Masters for Recon and Interferance

[Patzer]

What master(s) are in general using for: Reconnoitre and Interference?

[zFiend]

Nicodem is the king of Reconnoiter.  

[Patzer]

Nicodem is the king of Reconnoiter.

That filthy old man is not a Neverborn!

[zFiend]

I really need to start reading the goddamn topics.. 

 

Okay then. Dreamer!  From an old man to a small boy in a second.

[Myyrä]

Lucius is a good choice too. He likes minions, so it doesn't hurt him to bring a lot of models. He can also bring models with long range attacks that can be more easily used against your opponent from a table quarter of your choosing. Extra movement for other models outside their activations helps too.

[Dante83]

Recently I've been thinking about Lynch for interference.

Depleted get positive flips to disengage and their Ml goes up to 5, they are also hard to wound and kill (and at only 4 stones). This I imagine will set them up nicely for keeping enemy models engaged.

Beckoners have lure/push shenanigans which could also help with engaging enemies and disengaging themselves/friendly models.

Huggy has a 3" engagement range. I appreciate this is a bit double edged but used carefully could be epic.

I have yet to play interference but these are my early thoughts.

[asrian]

Lynch, Lilith, Dreamer, Zoraida. Those would be my go-to's for those Strats

[The Godlyness]

Dreamer, Collodi. and Lucius, depending what i am feeling or rather what faction i am against.

[Kadeton]

Nicodem is the king of Reconnoiter.

 

Even without restricting to Neverborn only, I'd say Dreamer is better at Recon than Nico. It's a pretty close contest, though.

[The Godlyness]

One needs corpses and cards. One needs cards

[Nical]

The logic is Simple. More non-Peon models in table Quarter = VP in these strategies. 

So If a crew has more non-Peon models than opponents, the crew can get advantage. 

Now see some masters that I take for these strategies. 

 

Collodi

Useful but limited. So I think about other things(Opponent's Factions, Schemes.... etc) to take Collodi for these strategies.

 

Minion pool - Collodi's low cost minion pool is great. He have Marionettes(3ss) & Effigies(4ss) and other neverborn low cost minions. 

AP Control - Pull the Strings can move Opponent's models for VP denial and My will can move Collodi's minion for VP. 

 

Limited Summoning - Collodi's summoning is not useful to add a new model, so It usually use to recycle his puppets. It needs scrap marker.   

Limited Control Range - Collodi's buff range is only 6", so some models sometimes can't get his buffs.   

 

Lucius 

Lucius usually be better as Guild master. In these Strategy, He is better as Guild master, too. 

 

Guild Models - Hound is cheap minion, Warden can push opponent's model. Austringer can hold table quarter more easily. 

Good Control Range - Issue Command's Range become 14" for Guardsman or mimic. 

 

No Summoning - If your opponent's crew has more models, you must think about how to kill or engage opponent's models. 

Limited Denial - Lucius and Guardsmen don't have 'good' denial. So you want to deny opponents, take other model for that.  

 

Dreamer 

Dreamer has good summoning and useful buffs. I agree that dreamer is our best master for these strategy (Ignore about other things).  

 

Good Summoning - Dreamer can summon alps(for engagement), and other nightmare non-peons, even Teddy (for VP)

Good Denial - Think about Coppelius(Horror duel) or Lilitu(4" Melee).  

 

Limited Control Range - Empty Night is just 6" range action, but it is not big problem. Because it is enough to buff models in frontline.  

Limited Model Pool(A little) - Summoning is Powerful, but Many Nightmare non-peons have "Rare x". It isn't big problem like control Range.  

[Patzer]

Seems like most are high on the Lucius, Dreamer, and Collodi trio. I am not surprised! 

 

Dante83, I liked your point on the Depleted! Their tarpitiness alongside a unburying Huggy could be pretty good for tying up a lot of models.

[Myyrä]

Lucius 

Lucius usually be better as Guild master. In these Strategy, He is better as Guild master, too. 

 

Guild Models - Hound is cheap minion, Warden can push opponent's model. Austringer can hold table quarter more easily. 

Good Control Range - Issue Command's Range become 14" for Guardsman or mimic. 

 

No Summoning - If your opponent's crew has more models, you must think about how to kill or engage opponent's models. 

Limited Denial - Lucius and Guardsmen don't have 'good' denial. So you want to deny opponents, take other model for that.

I would disagree on Lucius being better as a Guild master. I would say he is at least as good or better as Neverborn, but he really likes his Guardsmen so you should always bring 4.

I also don't know what you mean by good denial, but if you mean scheme denial, Lucius is definitely one of the best masters in game for that, thanks to his upgrades that have quite nifty scheme marker interactions.

[Nical]

I would disagree on Lucius being better as a Guild master. I would say he is at least as good or better as Neverborn, but he really likes his Guardsmen so you should always bring 4.

I also don't know what you mean by good denial, but if you mean scheme denial, Lucius is definitely one of the best masters in game for that, thanks to his upgrades that have quite nifty scheme marker interactions.

 

Lucius' Scheme Denials are very good, but we talk about 'some strategies' in this thread. So I ignore them.

So I just mean denial 'for these strategies(= against models).' Something like Horror to paralyze, Slow to lose AP and so on. 

I think 'His' Denials are good for Scheme, but they aren't useful for these. 

 

I think Lucius 'usually' be better as Guild master because his guardsmen-centric style can get more advantages in guild. 

In guild, Lucius can give Accomplice to Guardsmen (by Watch Your Back) and he can take more guardsmen.

Additionally, He can take models like witchling stalker(to remove condition) to help guardsmen. 

Neverborn's melee dealing and denial are very helpful, too. But Lucius can take mimic models for these things in guild.  

But I think Lucius is more enjoyable in Neverborn, So I hardly play him as guild master. 

[Joel]

for interference, I'd say whichever master works best with waldgeist and depleted - I say these models as they are great to drop into a group of enemy models and reduce the amount of models they have for interefence.  They are both hard to drop easily.

 

so, who works best at getting these models where they need to go?

 

Zoraida - obeys (walking models in or our of positions as required) and in the case of waldgeist, from the shadows potential shouldn't be overlooked

 

Lilith - tangle shadows.  send them a depleted and kill one of their models while your at it.

 

Dreamer - can bring the numbers and keep bringing the numbers to flood quarters

[Myyrä]

so, who works best at getting these models where they need to go?

Lucius

[Joel]

Not really, not unless he is already there

[Myyrä]

Not really, not unless he is already there

Well he is at least clearly better than Zoraida.

[Patzer]

Zoraida - obeys (walking models in or our of positions as required) and in the case of waldgeist, from the shadows potential shouldn't be overlooked

 

Lilith - tangle shadows.  send them a depleted and kill one of their models while your at it.

 

Lilith paired with Juju can bring the Waldegeist upfield too. Depleted slingshot is simply gold! Lilith seems pretty solid in the strat, hands down.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I really need to start reading the goddamn topics.. 

 

Okay then. Dreamer!  From an old man to a small boy in a second.

 

My new headcanon: When Nicodem falls asleep, he dreams that he's a little boy again, and also a Neverborn, and that's who The Dreamer is.

[Myyrä]

My new headcanon: When Nicodem falls asleep, he dreams that he's a little boy again, and also a Neverborn, and that's who The Dreamer is.

Nicodem does look like a guy who dreams of little boys, if you catch my meaning.

[Joel]

Well he is at least clearly better than Zoraida.

I don't necessarlity agree, due to things like from the shadows upgrade she can take with swampfiends - also, her obey power is more flexible. I think it's more a matter of style of the player using them, rather than a straight forward better or worse scenario.

[Mastershake]

If it were just about having more dudes than the other guy, I'd be inclined to agree on having summoners more, but the most noteworthy feature of Recon is the 12" circle in the middle of the table that prevents models from counting.

 

I've seen large crews that all had buffs that meant staying in a fairly compact area fail miserably at Recon while small crews that had a greater capacity to split up, easily scored points.  It's not about numbers, you could easily have 20 models, but if 19 are in the exclusion bubble/on the line between areas/in the same quarter, it doesn't matter.  Crews that can split up without losing their effectiveness or crews with a good ranged component that can engage from whatever quarter they need to tend to be stronger than crews that just pack on the models.

[Patzer]

I don't necessarlity agree, due to things like from the shadows upgrade she can take with swampfiends - also, her obey power is more flexible. I think it's more a matter of style of the player using them, rather than a straight forward better or worse scenario.

 

Sensible argument

 

If it were just about having more dudes than the other guy, I'd be inclined to agree on having summoners more, but the most noteworthy feature of Recon is the 12" circle in the middle of the table that prevents models from counting.

 

I've seen large crews that all had buffs that meant staying in a fairly compact area fail miserably at Recon while small crews that had a greater capacity to split up, easily scored points.  It's not about numbers, you could easily have 20 models, but if 19 are in the exclusion bubble/on the line between areas/in the same quarter, it doesn't matter.  Crews that can split up without losing their effectiveness or crews with a good ranged component that can engage from whatever quarter they need to tend to be stronger than crews that just pack on the models.

 

This is a very important and often overlooked part of these strategies. That 12" bubble is very useful for a number of reasons. You can force enemy models into it, thus keeping them from counting for scores. Hide your own models (who can set up for a Deliver the Message run, etc) since the opposing player rarely wants to go chasing after models in the no-scoring zone. Granted it hinders your own models from scoring too, but its a fairly good tactic if you have a runner or assassin to spare from scoring that turn. Just to name a couple.

 

On the point of having synergistic/ close-by-crews vs crews consisting of independent models, I also often find that the latter is often very overlooked! Summoners and crews who thrives in staying close can often be forced into though spots by faster independent crews who can roam freely on the board.

[The Godlyness]

When I first read 12" bubble I was like wtf? That's wrong it's only 6" from the center. Then I did math. But saying 12" looks hellavu lot bigger than just 6" from the center.

Don't scare me like thst.