Faction Identities

[The Zinc Lich]

Hello all,

 

I'm just getting back into Malifaux again after a long hiatus (since Rising Powers, actually). I durdled around with a bunch of different proxy stuff during the beta, and I'm now seriously considering a change of factions. I have a bad habit of buying into armies that I think look cool, but I don't actually like playing, so I'm going to look before I leap into 2e.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately, I suppose, depending on your point of view), either the Malifaux factions don't have the same strong mechanical design choices as other games, or I just don't have as good a handle on the rules. I was wondering if I could pick the brains of players a little more experienced than I am in defining what the game play identities of the different factions are.

 

I've managed to gather the following points so far. Please let me know if I am getting any of them wrong.

 

The Guild:

-Powerful, varied shooting attacks.

-High base stats

-Above average resilience.

-Low movement shenanigans.

-almost no summoning ability.

-magic designed to deny enemy options

-Masters that don't demand a lot of synergy in their model choices

-Strong scheme marker production and control.

-Primarily living, constructs as secondary

 

Resurrectionists:

-Incredibly high summoning focus. All Resser masters summon in some way

-Terrible shooting attacks

-mid-to-low base stats

-average to above average model toughness.

-moderate movement shenanigans.

-moderate poison focus

-moderate terror/wp focus

-Balances low stats with debuffing effects.

-masters don't demand a ton of synergy in model choices (they can mostly summon the models that synergize the best with them.)

-strong objective running

-Primarily undead and spirits

 

Arcanists:

-moderate summoning focus

-moderatly strong shooting

-high end survivability.

-Moderate movement shenanigans.

-moderate stats

-strong burning focus

-powerful offensive damage spells and defensive buff spells.

-Masters have universally high Cst scores

-Masters demand very strong synergy choices in models. There isn't a lot of crossover between a Ramos list and a Marcus list, for instance.

-Average scheme marker control.

-Primarily Constucts, Living as secondary.

 

Neverborn:

-above average summoning ability, several non-master summoning models.

-almost no traditional shooting.

-highly uneven stat lines. 

-extreme movement shenanigans.

-High wp focus.

-Masters demand moderate synergy in model choices.

-Excellent objective running options.

-Primarily Living, Constructs as distant secondary.

 

Outcasts:

-Radically different crew playstyles based on masters.

-Moderate-to-strong shooting.

-definite line between cheap, efficient minions and strong enforcers.

-limited access to ways of boosting defensive stats.

-limited durability of anything less than 10 points.

-Masters vary highly. Levi and the Viks have absolutely nothing in common, statistically or play style.

-moderate-to-good objective options.

-varied model types.

 

Gremlins:

-Moderate summoning abilities. Several strong non-master summoning options

-Super weak base stats.

-high average speed, above average movement shenanigans.

-Incredibly powerful, but random or self-destructive triggers.

-magic and abilities focused on negating the previous two points.

-Almost entirely living.

 

Ten Thunders:

-Each master borrows the "identity" of the faction they are Dual with.

-Models tend to be focused on what they can do. An Archer does nothing in melee, a torakage is purely a solo ninja.

-Easy access to positive conditions.

-play style and crew content varies wildly based on master choice.

-Masters demand *extremely* high synergy choices when it comes to list selection. A large portion of a master's favored choices are probably not even available to the other masters in the faction.

-Tons of dual-faction models.

[Sybarite]

Pretty nice summary actually  Well done! i would probably add "lots of models with armour" to the arcanist list.

[Drool_bucket]

I actually think your list is too comprehensive and begins to tell "white lies." And I am not bashing your list, because it does capture a bunch of the spirit of what they do, but there are so many outlyers in each faction that it's hard to pigeon hole any of them.

 

For instance, Guild.  They are strong Range attack with a few roadblock models.  Well, that may be true until you get to Hoffman in which his crew can very easily have very little shooting, and what shooting it does have is usually used to bring models into Hth.

 

While we are on Guild, I think you are missing Scheme Marker manipulation.  From lowly Guard up to Lucius himself the Guild usually have a method for working with or around scheme markers.

 

And Sonnia can summon a bit with her Upgrade.  (Ressurection?)

 

Then you have Arcanists listed as little scheme running.  We'll I'm pretty sure Ramos players would argue that Steam Arachnids are excellent objective runners, if only because they are cheap, defensive, unimpeded and easy to Summon?

 

Neverborn moderate shooting?  Illuminated can do it as can Tuco... but I would rank their shooting as bad as Ressers.

 

So, I appreciate your breakdown and don't disagree that you catch a lot of the themes, but with so many variables I think the list can also mislead.  If I was trying to accomplish a task like this I would almost do a Q&A with elimination for new players.  For instance:

 

Do you like Shooting? If Yes, Guild, Outcasts or Gremlins.  If No, then Resser, Neverborn, Arcanists.  Indifferent, 10T.

Do you like Summoining? If yes, Resser, Arcanist Neverborn.  If No, Guild, 10T.  Indifferent, Outcasts, Gremlin

Do you like elite models? If yes, All but Gremlins.  If No, Gremlins,

Do you like in-Faction model synergy, Do you like movement tricks, Do you like Defense or Offense?

 

and do like 10 questions, figure out the idea of what the new player likes.

 

And this of course only happens if the player can't choose something by looks, because that still remains the best way to play Malifaux. 

[dgraz]

Pretty nice summary actually  Well done! i would probably add "lots of models with armour" to the arcanist list.

Ditto. The "No summoning" of Guild is accurate for everything except Sonnia. Sonnia is actually one of the best summoners in the game. I played a game just last night, and summoned 3 Stalkers on turn 2.....and 3 more by the end of the game......30 ss worth of models...(probably could have had more, but didn't need them....so no reason to spend the resources)....not too shabby.

[Ratty]

Gremlins have no Elite models? Bert Jebsen begs to differ (so much pain, my poor Guilty).. But I would say most people at the moment play them swarmy, but before M2E they only had a Master and a Henchman. I wonder if things will change once the rest come out. Zoraida definitely wants to run some Elite models, as it just makes Obeys better.

I would say the definitive Gremlin traits are

• Living Fast, Dying Young, a lot of stuff hurts themselfs to do more damage, they can also take damage to get more AP.
• Healing to mitigate this.
• Card manipulation, they get a lot of card drawing, and Bayou Two Card appears a lot too.
• They also get quite a bit of summoning, but it's normally of low power models, piglets/Bayou Gremlins and normally leaves both the summoner and the summoned model on low health. Also unlike most factions a lot of the Summoning is not on Masters.

[decker_cky]

Then you have Arcanists listed as little scheme running.  We'll I'm pretty sure Ramos players would argue that Steam Arachnids are excellent objective runners, if only because they are cheap, defensive, unimpeded and easy to Summon?

 

Not to mention Molemen, which are among the best in the game regardless of synergy (and Marcus having Silurids as another top choice).

[Dumb Luck]

The most important point about Gremlins that has been overlooked (and their greatest strength) is their speed. They can pick some of the better objective guys from Neverborn and have a raft of speedy minis in faction too.

 

I think you will see a shift away from swarmy lists, perhaps even the inclusion of one or two Gremlins for the more expensive but quicker models like Merris or the Chickens. Lists were generally only like that before because one of our Leaders was god awful and the other only (really) had one list she worked with.

[Ratty]

The most important point about Gremlins that has been overlooked (and their greatest strength) is their speed. They can pick some of the better objective guys from Neverborn and have a raft of speedy minis in faction too.

 

I think you will see a shift away from swarmy lists, perhaps even the inclusion of one or two Gremlins for the more expensive but quicker models like Merris or the Chickens. Lists were generally only like that before because one of our Leaders was god awful and the other only (really) had one list she worked with.

 

My local Gremlin always likes a War Cock amongst his crew, and it seems very good for it's points. Corn Husks + Piglet Generation also looks great for Scheme dropping. But yep they are very fast due to the Reckless.

[Dumb Luck]

With the right board, a pair plus Merris can get very silly, very quick.

[Kadeton]

So, I appreciate your breakdown and don't disagree that you catch a lot of the themes, but with so many variables I think the list can also mislead.  If I was trying to accomplish a task like this I would almost do a Q&A with elimination for new players.  For instance:

 

Do you like Shooting? If Yes, Guild, Outcasts or Gremlins.  If No, then Resser, Neverborn, Arcanists.  Indifferent, 10T.

Do you like Summoining? If yes, Resser, Arcanist Neverborn.  If No, Guild, 10T.  Indifferent, Outcasts, Gremlin

Do you like elite models? If yes, All but Gremlins.  If No, Gremlins,

Do you like in-Faction model synergy, Do you like movement tricks, Do you like Defense or Offense?

 

and do like 10 questions, figure out the idea of what the new player likes.

 

This sounds like the basis for one of those "personality test"-type quizzes, which would actually be pretty neat and interesting, and possibly a handy tool to give new players an idea of which Masters might suit their preferred playstyle. If it were based on a branching tree of increasingly specific questions, the player would only need to give 5-6 responses to get a pretty good idea of who would suit them.

 

Hmm. HMMM.

[dgraz]

That would be awesome.

[PointBlank]

For some reason the notion of a quiz has made me think of:

 

1. Collect Underpants
2.  ?
3. Profit

[zFiend]

Um, I would kinda disagree a bit on the low summoning on Neverborn's as to my liking they have one of the best summoner's in the game, The Dreamer, sure he only summons Nightmares but still he's awesome

[Bengt]

For me a Master based listing would have been more useful than a faction based one. As it was I ordered my first crewbox entirely based on looks, but there were a couple of different ones I found aesthetically interesting. If you spend a lot of time on the forum first or buy the rules first I guess you can find this information, but I think a "Having trouble choosing your first Master?" sticky in the new player forum with a short write up for each master would be useful. Both how they play and a little something about their fluff, and perhaps some suggestions on first additions to the crew.

[Dracomax]

Ditto. The "No summoning" of Guild is accurate for everything except Sonnia. Sonnia is actually one of the best summoners in the game. I played a game just last night, and summoned 3 Stalkers on turn 2.....and 3 more by the end of the game......30 ss worth of models...(probably could have had more, but didn't need them....so no reason to spend the resources)....not too shabby.

 

I have to disagree with this statement. The most I've ever managed with Sonnia was around 5 Witchlings, so 25SS worth of models.

 

With Ramos, I consistently get at least 10 Spiders out, so at least 40 SS of models. And if I bring a crew designed for it and/or take the electric summoning upgrade, that goes up by at least 3-5 models. I hear Nicodem is pretty boss too, but I haven't had a chance to see him in action since the beta.

[Dracomax]

For me a Master based listing would have been more useful than a faction based one. As it was I ordered my first crewbox entirely based on looks, but there were a couple of different ones I found aesthetically interesting. If you spend a lot of time on the forum first or buy the rules first I guess you can find this information, but I think a "Having trouble choosing your first Master?" sticky in the new player forum with a short write up for each master would be useful. Both how they play and a little something about their fluff, and perhaps some suggestions on first additions to the crew.

THis. I think the problem with this idea is that every faction has some of everything. Some factions have more of a certain thing, but saying if you want this, don't go Faction X is really general, and misses a lot. It can give you a general idea, but there will be someone in faction that has other ideas. (Burt Jebsen and the Whiskey Golem using the disposable minion/no elite example)

[Ratty]

I have to disagree with this statement. The most I've ever managed with Sonnia was around 5 Witchlings, so 25SS worth of models.

 

With Ramos, I consistently get at least 10 Spiders out, so at least 40 SS of models. And if I bring a crew designed for it and/or take the electric summoning upgrade, that goes up by at least 3-5 models. I hear Nicodem is pretty boss too, but I haven't had a chance to see him in action since the beta.

I think the thing that makes Sonnia's summoning so strong is it costs her no AP, it's a side effect of doing damage and other stuff she wants to be doing anyway. A bit like McMourning's summoning.

[Dracomax]

I think the thing that makes Sonnia's summoning so strong is it costs her no AP, it's a side effect of doing damage and other stuff she wants to be doing anyway. A bit like McMourning's summoning.

It still costs her SS or cards, and I like SS and cards. I'm not saying that it isn't strong. just that I don't think it is the strongest summoning in the game. I'd love to see a summoners tournament, where all the summoning masters get together and fight to see who can summon the most models and still complete objectives.

[Ratty]

It still costs her SS or cards, and I like SS and cards. I'm not saying that it isn't strong. just that I don't think it is the strongest summoning in the game. I'd love to see a summoners tournament, where all the summoning masters get together and fight to see who can summon the most models and still complete objectives.

It's normally a couple of low cards, it's not the worse thing in the world, and she really doesn't have a lot of use for low cards elsewhere in her builds.

[The Zinc Lich]

Thank you for the quick replies, everyone! I'm updating the first post with the new information.

 

I actually think your list is too comprehensive and begins to tell "white lies." And I am not bashing your list, because it does capture a bunch of the spirit of what they do, but there are so many outlyers in each faction that it's hard to pigeon hole any of them.

 

For instance, Guild.  They are strong Range attack with a few roadblock models.  Well, that may be true until you get to Hoffman in which his crew can very easily have very little shooting, and what shooting it does have is usually used to bring models into Hth.

 

While we are on Guild, I think you are missing Scheme Marker manipulation.  From lowly Guard up to Lucius himself the Guild usually have a method for working with or around scheme markers.

 

And Sonnia can summon a bit with her Upgrade.  (Ressurection?)

 

Then you have Arcanists listed as little scheme running.  We'll I'm pretty sure Ramos players would argue that Steam Arachnids are excellent objective runners, if only because they are cheap, defensive, unimpeded and easy to Summon?

 

Neverborn moderate shooting?  Illuminated can do it as can Tuco... but I would rank their shooting as bad as Ressers.

 

So, I appreciate your breakdown and don't disagree that you catch a lot of the themes, but with so many variables I think the list can also mislead.  If I was trying to accomplish a task like this I would almost do a Q&A with elimination for new players.  For instance:

 

Do you like Shooting? If Yes, Guild, Outcasts or Gremlins.  If No, then Resser, Neverborn, Arcanists.  Indifferent, 10T.

Do you like Summoining? If yes, Resser, Arcanist Neverborn.  If No, Guild, 10T.  Indifferent, Outcasts, Gremlin

Do you like elite models? If yes, All but Gremlins.  If No, Gremlins,

Do you like in-Faction model synergy, Do you like movement tricks, Do you like Defense or Offense?

 

and do like 10 questions, figure out the idea of what the new player likes.

 

And this of course only happens if the player can't choose something by looks, because that still remains the best way to play Malifaux. 

 

Ironically, the difficulty in pigeonholing the factions is exactly why I am making this topic. I got into M1E with Marcus; I loved the model, I loved how wide his crew choices were, and I loved that he was the eternal underdog. Unfortunately, it turns out that HE was the statistical outlier in Arcanists. It turns out that I didn't really want to play with speed 4 casting machines, slow, armored constructs, and hyper-synergy crews. If I had taken the time to investigate the factions a little bit better, I probably would have ended up playing outcasts or something.

 

There are enough models out now that every faction can do what you want. Even the guild can summon models, but if you really like summoning, you're not going to like anyone but Sonnia. Seamus will put out high powered shooting attacks, but you'll have a lot of trouble enjoying Reserrectionists if you want to play a gunline.

 

The only model point I'll argue with you on is Ramos being a powerful scenario master. He isn't weak, of course, but anyone with the ability to summon significant models in high volume is good in scenario. He certainly isn't as good as, say, Nicodem at scenario control, or Molly.

 

Um, I would kinda disagree a bit on the low summoning on Neverborn's as to my liking they have one of the best summoner's in the game, The Dreamer, sure he only summons Nightmares but still he's awesome

 

And they also have some non-master models that do a good job summoning models. I don't know what I was thinking about when I wrote that. Sorry, OP updated.

 

For me a Master based listing would have been more useful than a faction based one. As it was I ordered my first crewbox entirely based on looks, but there were a couple of different ones I found aesthetically interesting. If you spend a lot of time on the forum first or buy the rules first I guess you can find this information, but I think a "Having trouble choosing your first Master?" sticky in the new player forum with a short write up for each master would be useful. Both how they play and a little something about their fluff, and perhaps some suggestions on first additions to the crew.

 

The problem that I see is that all of the "pick a faction" information out there is focused on master based listings. It is fine for beginners and casual games, but if you go to a tournament, you're going to want to bring more than one master. If you only like 10-20% of the faction you pick, you are really hurting one of the main draws of Malifaux, to me, namely the ability to select models for your crew based on your opponent, the terrain, and the strategy. If you plan on branching out of your crew box, it'd be good to know what options you have access to.

[Ratty]

As an Arcanist, I would say Collette, Mei Feng and Toni when she comes out are all a bit more mobile. It's only really Ramos and Rasputina that are really slow casting machines.

[The Zinc Lich]

As an Arcanist, I would say Collette, Mei Feng and Toni when she comes out are all a bit more mobile. It's only really Ramos and Rasputina that are really slow casting machines.

 

Eh, I was more talking about my 1e experiences. Collette was a welcomed change from playing Marcus, but there was absolutely no overlap between the two crews. There wasn't really anything that I liked in Marcus' crew that Collette wanted in hers.

 

As far as 2e table speed, Toni and and Mei can both get around the table at fairly high speeds, but they have no way of speeding up the other members of their crew. Low movement shenanigans is sort of the Arcanist's hallmark, outside of Showgirls and Marcus.

[Dracomax]

And raspy can hit anywhere on the field, and Ramos has a (0) push that gives him pretty decent total movement.

[Bengt]

The problem that I see is that all of the "pick a faction" information out there is focused on master based listings. It is fine for beginners and casual games, but if you go to a tournament, you're going to want to bring more than one master. If you only like 10-20% of the faction you pick, you are really hurting one of the main draws of Malifaux, to me, namely the ability to select models for your crew based on your opponent, the terrain, and the strategy. If you plan on branching out of your crew box, it'd be good to know what options you have access to.

I don't really expect to need any listing once I'm no longer a beginner. I also admit that I do not have a five year plan for dominating Malifaux worldwide! So if my first crewbox doesn't belong to my eventual most numerous faction I don't see that as a problem.

[The Zinc Lich]

I don't really expect to need any listing once I'm no longer a beginner. I also admit that I do not have a five year plan for dominating Malifaux worldwide! So if my first crewbox doesn't belong to my eventual most numerous faction I don't see that as a problem.

 

Unfortunately, I live in a small apartment on a small income. As much as I'd like to buy everything in the game, I don't think that is going to end up happening (sorry, Wyrd...)