Sell me on Malifaux!

[Bithlord]

My wife and I started playing Warmahordes almost 2 years ago.  We love it, and aren't looking to quit.  What we are looking for is a smaller scale, shorter gameplay experience that we can buy a few models for and pull out to play when we want a change of pace.

 

Enter Malifaux.  I understand the rules used to be free before 2e, but are not anymore (although this is just hearsay).  What are we looking at for the rules both costwise and complexity wise?

 

I also understand that getting in and started has a relatively low price point - requiring just a starter and maybe one or two other models.  One thing we got "burned on" in Warmahordes was that when we started, the people selling us the game swore up and down that hte starters were balanced against each other.  In reality they are not.  Trollbloods is a 10 point army, Cryx is a 14 point army, and all the rest are 11 point armies.  Plus, the boxes just don't play balanced against each other.  Will we run into something similar here?  Are there particular OP starters and/or overly weak starters that we should avoid?

 

Resources! Are there any sites/demo videos that can give us a walkthrough on playing the game (not just a document, but showing us a playthrough - geared towards new players?).  How protective is Wyrd of their "IP"?  Privateer Press won't let anyone publish the stats of any of theri models, and doesn't release them publicly, forcing you to effectively buy something to see what things you should buy.  Will we run into something similar here?

 

Does Malifaux work for 3/4 players?  We play with a gaming group at our home frequently, and would much rather everyone played the same game than two separate two player games.

 

Everything else!  Is there anything else you think we should know and/or consider, or anything in particular that attracted you specifically to Malifaux?  Did that attraction turn out to be correct, or was it an initial impression that wasn't quite right?

 

Whew, that was a mouthful.  Thanks for reading, and I look forward to your answers.

[Mister Shine]

 

Its about 15 bucks for the mini rules bookdepending on your FLGS. If you're buying new plastics, you'll get stat cards similar to warmahordes, although arsenal decks are also available and recommended (similar to faction decks).

 

You could also buy the big rule book  for ~$40 which has all the model rules in it as well as fluff stories and all the good stuff. But it isnt tiny and portable like the mini book is.

 

Starter boxes are not necessarily balanced at the same points level. The new boxes are awful close though, just have a peek at the actual point cost in the crew creator here: http://wyrd-games.net/community/page/malifaux_2e_crew.html to confirm. A nice thing about malifaux is that excess points are converted to an in-game resource, so you'll never be wasting points.

 

Wyrd is fairly protective of their IP. That said, the entirety of the wave 2 of second edition models is currently available for free in their final state. They also have a lot of free fluff provided through their e-mag The Wyrd Chronicles: http://wyrd-games.net/community/files/category/1-wyrd-chronicles/

 

The malifaux wiki http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/ has some great starting information for new players, including help with choosing a first master as well as more advanced tactica on how those masters play. Wyrd is absolutely fine with this, so long as we keep the actual numbers out and let them handle publishing free rules if thats what they want to do.

 

Not sure about geared towards new players, but there's a metric pigton of batreps on these very forums over yonder: http://wyrd-games.net/community/forum/55-battle-reports/ which'll help when combined with the rest of this jazz, Also, a number of podcasts can be found online for malifaux

 

Malifaux CAN work for 3/4 player games, its more of a special case though and the game is really balanced around a 2 player set.

[Falconrider]

My advice is to play a game and you will no doubt be hooked!

[asrian]

Seamus - Undead Hookers. Enough said. 

 

As a long time 40k and Fantasy player for Warhammer (and Mordheim player), I have to say I am thoroughly enjoying the diversity and flavorful character of the crews in Malifaux. Couple that with a very nicely executed, small-scale strategy game and it's a win in my book.

 

The crews are varied enough in style to suit most anyone's taste (from undead, to western, to steam punk, to asian, to nightmarish, etc), and there is enough variety in play styles to keep most people happy (melee, shooting, movement shenanigans, manipulation of cards/opponents/crowd control, etc). Also, there's the fact that Masters of crews are not limited to just a few model options, but can choose from a wide variety of models to enhance their crew. If you want to stick to theme you can. If you want to accent a crew's strengths (like Willpower focused in my Pandora crew for example) you can. Or, you can go for models that shore up shortcomings in your crew. Most masters have access to crew members not only from their faction, but one to two others as well. This makes it easy to buy another crew master and still have viable models to use with him (example I run Pandora and Lynch from Neverborn, and just bought the Lilith box set. Her terror tots can easily be used with the other two masters as great scheme runners). 

 

As for gameplay, while you can go straight for your opponents throat like in Warhammer or Warmachine, it is ultimately won/lost by completing the strategies and schemes. This adds multiple layers of tactics to the game as you have to not only complete your tasks (the mutual one you both share and the two you personally pick) to win, but you also have to factor in ways to deny your opponent points and kill/defend/contend with their crew members. It makes the game quite multifaceted and strategic on multiple levels as well as keeps it interesting, as games are never the same due to the randomization of objectives and the ability to change crews around.

 

On the hobby front, the models, thus far from my experience, are beautifully sculpted (though some are a pain in the rear to assemble...I'm looking at you Illuminated), and quite detailed, which makes them a treat to paint. And, unlike Warhammer and other games, each master and crew member is more individual. You don't become bored painting them (at least I don't) as each one is it's own character, even lowly minions.

 

Anyway, best of luck to you. I hope you get a chance to play the game, and hope you find yourself enjoying it.

[DavicusPrime]

Main draws for me:

 

*Low cost of entry:  Starter Box + Deck of cards.  There are lots of game-aid resources downloadable from this forum (Counters/markers/summary sheets) that folks have made on their own and share with us for free.  The only other things you need to acquire are tape measures and terrain which you ought to have from your warmahordes back ground.

 

*Low model Count: My background is 40K and I have never had a fully painted army. Ever.  I love building and converting miniatures as well as building terrain, but painting is like pulling teeth.  I've got three masters and associated crews for Archanists which add up to 28 models that I can mix and match to build all kinds of configurations typically totaling up to 6-8 models on the table.  28 models is barely enough to get started with a 40K army, and would never get past 50% painted.  As of now I almost have my Ramos crew painted which is a huge moral victory!

 

*Cards > Dice:  In every game I've ever played, my dice have hated me.  I may get a periodic streak of luck quickly petering out to strings of 1's.  The card mechanic in this game has been so much more enjoyable.  You aren't at the mercy of a die roll, you can tweak the outcomes through your control hand and the use of soul stones in such a way that really puts more tactical power literally in your hand.  The black joker still mocks me, but there's only one of those in the deck so it doesn't hurt so bad. :-P

 

*Wildly varied themes that strangely make sense together: The way this game melds multiple genres into one unified whole is amazing.  I like the Steam punk elements (the main draw for me initially) which turn up in both the Guild and Archanist factions.  But you've got Victorian Horror (Seamus = if Jack the ripper was also a necromancer, McMourning = Dr. Frankenstien, etc.), Asian crime syndicate/mythology (Ten Thunders), Weird Western (The Ortegas, Gremlins), surreal nightmare fodder (pretty much all of the Neverborn) and a bunch of soldier types and sword wielding mercenary chicks (outcasts).  Malifaux, the ultimate melting pot!

 

*Scenario/Schemes matter:  I've had my crew all but wiped out and still won the game.  This game rewards playing the scenario, not just slaughtering everything that moves.  Eliminating models is usually a good idea, but not if it gets in the way of getting those precious victory points.

 

MY main problem with the game is that there is a steep learning curve.  Every model, even the lowliest of peon, has a lot of options that interact with each other in good and bad ways.  Learning how to utilize all the abilities and available upgrades well has been a struggle for me, especially since I only get to play every other month.  If I had more time to absorb and test things on the table I'd probably see this as a feature.  Your Warmahordes background will probably be an asset to you in this regard.  You're used to building a list around a warmaster's abilities and adding units that synergize well with his/her strengths/weaknesses.

 

I've found this game to not be quick, however.  A typical 50 stone game takes me 2-3 hrs (rule and model familiarity shortens that, but I've never seen a game that's fairly even go less than 1.5 hrs).  Running a game with 12-16 models on the table (6-8 per side) can take a while.  The later turns tend to speed up nicely as casualties increase and objectives become more clear.  If you start with a smaller sized game would reduce the time too.

 

-DavicusPrime

[asrian]

I agree with Davicus on his points. The gaming background does help, but keep in mind that in Malifaux VP > body count. This is something I have to keep in mind coming from Warhammer where the opposite is usually true.

[Mister Shine]

Similar point if youre coming from Warmahordes: Losing you Master is not like losing your Warcaster. The game is not over. The amount of resources you have to dump into being able to take out a Master usually mean youre going to be seriously light in paying attention to Victory Points elsewhere. And if you're the person who just lost your leader, you can capitalize on this.

 

Malifaux has a lot of strategy and games are often decided on the very last turn, not the first or second.

 

Also SOOOOO goddamn pretty (in a creepy way). Join up with the fanboys over at "A Wyrd Place" on facebook, watch our community do cool and crazy things. Worth a look and is free.

[Adran]

Strictly speaking, not all Starter boxes are Balanced, some are worth more points than others, so one of you might eitehr have to not bring all there toys (both models and upgrades) or the other might need another model (or to max out on Upgrades and Cache), but since you play to a points value, you should have a balenced game.

I would ahve to go thorugh all the boxes, but I can't think of any that wouldn't let you play 26-30 stone games fairly well/

 

But in my opinion every Plastic starter box allows a playable crew with some inbuilt synergy (Although the McMorning box alone isn't great if you want to play him as guild). A few of the metal starter boxes are not so playable straight from the box, either because its missing some important pieces (Leveticus or Kirai box) or the models don't go together all that well in those numbers (In my opinion Kaeris, or Molly, )

 

I don't consider any of the masters overpowered, although you will want a decent amount of terrain, as the amount you would see on a Warmhordes, or Warhammer table would lead to ranged crews being much more powerful than intended due to lack of cover. I also don't consider any of the masters underpowered, but the do have different learning curves. So Its easy to get to a good standard with perdita for example, and a lot of players do so within a game or two. She might then seem over powered against someone else, as they are still lower on the learning  curve, but in time they will match up again, and  gettign the best out of Perdita will still require a lot of learning.

 

I don't think you will find Malifaux a shorter game than Warmahordes, I haven't palyed it, btu peopel at our club are more likely to get 2 warmahordes games in a 3 hour evening, than the Malifaux players (We have managed it, but only when we are trying to play to tournement time limits in preparation ), most of my casual games are 2 to 2.5 hours.

 

The Basic rules are not that hard, although there are some tricky interactions, as you get in most war games.

I really like the Card mechanic (Dice hate me) Its still random, but I have a small amount of control of what my crew will be able to do because of my fate hand.

I also like the Vp mechanics, and the unknown objectives, or alternative aims that the game throws up. I very rarely get my master to survive the game, but still genrally win. I've won several games without having any crew left, and even on occasions with the enemey crew still being over 80% intact, so the VP focus works very well for me, sacrificing my crew to slow the enemy down.

 

I would recomend downloading the Wave 2 figures and cards, and buying the large rule book, as that will then give you access to the rules for every model in the game. (When the expected Book 2 arrives this gencon, it will probably have all the wave 2 stats in, and then they might remove the cards form the site).

 

There are Mulitplayer rules in the Chronicles, and they are quite interesting to play.  

 

Some of the Video reports on the site here are pretty good at explaining the game for new people.

[Bithlord]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

 

I think at this point our plan is to look into the starters and see what aesthetic we like, and then do a demo of the game at GenCon to see if we like how it plays.  If that all goes well we'll probably pick up a starter each and maybe one or two additional models.

 

On that note, are there any sniper crews?  I managed to pick the two least snipery factions in warmahordes and would like to play that style some.  (Not just ranged crews, but something giving the feel of a hidden sniper shooitng out specific models/walls/whatevers).

[MasterDisaster]

No Sniper crews as such but there are Snipers. Freikorps Trappers within the Outcast Faction, Hans is the best Sniper in the game and he is also an Outcast. Both of these are Mercs so can be Hired by anybody. Ten Thunders have KAtanaka Snipers who are really cool as well, think Ninja Sniper and you're on the right tracks. Nino belongs to the Ortega family and he Snipes using a Repeating Rifle. Snipers aren't a common theme within Malifaux due to the time in history and themes involved. Think Victorian Horror, Steampunk & Wild West. Not abundant with the modern concept of snipers but they do exist within the game. 

 

There are planty of Range focused crews and Masters such as Ophelia from the Gremlins or Perdita Ortega from Guild. The best thing to do is have a nose at http://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/ and see what sort of Faction and/or Masters suit your interests and go from there. 

[Da Git]

Trust me, play a few games with proxies, & we won't need to sell you... You'll be hooked!

[Adran]

Guild also have Riflemen, who look snipery, have decent range, and can go on overwatch, and there is Lucius who can have a hidden sniper attack.

 

Guild are the main gun faction, although outcasts and Gremlins are close. Ten thunders can do a decent bit of range as well.

[DavicusPrime]

Re: Snipers...  There seem to be one or two models per faction that can act as snipers, and with the Outcast Mercs no one has to go without one.

 

I play Arcanists and Gremlins. 

 

The Arcanists, at least the ones I have (Ramos, Kaeris, Mei Feng), really don't have much in the way of shooting nor sniping.  The gunsmiths are mid to close range gunfighters and the masters and henchmen have some solid ranged attacks, but my construct heavy lists are more melee focused and the ranged stuff doesn't have much reach beyond 12".

 

The gremlins however are very shooty all around, and the crew I have (Ophelia) is as shooty as they get, with Rami LaCroix as the resident sniper.  Rami doesn't hit hard but he can take a single long ranged focused shot or up to three short ranged shots in an activation.  And if his Dumb luck trigger goes off, he can double the damage.  With the right suits and some slop hauler back-up to counter the self inflicted damage from dumb luck, The Kin are extremely fun.

 

Sniper'ish models I've fought against: Ten Thunders Archers, Guild Austringers (don't need Line of Sight, so extra difficult to flush out), Freidcorps Trappers (outcasts), and Guild Rifleman.

 

-DavicusPrime

[Mister Shine]

Although Ressers arent very shooty as a faction, the master Seamus can teleport across the board to step out of an alleyway and murder a model with a .50 flintlock if thats the kind of thing youre into.

 

And zombies.

[Bengt]

Pigapulp is kinda sniperish as well. At least rules wise, not so much in concept.

[Tuttleboy]

Two shooty right out of the box crews I can think of and that's Perdita's Latigo Posse and the obviously inferior ripoff version Ophlia's The Kin. 

 

 

 

[DavicusPrime]

Two shooty right out of the box crews I can think of and that's Perdita's Latigo Posse and the obviously inferior ripoff version Ophlia's The Kin. 

 

A rip off?  Yes.  Inferior?  Not so much.

 

-DavicusPrime

[Tuttleboy]

Sure O is inferior. She's not even part of a real faction.

[DavicusPrime]

You make me sad. 

[Tuttleboy]

Once Mah drops I plan to join the not a real faction

[DavicusPrime]

Between the Spanking Spoon and Trixie's Gremlin Lure, I'd do the same thing if I hadn't already been hooked on the green swamp psychos of joy.

 

My next terrain project: Granny's Pig-A-Q Pit and Slop Shack!  YEEHAW!!!

 

-DavicusPrime