zFiend Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Have you faced Ophelia? Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted July 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Have you faced Ophelia? Exactly Whoever said Ophelia was honkydory? If she didn't have a trivial way to get those rams with Lenny, it wouldn't be that much of a problem since she would mostly eat stones to keep the triggers going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 It has been really bad out here even without Lenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevorin Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I found it interesting that 4-6 damage 3x from a master was thought to be "OP". I would consider it normal for offensive based masters. Ophelia isn't the only one, but probably the most recognizable. I face her regularly, and I wouldn't consider her OP either. Luckily this game's victories doesn't revolve around who does the most damage. I don't consider Jacob OP, or OTT. I play him, and have played against him. He can be shut down, and even easily removed from the table if you focus on it. He is an offensive master that needs a little luck to push that offensive damage a little further, which I think fits well into his character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Jacob does have a free, somewhat powerful Henchman, too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted July 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Jacob does have a free, somewhat powerful Henchman, too. Pretty much this. I still don't really see how people consider Jakob such an offensive piece without multiple Final Debts since his threat range is relatively tame and without Expert Cheater/Misdirection, he is made out of tissue. I think people are undervaluing how much the possibility of multiple Final Debts forced your opponent to be cautious with their range to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevorin Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Jacob does have a free, somewhat powerful Henchman, too. How is that different from the Viks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevorin Posted July 16, 2014 Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 Pretty much this. I still don't really see how people consider Jakob such an offensive piece without multiple Final Debts since his threat range is relatively tame and without Expert Cheater/Misdirection, he is made out of tissue. I think people are undervaluing how much the possibility of multiple Final Debts forced your opponent to be cautious with their range to him. I think you and I are saying the same thing. The Cuddle was fine. I'm definitely not arguing that there should never have been a change. I still think he is a very good master. And he is most definitely offensive, since he sure isn't defensive (cause, he is made out of tissue). He is just a close up offensive master, kind of like so many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteAccount Posted July 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think you and I are saying the same thing. The Cuddle was fine. I'm definitely not arguing that there should never have been a change. I still think he is a very good master. And he is most definitely offensive, since he sure isn't defensive (cause, he is made out of tissue). He is just a close up offensive master, kind of like so many others. Well, at least now that I can't count on blasting something hard reliably, I want to avoid going for the usual suspect upgrade and use him more as an "offensive support" if you will where I mostly just set up brilliance with the gun and Pay Up and let the real hitters do their job while also using Mulligan to clean my hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterDisaster Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 How is that different from the Viks? This is different because 1) The Viks only have 7 Wd each not 10/12 (Can't remember Lynch's Wd) and a free totem Henchman which also has 7 Wd and Incorporeal who also causes Terror and can come back to life. 2) They are limited to a 2" Ml range to achieve devastation not an 8-10" Ca or Sh attack 3) They can't guarantee a whopping 4-6 damage every turn they are within range, sure it's possible and hell even likely but they have to get in your face to do this which means retribution wont be far away. Most people Expect the Viks to die, most people do not expect Lynch to die. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Math Mathonwy Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 How is that different from the Viks?Viks are squishy melee models while Lynch is a squishy ranged model and Huggy is immortal and only squishy against Ca stuff. They aren't easy to compare, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 I've made a habit of beating the Viktorias to death with Colette's cane (and she ain't a vicious combat master anymore). I can't see her making a habit of beating Jakob and Buggy to death with her cane. The durability, treaty ranges and risk involved in using them are just vastly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 You can't compare Viki's to Jacob. Not even a little bit. Cuddling aside, I think Jacob should have been given less offense and more buffing capabilites. It should have been his focus and the Darkness should have been all damage dealing. I also think Jacob should have been the Henchman and the Darkness the Master. But, it is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.T.A. Hoffman Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 just to be clear, since the ability say's this action cannot be taken once per turn, the Doppleganger can't mimic the attack can she? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowfane Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 just to be clear, since the ability say's this action cannot be taken once per turn, the Doppleganger can't mimic the attack can she? Doppelganger can't use it anyway, since mimic specifies "Non-Leader" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocSchlock Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 From this FAQ answer about Once Per Turn abilities: "No. A model which has an Action with the “once per Turn” restriction may only take that Action once per Turn. Same answer for Actions which are “once per Activation.”" I'd assume it's on a per-model basis, so the Doppelganger would be fine. Once Per Turn seems to be "this model can only take this thing once per turn". "This model" would refer to the Doppelganger when she Mimics the ability. Edit: Irrelevant due to "non-Leader" on Mimic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asrian Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 After a few games with Lynch, post Errata, I haven't really noticed much of a difference in his capabilities from my own perspective. I rarely used Final Debt more than once a turn prior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zFiend Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I played one game after the Errata and didn't take Woke up with a hand at all though. I think I managed okay without it and it really made it easier to just activate Lynch first, tag some brilliance, Mulligan the cards for a better hand and play him a bit more as a support, I did at the very end try him a bit more aggressive, he went out alone and dropped an Ice gamin and the Wendigo and got killed by a Blessed of December like he was a small bunny. The Blessed died due to Hold 'Em but I think that was a good swap for my opponent with Assassinate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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