When do YOU hire a monk of the low river?

[Abbazabba]

I keep trying to see the best in these little guys, but am at something of a loss for when one would confidently hire one or more of these guys. Are there certain crews that they work best in, or factions they are particularly effective against? When your up against a crew that is not condition focused, do you use them as more of tar pits, or scheme runners? What about synergies? When do you build a crew not knowing what your opponent is taking and say "a monk of the low river is just what I need?" Please, let the theorizing and actual experiences flow!

[scarlett fever]

I've had the most use with McCabe.

I usually have plenty of Ca action models in my McCabe crew (flanking either side of a Serpent can be worthwhile), I can pass them the Sabre when they need to apply force (plus they get an additonal focus when they take a focus action), and for 4 points they can be a reasonable speedbump.

They allow me to get a few more models on the table and last longer than Guild Hounds.

[The Zinc Lich]

Considering that the only other 4-stone models in the TT arsenal right now are Shadow Effigy, Wastrels, and Tengu, I can see a few times that I would take a LRM. Shadow is pretty tough, but Wastrels and Tengu definitely aren't. If I have a list full of ranged power (like Shenlong's Sniper Squad), they work great as a forward element; tough enough that they can't be removed trivially by an opponent trying to engage your guns, yet cheap enough that you can afford all the toys you want to bring.

 

I also wouldn't underestimate the usability of condition removal on a 4-stone model. If the opponent declares Ressurectionists and you don't have the free space for Chiaki, even a single monk can make a big difference if the enemy puts down McMourning or the Hanged. If they don't, well, the LRM is a solid scheme runner that didn't cost you much to bring with you.

[SpiralngCadavr]

I've had the most use with McCabe.

I usually have plenty of Ca action models in my McCabe crew (flanking either side of a Serpent can be worthwhile), I can pass them the Sabre when they need to apply force (plus they get an additonal focus when they take a focus action), and for 4 points they can be a reasonable speedbump.

They allow me to get a few more models on the table and last longer than Guild Hounds.

Cool way around their lack of offense, I like it!

[Hateful Darkblack]

I don't play ten thunders often so the last time i played them was a proxy before the model came out. They were great.

Reasonably fast super cheap objective grabber. They tarpit will (durable for the price and great at disengaging strikes.) Condition removal probably comes up no more than once or twice a game but it can turn the tide of the game when it does.

Once you get used to the fact that they don't do damage (outside of McCabe loaning out a saber) they are great models.

[Abbazabba]

Agreed! Thanks for the insights, folks! Regarding McMorning I usually don't have the chance to clear conditions prior to the dreaded expunge, but at least it would force him to get less mileage out of it! Also nice that he can't turn LRM's into constructs since they're immune to poison altogether!

[Abbazabba]

The dreaded double post... Sorry!

[asrian]

Agreed! Thanks for the insights, folks! Regarding McMorning I usually don't have the chance to clear conditions prior to the dreaded expunge, but at least it would force him to get less mileage out of it! Also nice that he can't turn LRM's into constructs since they're immune to poison altogether!

Food for thought, Abbazabba... the Low River Monk can only clear conditions from 1" away with his ML attack, it reads "TARGET removes condition". You can remove an enemy's condition. Instead of waiting for McMourning to swap poison from a Flesh Construct or Guild Autopsy onto your guy, move your Monk in their face and remove the poison from them directly. Most people don't typically expect you to start clearing their model's conditions rather than your own.

[scarlett fever]

I've certainly used the Monks condition removal but it's pretty situational unless you bring more than one. The fact that it's a 1" melee range means they're easily tied up in the wrong area unless you're shadowing a key model.

Whenever I've left out Chiaki and faced a heavy condition opponent I've lost out on VP because of it.

 

But I think Zinc Lich has it, they fufill a key role when you compare them to our other 4 point options.

[DeleteAccount]

I have a hard time deciding to reach for them. If I have 8 SS, Tengu are amazing in pairs and if I only have 4 SS left, the Shadow Effigy does so much for scheme play as well. I do see them as condition control pieces, but the lack of a Cg stat really annoys me since their removal threat is pretty low, specially when you have to account for terrain and other models. They are ok pieces, but I just tend to get more out of others. Wastlers are the ones I can't for the life of me figure out though, I have no idea what they are supposed to do outside of a McCabe list.

[scarlett fever]

Wastrels are odd and have a few weaknesses (Wk and Df) I agree.

If I take them it's as a cheap model with a heal, gun with blasts and Ruthless. I've decided I really like Ruthless.

[ArcticPangolin]

Ruthless has definitely annoyed opponents at key times. I will have to look into High River Monks to further annoy them.

[barghest7]

No actual experience here, but was thinking that Cursed Object or Distract would be a good time to reach for these- interact, then defensive stance. Enemy still subject to disengaging strikes, no damage, but doesn't need to. Enemy can't remove while engaged, leaves pushes and attacking the monk, who'd be defensive.

 

I don't know how good it is on the table, but it sounds good in my head...

[chris_havoc]

They DO work well with Cursed Object and Distract. They don't mind Deliver The Message either if they get the opportunity. I use them in my Misaki Turf War crew. Three with the Dawn Serpent and Yamaziko means they can heal to hold the objective and having a few of them means that they can prevent a lot of Charge Actions while Braced. Dawn Serpent also has Call Unto the Chi so benefits from their having Ca actions.

[Abbazabba]

Cursed object and distract synergies are duly noted! Will be trying this out!

[Patzer]

Might be on the edge of thread-o-mancy here, but here goes.

 

They seem to fit well with McCabe. Since they are immune to Slow, McCabe can shoot them in engagement with his Netgun. This can be quite handy since they can provide with some additional angles behind cover, etc. In addition, McCabe is a well documented bad influence on those pacifists.

 

Other than that, I don't see myself hiring them a lot of times. I am in the same boat as Razhem.

[Rurouni Benshin]

I'm glad this got "necro'ed" actually, because I've been leaning towards not using my MLR recently. However, in light of some recent games, and now having seen which Schemes they're more proficient in, I see that they're very situational indeed.

 

Most recently, I played against Pandora with my TT, and she managed to make 3 of my models Insignificant when Interacts were moderately important. In the end, I still won, but having 1 MLR could've made the mission easier.

 

Using them against "Cursed Object" is a great way of getting rid of the condition without having to rely on the model cursed to do it. Need to definitely keep that one in mind.

[tomjoad]

I kept hearing when I started Malifaux about how amazing Chiaki was for condition removal...I think maybe people meant in Ressurectionists crews, though, because for my money, Low River is even better. Chiaki has them beat on range, and their 1" melee range paired with no option to charge is a genuine drawback. However, Chiaki costs 50% more, and is much more likely to fail to remove a condition (or to need a card to be cheated in). I'm getting to the point where most of my crews, even Yan Lo crews, take Low River and leave the Niece at home.

[Rurouni Benshin]

I kept hearing when I started Malifaux about how amazing Chiaki was for condition removal...I think maybe people meant in Ressurectionists crews, though, because for my money, Low River is even better. Chiaki has them beat on range, and their 1" melee range paired with no option to charge is a genuine drawback. However, Chiaki costs 50% more, and is much more likely to fail to remove a condition (or to need a card to be cheated in). I'm getting to the point where most of my crews, even Yan Lo crews, take Low River and leave the Niece at home.

The one time I played Yan Lo, I didn't bring Chiaki, because I just didn't feel she worked well with the list that I was bringing. In hindsight, she could've been useful, but only with her ability to remove conditions though, and in that a MLR would've been far better.

 

I still would like to give her a chance though, since she does have her uses.  And in a Ressers list, she'd probably be the only person that can remove harmful conditions at all out of the entire Faction (as far as I can recall, anyway).

[rover1013]

Using them against "Cursed Object" is a great way of getting rid of the condition without having to rely on the model cursed to do it. Need to definitely keep that one in mind.

 

Cursed Object can't actually be removed that way:

 

Cursed Object: This model may take a (1) Interact Action to perform a TN 12 Wk duel. If successful, remove this Condition from this model. No other Action may remove this Condition.

 

Distract has the same deal at the end.

 

Condition immunity like Lenny or choosing like Nihilism are the only real defense against them.

 

Still, the original post about their synergies with those schemes is valid of course.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Ah, thanks for clarifying.

[Tawg]

Re-thread-omancy a bit, but I think it's more appropriate than starting a whole new thread.  Plus I think this thread has a lot of really great information.

I wanted to add/ask something though about the LRMs, has anyone used them with Misdirect?  It seems like their ability to heal fairly easily, and being cheap/defensible could mean they would make good redirects for your own master/henchman when you anticipate your opponent being able to ignore the effect.  Although they only have 5 Wd, so it might be too much for them, depending on what they are having shunted onto them.

[Rurouni Benshin]

When I have Misdirection on a Master, I try to keep someone who's more resilient close by, until they're in the thick of combat.  Most popularly, Mei Feng is the Master I bring with Misdirection most often.  Along with her, are usually a couple of Metal Gamins.  With Armor +2 and Hard to Kill, they're decent targets to use with Misdirection, and if they end up getting killed after a few attacks, you're down only a 4 ss model.  Hopefully by Turn 2 though, you're in the middle of your opposition's models to use Misdirection on.