Lazarus and McCabe

[Crescent]

I was wondering if I could take Lazarus with McCabe if I declare 10T? Question essentially boils down to if McCabe still belongs to the guild faction when declared as 10T.

 

I am sort of thinking that he still belongs to the guild as I couldnt find anything to the contrary in the rulebook, but would like to make sure as it might be an interesting combo if allowed.

[daemonkin]

I think it's fine. You declared 10T so you are not Guild which means you can hire Lazarus.

 

D.

[Joel]

I'd have said no. He still is a guild master, even if he doesn't declare that faction for a game, in the same way as all duel faction masters are members of both factions.

[Verdeloth]

There was a other thread about this and most people from that thread said no. He is still in fact a guild model even if you use him as ten storm master

[daemonkin]

Really? Oh well, shows what I know.

 

D.

[Lynch]

Lucius, McMorning and McCabe cant play lazarus in any faction, or thats most of people understand. But a FAQ is needed.

[Sholto]

I would have said you could use him in a 10T crew, since by declaring him a 10T Master he is a 10T Master (and thus by definition not a Guild Master, or an Arcanist or Neverborn Master, for that matter).

[MasterDisaster]

 

I think it's fine. You declared 10T so you are not Guild which means you can hire Lazarus.

 

D.

 

 

I would have said you could use him in a 10T crew, since by declaring him a 10T Master he is a 10T Master (and thus by definition not a Guild Master, or an Arcanist or Neverborn Master, for that matter).

 

 

 

I have to completely disagree with this and here's why. This is the rule that stops Lazarus from being able to join Guild crews

 

"Hate the Maker: This model may not be hired by a Crew if the Crew's Leader belongs to the Guild Faction."

 

It states "belongs to the Guild Faction" not the Leader's declared faction. It doesn't matter if McCabe has declared his crew to be 10T as he still also belongs to the Guild as well, he doesn't stop being Guild because his crew is comprised of 10T. 

 

The same applies to the Freikorps Librarian with say.... Misaki and Tara, If they declare 10T or Ressers respectively they can still benefit from Healing Energies twice per activation because the wording says "If this Crew's Leader is not an Outcast". Well... they clearly are, they are just working with/for the alternate faction for that particular game. Their faction doesn't become exclusively 10T or Resser, they are still Outcasts as well. Just as McCabe still belongs to the Guild even though he's working as a 10T. 

 

So no, Lazarus is a no go for Lucius, McMourning and McCabe no matter which faction they happen to be playing. This is how I've always understood it and that's how everybody in my meta has played it. It also saves wasting time on rules debates to just say no until an FAQ clears up the matter. 

[Soundwave]

I've personally been confused by this as well. I think a slight change in the wording to make it clearer would be good. It really shouldn't be that difficult to tell.

[MasterDisaster]

I agree if it were something like this would finally put this one to bed. 

 

"Hate the Maker: This model may not be hired by a Crew if the Crew's Leader belongs to the Guild Faction. Regardless of declared Faction." 

[Sholto]

It also saves wasting time of rules debates to just say yes until an FAQ clears up the matter. 

 

 

This statement is equally true, and equally helpful

 

It looks like this is one of the rules imponderables that needs an FAQ and until then gamers will have to work it out among themselves. It's no biggie, though. I don't think anyone has demonstrated that Lazarus has any broken interactions with these Masters or their crews, have they?

[Crescent]

Personally I hope to get a clarification in the other direction, e.g. "Hate the Maker: This model may not be hired by a Crew if the Crew's declared faction is Guild" as I would like to field the robot in question.

 

I do think it is probably going to go in the way Masterdisaster suggests, which is a shame for me since then I wont have an excuse to buy and paint the model for the time being

[Vanthor]

Sadly, Beta threads are hidden away but I'm sure it was discussed and explained at the time, as well as a short fluff piece to explain that Lazarus hates the Guild and thus won't work in a crew led by a model with Guild affiliations.

[Adran]

Page 20 of the big rules- faction- this shows the faction (or factions) to which a model belongs... A models faction never changes.

So never can combine Lazarus and McCabe. The story why they don't work together is in twisting fates. Well why Lazarus doesn't work for the guild anymore, after the way they created and mistreated him.

[Hateful Darkblack]

Yeah, McCabbe and McMourning and Lucius can't hire Lazarus, even if they're not in a Guild Faction.

[Spyder Revenant]

I understand what everyone is stating, however, all crew hiring is based upon the Declared faction, If you declare Ten Thunders and choose McCabe, he is Ten Thunders for purposes of hiring his crew, including Lazarus, he can only use Ten Thunders upgrades and would have to pay the extra soulstone to hire any Guild mercs.  The fact that he can be hired by Guild faction holds no relevance in this case.

 

So ignore all of that, this is all settled with the entry on Dual Faction models,

 

Some models have two Faction symbols shown on the associated stat cards. These models count as both Factions for the purposes of hiring; however, they may only have Upgrades from the announced Faction. Page 91 of the small book.