ezramantis

That's an interesting point I'll have to think about. Aren't you getting 150%of 15 pts with a master? Do hired second masters still get 3 AP?

I'm considering using Bad Juju or Spawnmother to lead my swampfiends, but not becausenI think they'll be BETTER, rather because the new player I'm playing with gets quite frustrated with Zoraida. I too have been curious to see how it'll turn out but really I can't help but think of it as a handicap. SS value alone indicates a handicap (going from a free 15ss master to a free 9/8ss henchman). BUT that handicap can let me play my best and not overwhelm a new player.

That's the way I understand it.

It helps me to think of a rifleman lurking at the edge of the woods to shoot a foe in a field. The rifleman has stuff to hide behind but there isn`t enough stuff in the way to obscure his shot. Any deeper than 1" though and it gets tougher to see through the thick.

I made up my own cheat sheets in a word processing program. They have conditions, general actions, cover/concealment rules, ss use, and accuracy charts. Tried to think what would help new players. Make up a set. Takes a little time but you can arrange them however makes sense to you.

I am a player with precious little disposable income. As such, I started playing with the 1st ed rulebook and proxy models. My brother and I tried every master we thought was cool this way until we settled on what we wanted to actually invest in. Now 1st ed had FAR fewer models than M3e but I still do this with new players. I make paper proxies so they can try masters they like. Every one of them has quickly chosen a master and been happy. Even something as simple as a 30/40/50mm flat token with a picture on it lets ya try stuff out. I will also say that choosing a theme you like goes a long way. Even when my masters and models were considered underpowered in M2e I still loved playing them because of the narrative that existed in my mind.

Silurids are awesome scheme runners. Of course they come with her crew box (or at least did in M2e) so maybe not what you were looking for, but still.

That's a bummer. I was hoping I missed something and they actually had some tricks. Any "wall" I make might as well not be there with the 2" gaps. I guess I can create some concealment for protection at least. Just feels like I'm going to be telegraphing my moves if I try to set up ambush points (though that could be a good bluff once my opponent catches on). I love the models and my paint jobs so I'll probably keep playing them. Maybe I'll find something. Thanks guys

So when a model "creates" a marker it cannot be placed in contact with another model (pg 28). So I can't just use germinate to create a marker in base contact with my Waldgeist and a nearby model to increase the range of my tangling roots. I can only create 1 underbrush marker in base contact with my Waldgeist to extend it's Tangling Roots 1" threat range because underbrush markers cannot be place within 2" of one another. (A sad drop from it's 2" threat range and potential 9" threat bubble in 2e) I can't use germinate to create a marker in base contact with one of my friendly swampfiends to help prepare them to use their Ambush action on their activation. (I can only place it nearby so that said swampfiends can move into it on their activation) I can't use germinate to create a marker under an enemy model to slow them down with severe terrain. (I can only make a "wall" with 2" gaps and make them either weave through the forest or have their movement halved by severe terrain) I can't use my Underbrush marker to bridge the gap between my Waldgeist and a nearby piece of severe terrain so that I can attack any model in that severe terrain with Tangling Roots, since the marker and the severe terrain would be 2 separate pieces of terrain not the same terrain. Is this all correct? I'd hate to be hamstringing myself because I've misinterpreted the way the new rules interact with the new models.

Concealing: If a sight line drawn to a model passes through Concealing Terrain, that model has Concealment. When drawing sight lines, a model in Concealing Terrain may ignore that terrain’s Concealing trait if any single sight line drawn between the two objects passes through 1" or less of that terrain. Most fog banks count as Concealing Terrain. Only a model IN the shadow marker will ignore the marker for concealment.

This is one of the most annoying parts of how this game is presented. Don't give me something in one book that uses rules for something that can only be found in another book. Especially one that's not out yet and with no release date! It makes me feel manipulated as a fan. Either put it in the book so that I don't have to reference 3 books to find rules or omit it entirely. Use some of the massive amounts of white space in the layouts to include the rules for what's being presented instead of using it as a teaser to sell books. I'd rather have rules redundancies than things printed that I can't use because I don't have the rules.

Would adding objectives to the combats help? Sure they can kill all the mooks in the factory, but can they shut down the doomsday device the mooks are protecting in time WHILE fighting mooks? They can defend themselves but can they protect the high profile dignitary they've been hired to escort? How about environmental Hazards? Fighting down a ladder that descends into the mouth of an active geyser, the only way into the crypt they are trying to access, could see them fighting with one hand while making strength/balance checks to keep from falling. Add to that checks to avoid taking negatives from the heat and an ongoing challenge to reach the bottom before the next blast of superheated water. Swamps could slow their movement while having them fight off the effects of halucinogenic gasses. Icy conditions could cause them to fall prone. All environments that their assailants are immune to or just more prepared for.

Thanks. I see it now. I guess I was reading the parenthesis as a clarification rather than an addition. I'll never get that wrong again ☺️

See that's where I got unsure. "(Other than this model)" seems to refer to zoraida. If it meant to exclude the target rather than the model performing the action, wouldn't it read "another model (other than the target)"? It feels like voodoo doll got nerfed in this edition and thought this might be a way the designers allowed for it to be somewhat effective, even if it's tricky to pull off the right damage to healing results.

Wanted to check on this before I play it wrong... If I target the voodoo doll with Hex, and declare the "my loyal servant" trigger, I can deal damage to the voodoo doll and then heal it with the trigger (since it is within 3" of the target) assuming I have not killed the voodoo doll.

Thank you.

I scanned the rulebook and didn't see anything. Maybe I missed it. Can a model be pushed off the table edge? I don't remember this ever coming up in a game before tonight when teaching a new player. I've been playing since 1st edition so I figure it came up years ago and we determined "no" and have just always played that way. But I'll be danged if I can remember where I ever saw a ruling one way or another.

I agree with everything Regelridderen said. I always pad my list out with as many of the same minion as possible when playing new players. That way they have to remember the capabilities of fewer models. I used von schill and friekorps vs new players in M2E. My neverborn crew relied too much on trickiness. With friekorps I wouldn't use abilities that broke the basic rules (like being able to charge out of engagement) until the new player had a grasp of those rules. Most of their abilities were pretty utilitarian and straightforward. Things like armor, a decent attack, etc. Of course when playing a Rasputina player it met with some problems because the old friekorps were imune to blast efffects and it negated one of the things that made Raspy cool. So I now look out for that when choosing a counter crew for teaching. Abilities that negate the coolness of the noob are a no no for me. I think it's less about the crew and more about the choices to play somewhat suboptimally and instead set up teaching opportunities. A simple killy crew isn't quite as killy if you don't cheat from your control hand. Heck, a tricky crew is often not as tricky if you let the flip determine whether or not you get your suits. If I found myself too far ahead, I'd sigh at my draw and act like I had shit for a hand, only cheated a few 8s or 9s, and was sure to discard with a low card on top the next round to reinforce my ruse. This also served to weaken my deck if I was discarding high cards. Also maxing your Soulstone pool and then all but ignoring it is an effective handicap. Picking difficult schemes for your list will let you play to the max and put you at a disadvatage that's hard to be called out on. (I've played with people who, right from the start get mad if I look like I'm taking it easy on them. They don't catch this one as quick as a pile of untouched soulstones or consistantly under utilized control hand). The added benefit of this is that you can gauge a players understanding post game, when they mention "yeah, assassinate was a hard one for you. There's no way your guys could pin down my master" or something similar. Those three things helped me not absolutely devastate the only guy I had to play with last year and still let me play who I wanted to (Zoraida) against him (who admitted wasn't strong, but pretty tricksy). They also let me feel challenged and taught me to play better. Sorry if that turned into a weird, rambling lecture. I just kept remembering all my experiences playing vs mostly new players haha. But to answer your question: Von Schill

Oh, and if you grab a 3×3 piece of felt for your table, the felt terrain grips it nicely amd the area terrain ties together visually.

What morgan said. I love using clear plastic to base things. I really like the idea of using it for a fog area. For my area terrain I use a piece of felt. It's cheap at the craft store, can be cut easily to make a variety of shapes, sticks enough to my rough table surface to prevent it from moving during play, and is flat to make play easy. I get heathered felt and do a litttle light painting on it to make it look more terrain like (but not so much that it stiffens). We then "decorate" the area with appropriate terrain that can be moved freely to accommodate model placement. For fog banks decoration you can easily glue stretched out cotton balls to 50mm bases (i cut them out of cereal boxes but clear plastic is cooler. Just might have to use ca glue instead of pva) and use them to fill your area terrain. I've actually been thinking of making a steam vent/pipe/chimney to set in the middle of a fog bank to visually explain it's presence. Not that weird stuff needs to be explained in Malifaux....

You are my hero for the day!

There used to be a wiki called Pull My Finger that had an excellent page on terrain, but I can't find it now. This is what I remember from the page and it has served me well in laying out my tables. approx 1/3 of the table covered in terrain of some type. 1/3 of the terrain should be blocking (so that there are places for models to hide from shooters). 1/3 of the terrain should be severe/impassable (to give shooting models something to "hide" behind and slow the advance of the melee models). And...I don't recall it's suggestion for the remaining 1/3. I've always tried to give a good balance of these two terrain types in M2E because some abilities ignore severe terrain and if there is no severe terrain that ability is worthless. Likewise my brother's meta was heavy on impassable blocking terrain and the tables constantly hindered models with push abilities and helped models like Seamus with his Back Alley tactical action creating unbalanced games. I like throwing in a few pieces of dense terrain like woods (severe,dense) or fog banks (dense) that will totally block line of sight unless one of the models is in the terrain but can still be moved through. Open Severe terrain (like rivers, ponds, or sand/gravel pits) are neat too because they don't provide any concealment or cover but do slow movement.

If it grows the scene I'll certainly be happy. And thanks for the site gnomezilla!

Glad many of you like the new packaging but I, for one, do not. If I end up wanting to buy a single model outside my crew's keyword (or even within the keyword) but have no interest or use for the other models it's packaged with? Now I'm payin' for plastic I ain't playin'. And what's the word on buying models included in the starter boxes? If i want one of the Vics starter minions to supplement my Von Schill crew do I end up paying $50 for that model?

I'm all for having the occasional hidden TN (and in the situation above feel it adds to the game rather than detracts from it). The guys I game with are smart enough to know the odds based on cards in the deck and the typical range of modifiers. So they'll know when cheating leaves them with reasonable assurance that they're not being followed. With even a basic understanding that the possible flips are 1-13 anyone can guess whether it might be worth cheating just to be safe. If it's important enough that they not be followed, it should be worth the cheat card, reguardless of whether or not they know the TN. Is it a 5 important to them, or an 11? It's often said that this rule system is more about narrative and less about "rules lawyering" or "power gaming" by those defending it's sometimes wishy washy explanations and guidance. Having an occasional hidden TN seems in line with this interpretation of the spirit of TTB. What better way to create a narrative of uncertainty than to have ACTUAL uncertainty? If you think your players are the type to stage a revolution and storm out in a huff if you try to introduce a bit of occassional tension and uncertainty into the game, you could use margins of success and failure to "soften" the result. If the hidden TN is 10, maybe a margin of failure would allow them to make another check a few blocks closer to their destination, or give them a hint that doesn't tip them off one way or another. A success would assure them they are (or are not) being followed. If your players are aware that this is how hidden TNs are handled at your table, it may not leave them feeling as uneasy about being denied that knowledge. I do kinda like slokan's suggestion of using the "avoiding the patrols" ongoing challenge as an alternative.