Brewmaster Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Since I created Sadie Reed, I've been toying with the more accurate weapons (Rapiers, Katanas, etc). And thanks to Dr. Douglas McMourning, I believe I have an answer: Precise keyword While damaging, this weapon gains the trigger MASK: this weapon's damage ignores armor and hard to wound So, a rapier would be a one-handed melee weapon, reach 2 (since you're lunging with it a lot), Precise, and... lets call it a 1/1/2 profile for a basic. Katana one-handed melee, reach 1, 1/3/5, Precise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Katana one-handed melee, reach 1, 1/3/5, Precise The Katana is and has always been traditionally a 2 handed weapon, they often ranged from 4-5 foot in length and become rather unwieldy in one hand. The Wakizashi, the smaller of the 2 blades is more suited to 1 handed fighting styles. There are fighting styles that use the Katanata one handed however these were often dual wielding styles and were difficult due to the weight of the Katana, they are also far and few between. Just me nit picking but go with whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Shine Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I just dislike precise because you most certainly do not try to pick out points with a katana like you could with a rapier. Rapiers thrust, Katanas still slash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Katanas, in all the time I've been taught to use them, have never been described as armour piercing. Mine is about 3 foot of blade, which on the end of my arm is likely more than a 1 range". And as Masterdisaster said, they're useable single handed but are best used two handed. Really, the essence of using a katana is being damn fast and slicing people open wherever they aren't protected. The big difference to me is that you never block with a katana, you deflect and use that momentum to attack before your opponent recovers. So... Riposte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 The Katana is and has always been traditionally a 2 handed weapon, Unless your Miyamoto Musashi But I agree. And I agree about the Katana not having Precise.....I like Riposte, or maybe a 'First Strike' type ability. I think there are a lot of abilities that could be earned as you gain proficiency with a particular weapon. There are some general ones already built into the game, but there are specifics that could go with certain weapons.........like, I couldn't just pick up a Rapier and be able to do a decent Riposte......but after training with it for a while I could. I think something like that would go a long way toward making specific weapons feel more unique.....instead of a sword is a sword is a sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewmaster Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I was kinda thinking Musashi when I was writing, but it seems I have been officially schooled. Thank you for the correction And thank you for the interesting way of handling it. You tie abilities to how skilled the Fated is to using them. So: Precise: when you have 4 or more ranks in Melee, this weapon gains the following trigger Riposte: when you have 4 or more ranks in this weapons skill, you gain the following trigger "while wielding this weapon, you gain + to Df". This opens the gate to talents that compliment weapon styles. For example: Strike Back Req: 4 or more ranks in Katana You totally gain a retribution attack on a defense trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mako Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Makes them easy to grant players who are focussing their RP on one style too, that way. Good little extras to give people during XP spending, or when they do something big in the story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malsqueek Posted September 17, 2014 Report Share Posted September 17, 2014 I've been toying with the idea of adding more triggers to skills, and have been trying to figure out how to work it. This would be a pretty slick way of doing it. In terms of making a specific list of a bazillion new weapons, I'm not a big fan. We can already do a lot of this stuff with the custom weapons rules. Let the Fated buy a light blade and TELL you they use a rapier, and then use triggers on skills to help differentiate. Having triggers be a thing that you add to skills with 1 SP (let's be honest, there's a lot of these things flying around) seems pretty awesome, though I would generalize them a bit more. Precision Strike (req: Light Piercing Blade, Melee 4+) A successful Ml attack with a Light Piercing Blade gains the following trigger [Mask]: This Attack Ignores Armor and Hard to Wound Riposte: (req: Non-Heavy Melee Weapon, Melee 4+) A successful Df against a Ml attack gains the following trigger [Tomes]: Immediately make a single attack action against the attacker using the Df flip as the attack value. If you buy these at 1 Sp per, have requirements, and probably limit them to 1 per fate step, you'd be able to really flesh out a character nicely. (I've been thinking of attaching them to Aspect improving fate steps as well to up the perception of value on non-manifest powers) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 Riposte should be a trigger and not a to keep things consistent with the TTG. Though I like the idea of players becoming better with a weapon as they grow in experience I think the system already sort of does this via the pursuit steps and Talents. One thing to clarify is that we aren't asking for an endless list of every possible permutation of melee weapon ever in existence (at least I know I am not), we are asking for a decent selection of 3-4 viable options for each general type. I am not sure why so much attention was giving to the ranged weapons and not a similar level of detail to the melee section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alemon Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I feel like I'm one of the few that are satisfied with the "custom melee weapon" section in the book. In fact, if they expanded on the idea and made the custom weapons section the ONLY weapon section. A weapon section based on the magia and immuto system they use for magic would be neat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malsqueek Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 I feel like I'm one of the few that are satisfied with the "custom melee weapon" section in the book. In fact, if they expanded on the idea and made the custom weapons section the ONLY weapon section. A weapon section based on the magia and immuto system they use for magic would be neat. I would adore a good custom weapon spread for ranged weapons, but it turns out that is HARD to put together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 The issue I have with the weapons section (and something I have argued during play testing) is that it doesn't really offer independently viable choices. There is almost always a very clear best choice with in any of the weapon sections. Even the upgrades tend to fall into this category. The only upgrade that really carries a "downside" is Shoddy and even then it is relatively minor for a character that isn't planning to acquire a Trigger for their firearm anyway (or selects a firearm where it is easily offset) The magic system also has this issue (as evidenced by the recommendations to "fix" the Magic Theories). Sure the game may be best run as a Story telling game were combat takes a definitive back seat and the Fate Master can always "house rule" what he needs to but it would be nice if the skeleton carried more of the load than it does. I would adore a good custom weapon spread for ranged weapons, but it turns out that is HARD to put together. Not sure I agree with this...there were plenty of recommendations offered during play testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alemon Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 You were playtesting? Do y have an idea of wyrds reasoning for choosing this option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 As another member of the playtest, I'd expect that it was limitations of space and room for future expansions. There was a hard limit on the page count, and the book certainly used all of that up. I expect we'll see more options and such in future books. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted September 18, 2014 Report Share Posted September 18, 2014 You were playtesting? Do y have an idea of wyrds reasoning for choosing this option? Only so much the play testers can really divulge as we are bound by a Non-disclosure agreement. All we can really say is that a lot of options were presented and discussed and the designer decided to go in this direction. Aside from what Edonil states though there may have been other reasons. Sadly I would bet timeline was probably the largest factor. I have always thought the projected release date posted on the Kickstarter was more than a bit optimistic and the pressure to release quickly (especially once the projected date was missed) was definitely felt. The system works as a Story telling game but for something inspired by a TTG a lot of the potential audience are going to assume a more combat oriented experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I'm not sure how anyone expects a combat driven system. No one has been talking about one for a long time, especially everyone who has played it, and even during the kickstarter campaign Mack was pretty evidently pushing for a story and narrative system, not simply a rehashing of Malifaux's core rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 On topic- I love the idea of triggers attached to weapons (particularly that Precision Strike and the Riposte options!), although I do have to wonder about having the minimum skill needed for them be at 4. Rank 3 is presented as being above average for training, might be better to put in place there? Oh, and a couple other trigger options- armor cracking for Heavy Melee blunt weapons like hammers and maces? Maybe one that does a cumulative negative effect on Armor for the length of a combat. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alemon Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I think they chose four because that's the rank that pugilism and martial arts get their abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 Ah, that would make sense. Not sure I agree with it, but I can see the logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 19, 2014 Report Share Posted September 19, 2014 I was wondering if there are any melee weapons that we can't finangle in some form through the custom rules. The only one I can think of might be a swordbreaker. Perhaps make it a 2/3/3, with Skill 3 you get a trigger for a defensive ability and Skill 5, the ability to break a held (so not claws) weapon with the blade on an offensive trigger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordZombie Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 Personally, if my players want a weapon of some type that is not in the book. They just need to find someone carrying it and take it. In my current campaign, one player is walking around with a gremlin banjo. If he wants to swing it like a weapon, just use the stats already there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowchikawowers Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 how is a gremlin banjo different from a regular banjo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alemon Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 how is a gremlin banjo different from a regular banjo? A gremlin banjo has weapon stats and a regular banjo wouldn't be caught dead with a gremlin banjo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilitiesEnd Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 A gremlin banjo has weapon stats and a regular banjo wouldn't be caught dead with a gremlin banjo. Post of the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omenbringer Posted September 20, 2014 Report Share Posted September 20, 2014 I'm not sure how anyone expects a combat driven system. No one has been talking about one for a long time, especially everyone who has played it, and even during the kickstarter campaign Mack was pretty evidently pushing for a story and narrative system, not simply a rehashing of Malifaux's core rules. Off topic but how does an RPG based on a TTG not foster expectations of a combat oriented experience (especially among those that were not play testers or KS backers)? Even the Pursuits listed in the book are fairly combat focused, Mercenaries, Gunfighters, Scrappers,Dabbler's, ect and add to the expectation of a potential combat experience somewhat similar to the TTG. There has been an awful lot of discussion in regards to the combat system in particular (both during and after play testing) providing fair evidence that players are expecting a combat experience. A narrative game can provide a valid combat experience, the two are not incompatible. As it sits now the combat experience for TtB leaves a lot to be desired. I wouldn't be surprised if the next few books focused more on this aspect of the game and expanded options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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