DocSchlock Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I have absolutely no idea who to take in HH with Guild. Francisco seems great, but 8 wounds and Df 5, even with Wade In, is pretty bad. Ryle seems good, but Sh5 is meh. Dashel with 3 Riflemen is good if boring and incredibly crumbly in melee (I fully expect to see a Nekima-lead crew). The Judge is pretty average. Sidir seems like my best choice, esp against a crew with Belles. Samael is pretty squishy. What have you guys and gals run for Guild Henchman Hardcore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I ran Ryle -- 3 Pool +Badge of Office [2] +Expert Sleuth [1] Death Marshal [6] Francisco Ortega [8] +Lead Lined Coat [2] +Wade In [1] awhile back and found it pretty good. While Ryle is only SH5, he does get built in positives and with Franciso and Badge of Office can be really tanky. Death Marshall's I found were pretty great in this format Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I like The Judge. He's durable, hits hard and aids in movement. He isn't flashy in any way, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 I ran Ryle -- 3 Pool +Badge of Office [2] +Expert Sleuth [1] Death Marshal [6] Francisco Ortega [8] +Lead Lined Coat [2] +Wade In [1] awhile back and found it pretty good. While Ryle is only SH5, he does get built in positives and with Franciso and Badge of Office can be really tanky. Death Marshall's I found were pretty great in this format While I like the idea, you are one model short. I was under the impression that Henchman Hardcore had to be exactly 4 models. Guild is not exactly going to set the world on fire with its Henchman Hardcore options. Hard control elements and big, burly bruisers seem to rule the format, and that is not exactly the Guild's wheelhouse. As much as I hate to add to the multitude of voices singing the praises of Francisco, he is an incredibly solid model that brings a disproportionate amount of survivability to the table (for whoever he is near enough by to buff, that is). Dashel and Sidir become 7/8 and Ryle becomes 6/8 while under the effect of El Mayor, which makes a *big difference* when you have to go toe to toe with bruisers from other factions. Also, keep in mind that, while the leader does have to do some heavy lifting in a list, the Guild can make up ground by bringing strong minions. No matter how buff Nekima is, if she is being brought to Henchman Hardcore, she either has 0 SS, or the rest of the list is going to be a second henchman, an Alp, and a 4-point scheme runner. My personal favorite Guild HMHC lists are: Ryle Francisco -Wade in -Diestro Watcher Brutal Effigy or, if you have a beef with Francisco, Ryle -Tesselating Magnet Hunter Hunter Watcher Ryle's defenses might be low, but he does have 1-3 armor, depending on triggers, and a decent heal, which is plenty survivable, especially with Francisco backing him up. If you want to skip the Ortega, Hunters are a great buy for Hardcore; never underestimate the power of Slow in a game with so few AP. The watcher is also a great use of 4 points if there is a scheme that actually requires running, but you can swap it out for Brutal, if you want. My next project, when I get the models for it, is going to be: Dashel -Badge of Office or Lead Lined Coat Francisco Rifleman Rifleman It will certainly bring the killing power and survivability, though I wouldn't bring this in a game where I flipped a bunch of running schemes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 The watcher is also a great use of 4 points if there is a scheme that actually requires running, but you can swap it out for Brutal, if you want.Isn't henchman hardcore usually played with assassinate as the only scheme and turf war as strategy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 Different 20ss games are marketed as Hardcore with different houserules. These houserules greatly affect Crew build. Hardcore that I see as default (20ss, hire exactly four models, Turf War/Assassinate, no Summoning, no soulstones over cache) favors models that are durable for their cost, and doesn't much care about speed. I've seen very nasty Francisco-led crews (usually with The Judge and maybe an Austringer and another Minon), and some really nice Ryle-based crews (often with Witchling Stalkers and maybe a big Executioner or something.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsteelrose Posted January 12, 2015 Report Share Posted January 12, 2015 This is usually what I take: Francisco Ortega -- 7 Pool +Wade In [1] Nino Ortega [7] Pistolero De Latigo [5] Pistolero De Latigo [5] It has a small problem in that Francisco doesn't get his Diestro upgrade. This is how I might solve it. Francisco Ortega -- 5 Pool +Diestro [3] +Wade In [1] Pistolero De Latigo [5] Pistolero De Latigo [5] Pistolero De Latigo [5] Another great build would be this Francisco Ortega -- 5 Pool +Diestro [3] +Wade In [1] Death Marshal [6] Pistolero De Latigo [5] Witchling Stalker [5] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrible_Knowledge Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 ive tried Fransisco with wade in, santiago and 2 death marshalls with success. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizuriel Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 While I like the idea, you are one model short. I was under the impression that Henchman Hardcore had to be exactly 4 models. When I played it was up to 4 models, you didn't get any extra SS and no summoning. Strat was turf war and for Schemes we had 3 and could pick 1 (Assassinate, Vendetta and Murder Protégé). If I had to get 1 more model I would drop the upgrades on Ryle and take the Govonor's Proxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted January 13, 2015 Report Share Posted January 13, 2015 Isn't henchman hardcore usually played with assassinate as the only scheme and turf war as strategy? In my local shop, it is always Turf War and Assassinate replaces Line in the Sand as the scheme that is always available, but other than that, it works as per a normal game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urgol Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 20ss Hardcore may include just one Henchmen or can multiple henchmen be included and one is the "leader"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I've had some success with this The Judge -- 4 Pool +Badge of Office [2] Death Marshal [6] Death Marshal [6] Guild Austringer [6] Could also go with this though The Judge -- 5 Pool +Badge of Office [2] Death Marshal [6] Guild Austringer [6] Witchling Stalker [5] Traditionally Hardcore is 4 models (no more, no less) with no summoning, 1 Henchman and 3 other models. At least that's how I've always played it. The Judge is a solid all round model and with his defenses, damage output and (0) action he's probably our best bet although Sidir is also a very strong contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urgol Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I am organizing a game day this weekend in our gaming club. This format really looks like dead fun. Also should be excellent for demo games or intro games. Keeps abilities to a minimum and still you get a good feeling of the game. Yes, the judge is a solid choice. Death marshals is great for some fishing Witchling stalkers are nice too. I will try Cisco -Diestro Santiago Pistolero Pistolero Judge Death marshal Witchling Stalker Austinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted February 2, 2015 Report Share Posted February 2, 2015 I am organizing a game day this weekend in our gaming club. This format really looks like dead fun. Also should be excellent for demo games or intro games. Keeps abilities to a minimum and still you get a good feeling of the game. Yes, the judge is a solid choice. Death marshals is great for some fishing Witchling stalkers are nice too. I will try Cisco -Diestro Santiago Pistolero Pistolero Judge Death marshal Witchling Stalker Austinger Both lists look pretty cool. The most effective list I ever came up with was the following for an Outcast crew. Taelor -- 3 Pool Freikorps Librarian [7] +Oath Keeper [1] Johan [6] Ronin [6] This list was untouchable when I last used it at my old club. Took on every crew and never lost a single model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsteelrose Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 20ss Hardcore may include just one Henchmen or can multiple henchmen be included and one is the "leader"? It doesn't say anything about taking more than one henchman, so I guess you could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowNot2Wargame Posted February 6, 2015 Report Share Posted February 6, 2015 When I have played it I have taken:- A ) franc with wade in, Abuela, santiago, pistolero. Sometime drop wade in and take hair trigger on either abs or Santo. B ) Hopkins with lead line coat, witchling handler, 2x Witchling stalkers. Prefer a) really cause I just love the Ortega's in truth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urgol Posted February 8, 2015 Report Share Posted February 8, 2015 Yesterday I played my first game of 20ss hardcore, I like it. Quick and dirty instant fun. Played Cisco with Wade in and Office Badge, 2 Pistoleros and Santo. Since you have 5ss pool, I stoned for two addition cards on turn two, charge with Cisco and then things got pretty nasty pretty quick. Popped Finesse, stoned for prevention, engaged with the enemy henchman and then won the initiative. With a couple of high cards in my hand and Ml7, then Red Joker happened on with : on attack. 9 damage and my opponent conceded. The scales were tipped in my favor. As already said, this format would be the best to get people into the game. Quick, dead fun and less abilities to worry about and more to focus on the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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