Why are the Dreamer and Collodi Neverborn?

[Shadowdragon]

The background for the Dreamer states that Nytmare is hunted by both Neverborn and humans, so how come he's not Outcast? Hamelin is similar to the Dreamer and he's Outcast. Similarly, Collodi has absolutely no connection to the Neverborn, so why is he considered part of their faction? Again, he seems more like an Outcast. If these ancient entities do belong among the Neverborn then why isn't Hamelin a Neverborn? Am I missing some stories that describe why these Masters are with the factions they're with?

[Kadeton]

It's mostly historical precedent, to be honest.

The Gremlins used to be Outcasts, even though they were Neverborn.

Collodi was the Neverborn henchman, so now he's a Neverborn Master (and his puppets are closely thematically linked to Zoraida).

Hamelin is an Outcast because the original Hamelin (non-Plagued) was an Outcast.

The Dreamer is Neverborn because creepy children and giant monsters fit the Neverborn aesthetic more than Outcast. He dreams of monsters, not mercenaries.

Still, you raise some very good points.

[Hateful Darkblack]

The Dreamer is a Neverborn because Nightmares often tie themselves with other Neverborn as well. And because Neverborn have ties to the Nightmares of people.

 

And the other Neverborn don't really seem to know that Nytmare is a tyrant. At least, Pandora doesn't in that story where she asks him and he gives a really weird answer.

 

Collodi works closely with Zoraida, who makes dolls. (Collodi and Zoraida both have in common also that they're humans who were in Malifaux for so long that they turned into Neverborn themselves.)

 

EDIT: Oops! Collodi of course was never human. Let me amend that to "Collodi and Zoraida both have in common that they came from human society, but were in Malifaux for centuries and turned into Neverborn themselves." Sorry for my confusing mistake.

[Kadeton]

I think Collodi's fluff was changed a bit on that front - now he and Vasilisa are both actual puppets created and animated by the Neverborn of Old Malifaux.

[edonil]

For me, I look to the effigies for a bit of explanation. The effigies are drawn to types of magic, ways of accessing the aether. Arcane, for instance, searches out Arcanists by 'listening' for them, in a sense. The others are similar. Something of how Collodi interacts with the aether connects it to the Neverborn as a whole, as with Dreamer/Nytmare. The Outcasts, on the other hand, have wildly different ways to connect to the aether and that attracts the Hodgepodge Effigy.

 

Honestly, though, Collodi does have some similar motivations to the Neverborn at large, although its are more limited. It wants to get back at humanity, while the Neverborn want to get rid of humanity. A common enough purpose in a lot of ways.

 

As far as Hamelin... the Plagued doesn't view Himself as Neverborn at all. He is a Tyrant- far above such creatures, and far above humanity as well. He has a level of contempt for the Neverborn, same as He does with humans. And His goals are antithetical to the Neverborn- He wants to ascend, and become the 'ruler' of the aether. The Neverborn want to stop Him, and so they wouldn't ally themselves with Him.

[Durza]

I don't think Collodi was ever human in the stories, he was a puppet made to entertain, but when humanity came back through the breach they were scared of him and chased him off.

[Loveless]

Doesn't the Dreamer effectively call forth things directly related to Malifaux? I thought his shtick was that he manipulates the world and beings of Malifaux as though they were his personal dreamscape during a lucid dream - in which case, he'd be directly interacting with Neverborn, thus the faction dilineation.  Nytemare/Lord Chompy Bits determined the Dreamer would be an effective tool in his own goals and "joined up" or something, unless I'm misremembering.

 

Collodi is old and of Malifaux proper last I knew - that plants him in Neverborn, as well as his interactions with Zoraida and her skills.

 

Outcasts tend to be outsiders from the other side of the Breach who would prefer a mercenary lifestyle (Von Schill, Vikis, Levy, occasional Tara), or are just far too detached or self-indulgent to work well with any of the other faction goals (Hamelin, Jack Daw).  Also sometimes they're Misaki.

[necroon]

Well Collodi wants to kill all the humans. That drastically limits the clubhouses he would be allowed to hang out at and the tea parties he would be allowed to attend. Sometimes all it takes to bring people monsters together is the joint desire to commit genocide on an invasive group. I think his fluff states something native to Malifaux made him. Not sure if that makes him anymore natively Neverborn than a Guild toaster is Guild Aliigned. 

Note to self: Death Marshall Brave Little Toaster would be a great proxy for the Brutal Effigy. 

 

As for the Dreamer... doesn't Nytemare hold ties to the Neverborn faction? 

[Parker Barrows]

Collodi: 1E was vague, but 2E flat out states he was made by humans the first time through the Breach.

 

Dreamer: There's a story (Book 3?) where Lord Chompy Bits agrees to team up with the Neverborn.

[EnternalVoid]

Well a few things here.  First Collodi was made by the humans during the first breach crossing.  They do not go into details but I imagine he was made using knowledge that was uncovered from Malifaux.  His purpose was to entertain, mostly children but also adults with his shows.  When the breach was closed and the humans slaughtered Collodi was left alone.  From his fluff is suggests that he went a bit crazy in that 100 year spam, I doubt the people that made him had considered the possibility of a created life going mad.  So when Collodi came across the new settlers he rushed to continue his purpose with no concept of how people might react to a four armed wooden puppet coming at them.  After being driven off Collodi snapped, he felt betrayed by his creators and sought his revenge after being abandoned and then attacked.

 

The reason he is likely in the Neverborn camp is because the Neverborn are more a collection of creepy sorts allied against humanity.  I suspect at some point he likely came across members of the Neverborn who recruited him to their cause though we have not seen the fluff for that.  But considering his theme I would not be surprised if him and Zoraida have cooperated with each other.  Afterall things like Teddies, Stitched Togethers, and Wicked Dolls are not Collodi's tools but those of the Neverborn.  He is more likely to have gained access to them though partnering with said Neverborn.  He is not with the Outcasts likely because he wants most of them dead *the vast amount of living humans in that faction*.

 

As for Dreamer his initial interaction with Neverborn is that share similar troops, as in the Nyghtmare and Dreamer use certain Neverborns that are also used by other leaders of the Neverborns.  So initially they were not allied as much as similar forces working against humanity as a whole.  Though in one story Lilith and Zoraida discuss Nyghtmare and allying with him as he is against the Tyrants for the most part as well.  Zoraida suggests having Pandora confront him as she saw it as the best solution for approaching him as Nyghtmare would not adknowledge her and Lilith not being the best choice for her position and style.  Later in Book 3 I believe you see the meeting of Pandora and Nyghtmare which ends with a loose agreement between Lilith's faction *Lilith, Pandora, Zoraida* and Nyghtmare.

[Shadowdragon]

Ah, I haven't been able to get my hands on a copy of book 3 yet, so I guess I was missing the vital story telling of Nytmare's recruitment into the Neverborn. The fluff for the Dreamer in book 2 simply ends by saying Nytmare is being hunted by humans and neverborn alike. I have to say, I really like the fluff for Malifaux, especially how it evolves over time to fill in gaps or advance certain character's story lines. The writers really did an amazing job.