekhant]

Really strange rules on this, but it is as written.

[dgraz]

Now, who is telling bad jokes?

 

 

'joke'?

and done.

[CapnBloodbeard]

If the bottom model has a Ht that is less than the Ht of the object, then the Ht of the object is taken into account when calculating engagement range.

So in your picture, if the Waldegiest (Ht2) is on the ground, he uses 3 of his 4" engagement range on the ht difference, so needs to be within 1".  

Wouldn't he only use 1" of his melee range?

2" high, object is 3" high, both are right on the edge.

 

Couldn't that also mean the captain could be up to 3" away from the edge and still be attacked by the Wadgeist?

[Ausplosions]

You add the height of the terrain to the horizontal distance between them. Unless the model on the LOWER elevation has a height Greater than the Ht of the terrain.

[Ausplosions]

Odd post removed.

[J_D]

Wouldn't he only use 1" of his melee range?

2" high, object is 3" high, both are right on the edge.

 

Couldn't that also mean the captain could be up to 3" away from the edge and still be attacked by the Wadgeist?

 

Ht stat only comes in to play at the start, eg:

Is lower models Ht greater than object Ht?

Yes - ignore object Ht and just measure   range top down

No - ignore model Ht, use Ht of object + top down distance between models.

 

I find this an easy way to think of it, and it took me a while to work it out. Because all measuring is done top down, there is no adding  range to Ht, or anything like that.

[CapnBloodbeard]

You add the height of the terrain to the horizontal distance between them. Unless the model on the LOWER elevation has a height Greater than the Ht of the terrain.

Doesn't the height of the lower model come into consideration though?

[Dirial]

Doesn't the height of the lower model come into consideration though?

Yes, at the start. But it's less the the Ht difference, thus the difference gets added.

[jonahmaul]

Doesn't the height of the lower model come into consideration though?

Only if the model is taller than the elevation, otherwise the height it irrelevant.

 

Yes, at the start. But it's less the the Ht difference, thus the difference gets added.

I think this is somewhat confusing.  CapnBloodbeard is suggesting that only the difference should get added (so a Ht2 model attacking a Ht3 elevation should only need 1" Ml range).  Though this makes thematic sense this isn't how it works.

[Dirial]

I think this is somewhat confusing.  CapnBloodbeard is suggesting that only the difference should get added (so a Ht2 model attacking a Ht3 elevation should only need 1" Ml range).  Though this makes thematic sense this isn't how it works.

 

Ah, okay. I meant the Ht difference between the elevation levels the models are standing on.

 

Only if the model is taller than the elevation, otherwise the height it irrelevant.

 

Therefore, this is correct.

[katadder]

its really bizarre that if fighting from higher he gets to punch horizontally but if hes slightly smaller then he effectively counts as swinging from his feet. I know I could certainly reach someone on a 6 foot high high wall with my hands but not with my feet.