Maniacal_cackle

>.> I have to confess that I had forgotten that Will of Cadmus can only be used on a model that is within 12" of Nexus (or ~18" with ideal placement), so that significantly hampers the crew compared to what it could do in my mind. I return to my original sentiment that mobile scheme-y crews might be quite good against the hive.

Cadmus has an incredibly strong front line (nests, husks). Between summons and nests, you have about 28 extra wounds (with hard to wound) on top of your base crew on turn one, and it gets worse from there. Sure, the gunline mowed through a few things and even some important models. But the sheer number of wounds makes it difficult. Perhaps a hyper mobile shooter summoner like English Ivan could do it xD

Oh, and one more major thing - the crew has a "my models are insignificant for you but not for me" thing going thanks to Will of Cadmus, so Nests can score symbols of authority or scheme, but you can't score points for working through their 8 health. EDIT: honestly if you could score points off the nests for recover evidence, public enemies, take prisoner, etc, the crew would suddenly be MUCH easier to handle. Should have given them a "can't take the interact action" and then had Will of Cadmus trigger negate that.

TBH I think both opponents were a bit resigned to defeat. At least the two I saw. Not to say anything bad about them as players (I know Kharnage for example is insanely good), but I wouldn't hold up those particular videos as good examples. That said, the wider set of points that I tried to outline above in response to Adrans question do spell out quite a powerful crew.

Oh, and I haven't even touched on the Will of Cadmus shenanigans, like moving an opponent off a leyline with an after resolving trigger.

My impression of discord conversations is that there are a lot of powerful things, when added together with a good player, combine to be overpowered. You have to deploy around the nests, and then they don't even have to deploy near you once they've had that effect. A section of the board is controlled by the two nests. Archivist adds tons of power. The crew has a very strong summoning engine that screams "come to me or I snowball." The crew has a very strong bubble effect that screams "come near me and die." And then We Are Legion can negate several damage per activation by combining it with shielded, or it can turn damage around onto your opponent with parasite tokens. The moment you get a parasite token the model melts from We Are Legion, and it serves to protect the enemy while it is dying. That said, I've not had my crack against it yet. I hope to challenge Plaag in a week or two when life calms down.

Someone just tried that and really struggled against Plaag, he'll probably post the video later.

Oh, and it is the same artwork I assume? Then yes, very similar!

Oh, is it the same deck?

That said, would be good to investigate all the options against them.

Oh, for sure, I'm coming around on Cadmus (and Ivan). They both have a "don't come within 12"/17" inches and you can live" vibe, similar to pre-nerf Archie except moreso. I think they are probably beatable, but probably only by S tier stuff.

Just watching Plaag live playing Nexus atm. It seems like Nexus struggles with scoring points that aren't near the opponent (although maybe I just haven't seen him doing that), so schemes might be a good place to gain an advantage against Nexus?

When do the next pairings go up? Looks like 3 more days going by the discord server?

Oh, for sure, I don't think this is necessarily demonstrative of a need for a nerf (and I think Kharnage may be on tilt, as he fully admits he is quite salty about it all). Though Cadmus seems pretty nuts! Can't wait to play against them.

Well, it is tricky since you declare crews simultaneously. Should you just never declare Nekima into ES? That said, there's always a bit of an issue of bad matchups, so it does come up. From memory, that was due to hand sculpting (you can draw an extra 8 cards a turn if need be). EDIT: Once only, of course! Flush with cash is once per game per minion.

Not to make it extra confusing with yet another voice, but... Correct. Charge and the followup attack are two separate actions, and can do things like cause you to take damage from hazardous twice. In general, you resolve all effects from the current action before moving onto any further actions as spelled out in the timing section (pages 34-35 of the digital rules, sounds like that is the same section you were looking at in paper). Note that there's been an errata to that section, but it isn't hugely relevant here. Note the rules aren't necessarily 100% clear, so there's different interpretations, and I'm going to do this from memory of the rules so apologies if I mis-cite steps... I would play it that... You declare Onslaught when declaring triggers. Onslaught is an after succeeding trigger (because that's the default for triggers), which means that you resolve it in step 6 of the action. When you resolve onslaught, it generates an extra attack. Deputy is generated at step 5 of damage timing (when the 'after damage' stuff happens). So you resolve Deputy at this step 5 of damage (because nothing else instructs you to resolve it later) Resolving Deputy involves choosing whether to discard a card. If you do, you generate an action at this stage. So Deputy happens at step 5 of damage (and I believe step 5 of actions is resolving effects, which includes damage). So Deputy is generated before Onslaught is, since Onslaught is generated at the end. So the part you're missing is that you don't generate the actions until you resolve Deputy/Onslaught (or at least, that's how I play it). You've found an exceedingly complex interaction, though. Don't worry, most things will be a bit easier than this!

True, it probably wouldn't work out due to logistics. I did quite like the M3E open beta (though was new so didn't contribute much). I'm in the same boat, haven't signed up to be a tester, but that is largely cuz I suck at paperwork xD

I'm based in a small community that is always trying to grow our numbers, and the starter boxes are really going to help! I'm even more excited for them than the boxes I'll be buying for myself. Really good starter choices all around IMO (preassembled, simple crews, reusable versatiles, single faction so you don't have to find someone to split, come with everything you need to play ,etc). My big question is what do we know about the releases for the rest of the starters? Once 3-4 have released, I hope to do another recruitment drive at the wargaming club. Don't really want to start now and get every new person into Explorers Society as the only option 😜 I imagine it'll take at least several months, possibly part of a year?

Also one thing about playing against ES is that they are hypersensitive to me mispositioning models. Last game I mispositioned Dead Rider by about 1-2 inches (because I mispositioned Molly and needed to Ride With Me on her), and nearly lost the game for that one and a half mistakes. ES seem to have such a strong "break LOS or die" thing going which is really brutal to deal with. (Well, Cadmus and English Ivan at least).

Ugh, I have to acknowledge that We Are Legion being reducible by shielded seems... Like an oversight? But I'm sure it was caught in testing. It is just ridiculous. For Emissary, I've not found it particularly problematic yet, but maybe that's just me being lucky enough to have the tools against it. It does seem stupidly powerful against melee/defense duel only crews (and you can tech it in anytime/you don't always know when you'll face it). EDIT: And I mean, if they had introduced it at stat 6 defense, would anyone have complained that it was useless? Most of that doesn't let you go through a building, though. Going to the right side of the building means he can be a bit more picky about attacking you and have a lot more terrain to help him out. But I could be wrong, it is hard to say how these things would go. And I definitely feel for Kharnage. Nekima got a nerf, and now stuff like Explorer's Society (which is clearly VERY strongly tuned) is introduced into the game. A lot of ES models feel like they match pre-nerf power of other crews/models.

Just making my way through the first turn. Some thoughts. Noting of course I have no idea what I'm talking about with Nephilim, but hoping hindsight is 20/20. Would it have worked better if you charged your crew to the right instead of the left (right into the nest area?) It seems like a worst case scenario for Cadmus is if the nests can't get within 12" of an enemy model or do anything useful all game. Going right means you could have abused the building and hopped over, kiting the emissary and his aura. Only the archivist could keep up with you. Also then if you get parasite tokens, he can't drop scheme markers in useful spots when he obeys you. And of course you can get all the scheme marker schemes done over there (or bluff having them). And waiting to engage means you could build up your hand. But maybe that is just the Molly in me, wanting to run from the big fights xD. I'll watch the rest of the video. But it seems like making Cadmus walk across the board is critical.

Anyone know what the schemes were? Recover evidence was the strategy, and I think I hear sabotage and vendetta and three others?

I think the list is archivist, emissary, Mr Ngaatoro, Meredith, spelleater. Started watching the video on a break and have to agree with one thing: ill omens +2 on archivist is stupidly good, especially considering the model would likely be playable even without it. Archivist feels OP, it is my top candidate for complaints at this early stage.

I assume Lilith is the leader in the scenario (so your opponent has to plan around Barbaros), but is Nekima worth taking on top of Lilith? But of course Kharnage knows the keyword far better than me xD Flush with cash can negate attacks, so never mind about Seamus xD McMourning doesn't poison himself out of keyword, so is no more vulnerable than any other model. Emissar: Ressers are set up well to deal with it I think (precise, Ikiryo, disturbing story, but most of all Reap). But I'll watch the video xD Of course, Reap arguably needs a nerf and then there is no way (my) Ressers can beat these crews.

The current perception of ES in general is that they're overpowered, but that may be new faction syndrome. I think Cadmus and Dua/Umbra are the most complained about, but Seeker may be up there too? Overall I like how Adran put it: most factions have models/crews that range from a 3-9 on a power scale. ES have models/crews that mostly range from 6-9. That said, keep in mind that Plaag (Kharnage's opponent) is literally a world champion. Kharnage is also a world reknown player. Their play experience may differ from yours. But... Maybe make Cadmus your third crew 😜 If you're not the most skilled player, having a good crew doesn't make much difference. But if you're the best player in your meta and have Cadmus on top of that, you will crush everyone and everything.