Faction Identities

[Gorbad]

Low movement shenanigans is sort of the Arcanist's hallmark, outside of Showgirls and Marcus.

 

You also got a model like the captain that can push models around. And there are no reason why someone like Angelica couldn't make an appearance in many different crews. To me, out of activation movement is one of the things that Arcanists do. 

[Ratty]

Do the Miners and the Soulstone Miner still have silly maneuverability?

[The Zinc Lich]

Alright, in deference to people defending the Arcanist's movement, I'll change the info in the first post. A question to people, then: if the Arcanists aren't the slowest faction, who is? The Guild, perhaps? They are the only ones without access to a lure-style effect, although they have all those chain weapons.

 

Do the Miners and the Soulstone Miner still have silly maneuverability?

 

The miners don't; false claim now drops two scheme markers, but you have to remove one at the end of turn. Soulstone miner still gets wherever you want it.

[Ratty]

I don't think they are awful movement-wise, I would agree Guild has less than Arcanists, Colette is fast, so is Marcus. Guild have a few fast models, but very few fast crews. But truthfully Rezers aren't the fastest faction around, summoning partly mitigates it and Kirai is quite fast, but I wouldn't call them overall fast.

[Dracomax]

Honestly, Guild have a lot of movement tricks spread around too. Judge has his push, the austringers have a 2" push, there was a whole thread here somewhere about it. They just don't move others around as much as some other crews.

[Kadeton]

Mobility has increased and leveled out across the whole model range, though - the "slow" Factions are only marginally slower than the "fast" Factions overall.

 

A Rasputina crew with Snow Storm and the Captain is plenty fast.

[Daysleeper]

I think while it may be tempting to think in faction-terms, because it can be done for most other wargames, it's just not applicable for malifaux. The posts in this thread imho show clearly that basicly every faction can do everything. But only seamus can back alley, only sonnia can burn down an army and raise a new one while doing it and only von schill can take his shirt off. So you you have to look at masters instead of factions.
Sure there are masters who most of the times will be faster, harder hitting, trickier than others, but thats just not a factionspecific thing.

[Dracomax]

And McCabe is still the only man in Malifaux to know how to get off of a horse....

 

 

will that ever stop being funny?

[The Zinc Lich]

I think while it may be tempting to think in faction-terms, because it can be done for most other wargames, it's just not applicable for malifaux. The posts in this thread imho show clearly that basicly every faction can do everything. But only seamus can back alley, only sonnia can burn down an army and raise a new one while doing it and only von schill can take his shirt off. So you you have to look at masters instead of factions.

Sure there are masters who most of the times will be faster, harder hitting, trickier than others, but thats just not a factionspecific thing.

 

Tell that to the person trying to put together a Neverborn gunline or a guild summoning factory. The statistical differences between factions are a lot murkier than they are in other games, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. While you are playing a specific master in micro for Malifaux, you are still playing a faction in macro, and knowing the general ins and outs can really help when you are considering schemes and such.

 

I don't think they are awful movement-wise, I would agree Guild has less than Arcanists, Colette is fast, so is Marcus. Guild have a few fast models, but very few fast crews. But truthfully Rezers aren't the fastest faction around, summoning partly mitigates it and Kirai is quite fast, but I wouldn't call them overall fast.

 

I don't think that I would rate Rezers below average. Necropunks are, to my mind, the best objective runners in the game, and Belles are the best minions for Lure-type effects. Plus, incorporeal spirits can take a detour through walls and impassable terrain. Maybe the guild are, in fact, the losers for this contest.

[Dracomax]

Perhaps it would be better to list the percieved weakness of a faction, then?

[Daysleeper]

Tell that to the person trying to put together a Neverborn gunline or a guild summoning factory. The statistical differences between factions are a lot murkier than they are in other games, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. While you are playing a specific master in micro for Malifaux, you are still playing a faction in macro, and knowing the general ins and outs can really help when you are considering schemes and such.

 

I would argue that that's not the "right" way to think about malifaux at all.

You don't just put together a shoot- or summoning-list. You have to think one level deeper.

Why do i want to shoot? What triggers do i want to have? Not just what model do i want to summon but rather what purpose does this model have? Does the model need to deal a lot of meleedamage or must it grab an objektive? Does it need to survive the next round? and so on ...

All these thoughts are important during the game and before while composing your list. I dont think it's the most effective way to build a list just to shoot/summon. This level of simplification is just not what will get you the most out of malifaux and because of that you can't just classify whole fractions within a few lines of text, but have to look at each master or even better each modell individually (wich is one of the things i realy love about malifaux).

... but that's just my opinion, everybody has it's own style.

[Ratty]

Agreed.. however different factions do objectives differently, If for example Guild want to hold an area, they will approach it in a different way to Rezers.

[Hateful Darkblack]

One thing I've noticed about Outcasts as a faction: They often (not always, but often) tend to have a lot of activations: Tara gets multiple activations herself, Leveticus usually has two or three extra activations from Waifs and Abominations, Hamelin gets a lot of activations from Rats and Stolen. The Viktorias are often an exception, having few activations, and Von Schill and Misaki have average activations usually.

 

But Outcast crews often end up out-activating crews from other factions.

[Justin]

This sounds like the basis for one of those "personality test"-type quizzes, which would actually be pretty neat and interesting, and possibly a handy tool to give new players an idea of which Masters might suit their preferred playstyle. If it were based on a branching tree of increasingly specific questions, the player would only need to give 5-6 responses to get a pretty good idea of who would suit them.

 

Hmm. HMMM.

 

Or a flow chart....

 

Do you like shooting?

         I

         I

        V

      Yes

        I

        I

       V

Do you like blowing yourself up?

    I                        I

    I                        I

   V                       V

  Yes                    No

   I                         I

   I                         I

  V                        V

Gremlins             Guild

[Mako]

Hah, I so want to see that now...

 

What would be the questions?

[The Zinc Lich]

Updated the OP just a little.

 

Hah, I so want to see that now...

 

What would be the questions?

 

How does this sound:

 

A: How do you feel about being a jack of all trades, if it means you are a master of none?

-I want access to every possible way to win. Outcasts are the faction for me.

-I'll trade versatility for power. Go to B.

 

B: Do you mind giving up ranged dominance as an option?
-Yes, I mind! I want to keep my options open. Go to C.

-Na, that's okay. Victory is all the sweeter when you can see the hopelessness in their eyes up close. Go to F.

 

C: How much do you want synergy to dictate what you bring in your crew?

-I want all the synergy. I don't mind if a big chunk of my points are reserved for a theme if it makes my overall crew stronger. Go to D.

-Meh. I won't turn it down, but I want every piece I bring to be able to stand up for itself. I'm signing on with the Guild.

 

D: How do you feel about hiring stuff from other factions?

-I would like to play with all the toys, from every faction. Get me some Ten Thunders

-I want to show a united front in the face of adversaries. Go to E.

 

E: How do you feel about your crew sometimes, uh, blowing itself up to achieve an objective?

-Hey, whatever works. Give me a 20 pack of Gremlins, please.

-Killing my models should be the opponent's job, regardless of what the objective is. I'd like to sign up for the Arcanists, please.

 

F: How important is summoning to you?

-It is all I want to do! If I can have more models on the table than when I started with, I'll be happy. Looks like I'm a Resurrectionist!

-It's a nice tool to have in the box, but it isn't vital. Sounds like I'm a Neverborn.

[MasterDisaster]

Outcasts:

 

-very limited access to highly survivable models.

 

I'd argue they have some of the most durable models. Lazarus is an absolute tank! As is the Freikorps Strongarm Suit. Taelor is definitely a tough nut to crack as well. Many of their mercs are quite durable. Ronin for example are fairly tough little buggers for 6ss. Killjoy can be incredibly durable so long as he keeps on killing as well, they also have access to arguably the best healer in the game with the Freikorps Librarian who can use her heals twice per turn so long as the Master is an Outcast when that is combined with their Survivalist upgrade the Master gains  to Healing Flips and HtK. 

[Ratty]

Having played my Von Schill for the first time last week, they are one of the toughest crews I'vr played. It's not often you see Misaki run in and do nothing for 3 turns... and even some of the other mercs for example Taelor, Hard to Kill, Hard to Wound decent Df...

[Drool_bucket]

Per my original post, I don't think you can really ask very specific questions, instead they have to be broad and understand that they are generalizing.  If you get too specific apparently the Arcanists and Outcast players get offended real quick! 

 

Or you could head over to The Guessing Zero Network and read their latest Fridaux http://guessingzero.com/fridaux18/ where Lucidicide does an awesome breakdown of both Factions and Masters!

[Dracomax]

E: How do you feel about your crew sometimes, uh, blowing itself up to achieve an objective?

-Hey, whatever works. Give me a 20 pack of Gremlins, please.

-Killing my models should be the opponent's job, regardless of what the objective is. I'd like to sign up for the Arcanists, please.

Huh. Apparently Ramos is a gremlin. Who knew?

[Dirial]

Huh. Apparently Ramos is a gremlin. Who knew?

 

That hair is perfect for hiding the ears!

[The Zinc Lich]

I'd argue they have some of the most durable models. Lazarus is an absolute tank! As is the Freikorps Strongarm Suit. Taelor is definitely a tough nut to crack as well. Many of their mercs are quite durable. Ronin for example are fairly tough little buggers for 6ss. Killjoy can be incredibly durable so long as he keeps on killing as well, they also have access to arguably the best healer in the game with the Freikorps Librarian who can use her heals twice per turn so long as the Master is an Outcast when that is combined with their Survivalist upgrade the Master gains  to Healing Flips and HtK. 

 

 

Having played my Von Schill for the first time last week, they are one of the toughest crews I'vr played. It's not often you see Misaki run in and do nothing for 3 turns... and even some of the other mercs for example Taelor, Hard to Kill, Hard to Wound decent Df...

 

Yeah, it was fairly early in the morning when I changed the post. Perhaps "very limited" is the wrong word for it, as the Freikorps are all fairly resilient. I was thinking of Tara and Hamelin, who don't bring along much beef in their sub-faction. The thing that I noticed is that everything that they have with serious defensive power is 10 stones or more. How common that is, I am currently investigating. Again, I'm still digesting the pool of models, sorry for getting this stuff wrong.

 

Maybe I should have said that they have limited access to ways of increasing defense. Survivalist IS a great upgrade, but it doesn't increase the actual defense of the model in question, like lead-lined coat does for Guild or Imbued Protection does for Arcanists. There is no way to decrease the likelihood of the Viks, the Nothing Beast, or Nix getting turned into a smear by opposing heavy hitters. As far as I know, there is no ability that they have that increases the defenses of their models, either. I suppose the Hodgepodge Effigy counts, but still...

 

 

Per my original post, I don't think you can really ask very specific questions, instead they have to be broad and understand that they are generalizing.  If you get too specific apparently the Arcanists and Outcast players get offended real quick! 

 

Or you could head over to The Guessing Zero Network and read their latest Fridaux http://guessingzero.com/fridaux18/ where Lucidicide does an awesome breakdown of both Factions and Masters!

 

Thanks for the link! Yeah, the people in this thread have been good about telling me I'm wrong

 

Huh. Apparently Ramos is a gremlin. Who knew?

 

It is certainly more shocking than Marcus' apparent super secret Ten Thunders membership, anyway.

 

While Ramos DOES like to blow up his stuff, someone who is looking forward to kamikaze madness might be a little disappointed with the rest of the Arcanist stable. Clockwork Doves don't hang around very long, but it just isn't the same.

[Ratty]

Yeah, it was fairly early in the morning when I changed the post. Perhaps "very limited" is the wrong word for it, as the Freikorps are all fairly resilient. I was thinking of Tara and Hamelin, who don't bring along much beef in their sub-faction. The thing that I noticed is that everything that they have with serious defensive power is 10 stones or more. How common that is, I am currently investigating. Again, I'm still digesting the pool of models, sorry for getting this stuff wrong.

It's where you come from with Resilience and Toughness. For example Leviticus is really hard to kill and his minion just keep on coming wave after wave.

Tara when you see the crews she runs with most of the time is fairly tough, the small guys are incorporeal which makes them actually one of the tougher cheap minions in the game, also you will generally see her run with things like Taelor, Hannah and Killjoy all of which take a beating.

I will agree with you on Misaki, her crew is kind of glass cannon-ey, however again people tend to use Mercs with her when she runs with Outcasts which can severely skew this.

Jack Daw's crew is fairly tough, Drowned and Crooked men at fairly tough and Guilty with HtK and Df6 are no slouches in the toughness camp.

Hamelin is ofc swarmy, and rats will die in droves.

[Dracomax]

Honestly, I don't think most of the gremlins blow themselves up either. And fire/ice gamin are also arcanist.

 

If I were to describe the factions, it would be closer to

Arcanists: lots of Ca actions, giving you a choice between summoning, blasting, or altering your own crew

Gremlins: High risk/High reward play, Where Succeed or fail, you do so spectacularly

Outcasts:tricky play with different focuses. hard to pin down, as each outcast master has a completely different specialty.

Neverborn:hit hard, but don't do ranged well. Monsters.

Guild: undead cowboys. (everyone is thinking it. come right out and say it.)

10T:cross faction play

Ressers: a lot of summoning and tough models.

 

I just really think that trying to classify the factions breaks down because several factions have no real identity. Arcanists really break down into 3-4 subfactions, Outcasts have no real faction identity at all, 10T is made of all factions, and even Neverborn have enough variety that you can't just say "big, fast hard hitting monsters" any more.

 

If I were going to try, I'd start by listing out all the masters by faction, and what they facilitate in their crews in that faction, then pick out the points they have in common, and the points that the fewest have for their weaknesses.

[Ratty]

I think Outcasts real identity is specialization, almost all their models are specialized to either work with a specific Master or be really good at one thing. Which is kind of the flipside to the Guild, where most of their models are fairly solid all round and work with all Masters fairly well.