kmdl1066 Posted December 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Yep Mr. Disaster, I think that is the conclusion that is is pretty clear from all the observations. For experienced players who enjoy a cat and mouse type game where a maneuvering and position is by far the important consideration, they make for a great game. (Which would be me, except for the experienced part.) As both of us are beginners, it seems from comments that Misaki will let me play the style I like without being as all or nothing as Viktoria and we'll both have more fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I'm surprised that so many people are talking about how selfish the Viktorias are. I run Convict Gunslingers and Ronin all the time with them, and that means that Howling Wolf Tattoo saves me a bunch of cards over the course of the game, not to mention allowing one of your minions to hulk out for a turn. You also get 5 upgrade slots to play with, and I can't think of a better target for Tally Sheet than a Viktoria. I also regularly run Hans with them, so I Pay Better provides some pretty great synergy. I know that every Outcast master can do that, but synergy is synergy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 however he was not impressed when by turn 3 he only had Colette left. Mr. Nice Guy right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I'm surprised that so many people are talking about how selfish the Viktorias are. I run Convict Gunslingers and Ronin all the time with them, and that means that Howling Wolf Tattoo saves me a bunch of cards over the course of the game, not to mention allowing one of your minions to hulk out for a turn. You also get 5 upgrade slots to play with, and I can't think of a better target for Tally Sheet than a Viktoria. I also regularly run Hans with them, so I Pay Better provides some pretty great synergy. I know that every Outcast master can do that, but synergy is synergy. I used to do that, but realised I was just spending a lot of stones on stuff I didn't really need. Now I tend to trim it down to the essentials - Sisters in Fury and Oathkeeper on Ash, Shez'uul and Oathkeeper on Blood, and you're good to go. I stopped bothering with Howling Wolf because I realised it wasn't saving me that many cards (I maybe don't use enough Gunslingers). If the Viktorias are around they're usually the ones doing the killing, and if they're not, the upgrade is gone as well. Tally Sheet was similar - if the Viks are mixing it up, you should be in position for a quick victory, and the extra cards are just win-more at that point. Oathkeeper is the second-best general upgrade in the game (my opinion), and I always end up taking it wherever I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Zinc Lich Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 I used to do that, but realised I was just spending a lot of stones on stuff I didn't really need. Now I tend to trim it down to the essentials - Sisters in Fury and Oathkeeper on Ash, Shez'uul and Oathkeeper on Blood, and you're good to go. I stopped bothering with Howling Wolf because I realised it wasn't saving me that many cards (I maybe don't use enough Gunslingers). If the Viktorias are around they're usually the ones doing the killing, and if they're not, the upgrade is gone as well. Tally Sheet was similar - if the Viks are mixing it up, you should be in position for a quick victory, and the extra cards are just win-more at that point. Oathkeeper is the second-best general upgrade in the game (my opinion), and I always end up taking it wherever I can. Its funny, because I've gone in the opposite direction. I'm trying to ween myself off of using Oathkeeper on everyone, all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taffeh Posted December 8, 2014 Report Share Posted December 8, 2014 I've only just started with the Viks and find them fun but glass cannons. Can be hard to keep track of what all the mods are once applied. For beginning Outcasts, I'd say Schill is the best bet - very rounded Master and crew which will allow you to learn the basics of the game and doesn't cause too much hell with your mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I really enjoy playing the Viks, but I rarely toss Blood out on her own. Usually I just move them up in a pair and take advantage of the Dragon actions to eliminate targets and make them a decapitation whirlwind of joy (and also murder). Usually I just run Synchronized Slaying and something else (Howling Wolf/I Pay Better/Survivalist, depending) on Ashes and Shezuul and Tally Sheet on Blood. I don't mind playing against the Viks, as it brings a certain cat and mouse aspect to the game, and once someone pulls the trigger and commits everything gets super bloody super fast, one way or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_C Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Yeah, I was playing Viks against a beginner who wanted to try out Colette the other day. I was going as friendly as humanly possible without utterly murdering my opponent. I was giving him multiple options on what he could do and let him make up his own mind whilst also showing him that objectives are key rather than the blood bath it could very well have been. He appreciated my help and that I gave him options on either how to deal with my Viks, achieve his objectives or general advice however he was not impressed when by turn 3 he only had Colette left. This was pretty much down to a bit of bad luck on his part with some utterly shocking flips and control hands and me playing the Viks and Co. (with no upgrades other than Sisters in Spirit on Ashes) to achieve the objectives I had already revealed (Assassinate and Power Ritual, I know I can't reveal Assassinate but it was a beginner game and figured it would help him out). This was his 3rd practice game trying to get used to Colette and he asked that I play a crew he was vaguely familiar with and still he wasn't having much fun. Conclusion, even without all the bells and whistles the Viks have a fairly simple play style, they can be very straight forward but given the chance they WILL smash face, they WILL annoy your opponent and for some people they WILL create a NPE. I wouldn't advise using the Viks against beginners unless you yourself are also a beginner. Even then I'd probably still be wary. A lot of beginners will focus dramatically on their strengths and these can often overshadow their weaknesses. (I realize at this point I'm beating a dead horse as you've already made your decision but I hit my trigger for an extra attack, so TAKE THAT HORSE!) This is the exact reason I would not recommend the Viks for beginners learning the game. When you are learning the game ideally you'd like to have 5 turns of close play where the game comes down to what happens on turn 5. You'll get a better feel and learn more from each game. That's just not typical of a Viks games. Odds are a Viks game is decided turn 2 or 3, and after that you are just going through the motions of playing it out, the final result is for all intents and purposes has been decided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 (I realize at this point I'm beating a dead horse as you've already made your decision but I hit my trigger for an extra attack, so TAKE THAT HORSE!) This is the exact reason I would not recommend the Viks for beginners learning the game. When you are learning the game ideally you'd like to have 5 turns of close play where the game comes down to what happens on turn 5. You'll get a better feel and learn more from each game. That's just not typical of a Viks games. Odds are a Viks game is decided turn 2 or 3, and after that you are just going through the motions of playing it out, the final result is for all intents and purposes has been decided. I gotta agree with you here as that is my experience with them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I was going as friendly as humanly possible without utterly murdering my opponent. :D MasterDisaster demo: only slightly less humane than utter murder. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 :D MasterDisaster demo: only slightly less humane than utter murder. That is a gross exaggeration! It's more like clubbing baby seals... but with bricks instead of baseball bats.... There is a touch humanity in it! And now I'll wait for zFiend to chime in and have a pop at me as well, no doubt he is skulking around here somewhere 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 :D MasterDisaster demo: only slightly less humane than utter murder. Ahahahahahahha. :D 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 Ahahahahahahha. :D And there it is! Like moths to a flame! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moxypoo Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 I have an absolute blast playing with the Viks, but I can't say the same for my opponents! Slicing Sonnia, Hopkins, and Fransico into bite size chunks in one chain activation won't make you too many friends. I have used the Viks to teach new players the game since they have the most straight forward playstyle of any master I own. However, I do play them to a very low level in intro/beginner games (i.e. walk, charge, attack, maybe use the whirlwind trigger or the (2) Dragon actions once during the game). It's rare that I'll go after my opponent's master either. So far, none of people I've brought in with the Viks have been bothered by the first game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted December 9, 2014 Report Share Posted December 9, 2014 And there it is! Like moths to a flame! And what a flame it is! MD Bash is a flame that cannot be ignored. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted December 20, 2014 Report Share Posted December 20, 2014 Wow! What a great collection of responses with reasons. This is an awesome community. I think the Vikis will go on the shelf and Misaki will get painted. Von Schill has been fine while I'm still fumbling with rules, but he just doesn't interest me on the table. And fortunately there is a whole thread on Misaki to help me out. Misaki's probably easier to play. Just ran at your opponent really fast and beat the crap out of them with a stick. That's about it Only played 1 game with the viks, but I love the fact I can do so many things with them. Lots of cards in my hand? great! Not many cards? Also great! Models close to each other? Great! Models far away? Also great! I love the fact that I can slingshot, and/or grab all my sisters in a group to gang-bash the living snot out of something. That, and I've always loved the models and artwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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