thewrathchilde

He didn't. I messed up that whole sequence. I was typing the report in the middle of cooking ribs........there were some copy/pasta, stop typing and baste, and type some more errors in there. I will fix....I am not sure what I was thinking when I typed that. I think what happened was the double cheat, cheat Red Joker for blasts. Then second attack I couldn't out cheat him, I stoned for damage prevention and he Black Jokered the damage, third attack he cheated and I out cheated him......that adds up right. He ended up with 6 damage on Phiona (Red Joker minus armor) and only blasted on my stuff once. This is nothing close to what I typed above.....not sure what kind of fumes I was inhaling while cooking earlier. Will edit for correctness. @4thstringer in the absence of the crackheadedness in my original post your reply was supposed to be convincing me of the value of Guild Funds and how Nellie gets mileage out of it.

played today against Misaki, game was Public Execution (Standard Deployment) w/Eliminate the Leadership, Dig Their Graves, Undercover Entourage, Recover Evidence, and Public Demo. I played: Nellie w/Delegation, Misleading Headlines, and Guild Funds- Cache (4); The Printing Press, Frank w/Wade In & Lead Lined Coat; Phiona w/Transparency & Lead Lined Coat; Peacekeeper w/Numb to the World, Thalarian Queller, Guild Guard x 2. Disclaimer- this was my first game with Nellie (I Know). I have played lots of Lucius, Lady J, and a decent amount of Sonnia but have always resisted using Nellie up till now. I have provided some feedback on Nellie lists based on theory-faux and my experiences with other models in the list but just didn't have the desire to play her until now- the Iron Scorpious concept for some tournaments (not that I lay a lot of tournaments) forcing me to consider needing 4 to 5 different masters......and my wife got me the Nellie box for Father's Day. I played against: Misaki w/The Storm & Recalled Training0 Cache (2); Yamaziko, Shadow Emissary w/Conflux of Thunder, Izamu w/Hidden Agenda, The Lone Swordsman, a Samurai w/Favor of Jigoku, and a Torakage. I took Eliminate the Leadership and Undercover Entourage for my Schemes. I really debated this choice because Dig Their Graves is so easy with Phiona but I decided even though I had taken Transparency on her to go with Eliminate and Undercover. This would allow to use her other triggers (Head Trauma/Wide-Swing) and would give me more flexibility with her (in my mind). Plus, it's hard for me to not take Undercover Entourage- it just feels like a free 3 pts in most games- unless i am using an alpha strike master that I think I am likely to lose. I also considered Eliminate to be a pretty safe choice since it's pretty much a given that Misaki is "coming in", would be in a position where I could take her, and is pretty important a target to neutralize anyway unless you want blasts all over your crew. I really struggle with taking Guild Funds on Nellie and generally think that just another stone in the cache or a different upgrade might have been a better choice. In theory being able to Evidence farm one turn with 2-3 Scathing Reviews plus her pitch card and the Evidence from the PP could give you the quick +2 soulstones which would potentially provide a lot of benefit throughout the game with either damage prevention, stoning for cards, re-flipping initiative, etc. Using Scathing Review would also possible force them to take Interacts the following turn giving you more Evidence then too but......this didn't see to work out for me though with only 1 x game maybe I should reserve judgement and try it a few more times. Instead my limited experience leads me to believe that you just don't have time or a free turn to do this as even on turn 1 I felt she needed to Incite and spam out Fast w/Assignments People. Maybe if I had played a much more passive and defensive game it would have worked out for me but I just didn't get a chance to use it and there wasn't a single turn where I had more than two Evidence and never had more than 1 left (If that) at the end of the turn- maybe different schemes forcing the opponent to Interact would have changed this. Regardless of how I felt about Guild Funds (still open to discussion and your input on it) the game turned out fine. First turn was some stalling and positioning as I won initiative and forced him to activate first. Then I activated the Printing Press, passed a couple activations and then activated both Guild Guard, before activating anything of importance. At this point by the time I activated the second Guild Guard he was down to a Fast Izamu and Misaki. I had not advanced with anything (at least where he could get to it) so he brought Izamu up and held Misaki for his last activation. I advanced the Queller and hit the Lone Swordsman with Restraining Wand and cheated a 12 of Crows in for Slow to ensure he wasn't going to be doing much next turn plus got Moderate damage on him and waited to see what he did with Misaki- if he advanced then I could jump her, if he hung back then that was going to let me pick apart other pieces of his crew. He advanced with Misaki to position her for the turn 2 strike and put up Deadly Dance to prevent a Fast Frank or Peacekeeper from walking up and Flurrying on her. At this point I was faced with some decisions I had a number fo possible targets- Lone Swordsman, Izamu, or Misaki with the Samurai, Torakage, and Emissary back where it could support but not directly counterattack next next if I went in on any of the targets. I decided Nellie would be my next activation and depending on the success of her spells that would determine what I did next- I only had a couple of good cards left (plus the Black Joker) so forcing through spells would leave me without cards to cheat in for attacks and damage. What I planned was for Nellie to make the PK fast and if successful then hit him with Propaganda (counting on the +2 Armor to keep him from taking a lot of damage) to push him 5" so he could then shoot/Flurry Izamu and then with her other AP I could use Assignments to make Phiona Fast and let her put in work on Misaki since I wasn't worried about the Slow Sowrdsman. Well....that was theory but if practice it took 2 x casts to make the PK Fast so Nellie then walked to Incite the Swordsman to give me a safety valve for next turn and failed to get that done as well. At this point since he was out of activations I ended up activating Frank to El Mayor the Peacekeeper, shoot at Izamu, and then walk to position for next turn. The Peacekeeper went in on Izamu but due to the sheer incompetence of his programmers didn't manage to do more than a few wounds on Izamu. Phioona double walked to engage Misaki (yes I know she has diving charge) and that was it for Round one. Turn 2 he activated Misaki first and was faced with the choice- he could attack Phiona (who was DF 7 in the woods), charge the Queller and be way out of position, or charge Nellie where he wouldn't be able to cheat damage. He ended up attacking Phiona due to his concern over Nellie's Revisionist History and desire to not get here isolated out of position where pretty much my whole crew could jump her if he went after the Queller. Misaki's first attack she flipped, I cheated, she cheated, then she cheated the Red Joker in for damage and blasts. On the second attack he flipped high, I couldn't cheat high enough to beat him so stoned for damage prevention and he Black Jokered the damage on Phiona. On his third attach cheated to hit and I out cheated him causing him to miss. He did do damage to Nellie, Frank, the Queller, and a Guild Guard and had put 6 wounds on Phiona (less 1 wounds from the 7 WD from BJ due to LLC). All in all I was pretty fortunate that I didn't take a lot more damage but even with a second set of blasts everything would have survived and I would have been positions to still execute the plan. With the threat of Misaki out of the way and the Swordsman essentially neutralized it took a lot of pressure off me. I activated the Printing Press and did her thing then waited instead of chain activating Nellie as I wasn't too worried about his positioning. He did make the desperation play with the Lone Swordsman popping his Reactivate to try to finish Phiona. I activated Nellie and made Phiona Fast (plus healed her), made the Peacekeeper Fast, and failed to make the Lone Swordsman slow for his reactivation. Even so the Loneswordsman couldn't get the job done against Phiona. the PK flurried against Izamu and finished him off and then Phiona started beating on Misaki and then Frank came in to help. By the end of turn 2 he was down Izamu and the Lone Swordsman and Misaki though still alive was low enough she wasn't going to survive another turn. With the Emissary, Torakage, and Samurai facing down my whole crew (Yamaziko had been sprinting for the far corner to hide in preparation for Entourage) he was ready to concede but decided to play for a few more activations. I encouraged him to play longer but after losing Misaki and playing the game of passing activations, your stuff is Slow (Peacekeeper Sh and Nellie), and my stuff (Frank/Phiona) is fast it's kind of hard to keep anyone in the game. Theory-fauxing out the rest assuming I couldn't get to Yamaziko he would have ended up with 3 pts for Undercover and I would have had either 9 or 10 (3 for Undercover, 3 for Eliminate, and 3 pts for Public Executions- maybe 4 making some assumptions about finishing the Emissary off on turn 5). All in all not too bad an outing for Nellie; a 9-3 win (10 if I got the Emissary). Still not sold on Guild Funds......and have a few other versions of the list I want to try out (Executioner in one, Allison Dade in one, and some odd ball swaps).

that would never be the plan- I was just pointing out that it is an option in the absence of anything better to do. Typically there is always something better to do; I don't think I have ever actually cast Menace with a Guild Guard. With Hannah it would be a matter of casting something every turn possible to get as much AP out of her as you can. Typically it would be an Aetheric Blast, an Enchant Weapon/Suppression/Restraining, One More Question, Flash the Badge etc but in that odd situation where there is nothing else to do then Menace is better than not Making a New Entry....late in the turn against something with low WP when you have a low Ram to spare then it could potentially be Paralyzed enemy next turn too..... Excellent point. There have been those games where the Commanding Presence (and not being paralyzed) was so critical I have burned a stone to guarantee I passed on Phiona. With her WP not really any risk (much) of that happening. Hadn't really considered her with Papa Loco. Typically I just don't have room for him except for with Sonnia and I haven't considered Hannah in that list.....I don't really have any good CA to copy the way I run it except for maybe Command Stone or Bound By Law depending on whether I have Phiona or the Judge in the list and Papa isn't providing one for her to copy. Generally I think (excluding other Mercenaries) our best things to copy are One More Question (even though you don't get triggers you still get slow), Aetheric Blast, the Queller's actions, and maybe Command Stone or Do You Have an Appointment. With other Mercenaries in the list too it would open up a whole other range of options.

one of the guys mentioned Hannah in the recently played list thread and that got me to thinking about the places I could/would think about using Hannah. The benefits of including her in a list are obvious- an extra card (Arcane Reservoir +1), Counterspell to protect her against some of the threatening spells, Nether Flux, 3" MI Reach, and ability to copy a non-Master (1) CA action. What's less obvious is the down side to taking her. To fit her in you are dropping a beater or multiple support models so losing out on one of your hard hitters and/or losing model count making activation control even more of an issue. She can beat on the enemy a little herself but can't do near as much damage as a Peacekeeper or Executioner. So the big question is whether or not the trade-off is worth it? Is it worth it to lose a little in killing power (and whatever other abilities the model you swap out might have) in order to get the extra card in your control hand (and her other benefits)? This may be worth it with some masters, but may not be either. I have looked at a few different lists and masters to see where/how I could fit her in, where I have (1) CA worth copying, and have tried to evaluate the pros/cons to see if it is worth it. Tomorrow I think I will test out one of these to see how it goes. My first two thoughts were with Nellie and with Lucius. They already can get a 7 card hand so adding in Hannah even further amplifies this advantage taking you to an 8 card hand. With both of these you have/can have (1) CA's worth copying. With Lucius I was considering something like: Lucius w/Deep Pockets & Secret Objectives, The Scribe, Phiona w/Lead Lined Coat & Transparency, Witchling Thrall x 2, Guild Guard x 2, and Hannah. In this list you still have a pretty significant melee threat from Phiona and the 2 x Thralls plus have 3 sources of good (1) CA's to copy (Look Out or Command Stone from Phiona, or Aetheric Blast from either Thrall) but those aren't the only CA's available you can also copy Menace from the Guild Guard or either of the Scribe's CA actions as well (Do You Have An Appointment or Your Mask, Sir). In this list I still have 8 activations, decent melee, multiple sources of casts to deal with Incorporeal, and some tricks (double Command Stone). Only down sides vs. my normal lists are losing the Queller and a Lawyer/3rd Guild Guard/Spellcaster/Investigator (if I drop an upgrade off Phiona). This is the version I like the best and think I will try out tomorrow. I also considered Hannah with Nellie in something like: Nellie w/Delegation & Misleading & Embedded, Printing Press, Frank w/Wade In & Lead Lined Coat, Phiona w/Transparency & Lead Lined Coat, Allison Dade, Thalarian Queller, and Hannah. The easy swaps are drop the Queller to get 2 x Guild Guard or a Monster Hunter/Investigator/etc. The pros as like with Lucius you get an 8 card hand which with Nellie is even more powerful with the ability to pass activations. You also have some good (1) CA's to copy- Command Stone, Restraining Wand, Enchant Weapon, Area Suppression, or One More Question. Between Allison and Hannah that's potentially 3 x Slow enemy models while Nellie stays free to hand out Fast to Frank and Phiona. Alternately it's more Suppression Markers, more "no damage reduction" or any of a number of other options. The down side is in order to take Hannah I am losing out on something like either the Peacekeeper or Executioner. The Peacekeeper is even more survivable against most things (Armor +2, 11 WD, Hard to Wound +1, Terrifying Living 12) has a much more devastating melee attack and also has a ranged attack (Sh not copy a CA) that hands out Slow and he can do it multiple times a turn..... that doesn't even get into a Fast PK performing a Walk/Flurry or Sh/Flurry. The Executioner also is a significant threat that brings a lot of tools into play also. In this specific example Hannah is really just adding more of the same (another Slow) rather than some unique capability or great threat. Obviously there are other configurations of the list you could run that may be better and capitalize off her abilities more effectively but I didn't spend a lot of time really trying to plan it out and wanted to throw this up for consideration and discussion. At first blush the trade-off in the Nellie list isn't worth it to me but the Lucius list might be worth trying out. In Nellie I think my other spam slow list w/Dade and the PK would probably be more effective. I will give it a try tomorrow and report back. Feel free to add to the discussion in the meantime.

yeah, it isn't allowed because the CHild's copy is a (1) tactical action that allows him to take the Master's CA but it isn't a CA itself. That was why I was confused when I saw Hannah in the list. Don't get me wrong, I like Hannah- the extra card, Nether Flux, Counterspell, etc but I almost don't take her unless I have at least 1-2 things she can copy as well. I just feel like I am not getting her points worth if I can't use all her abilities. Same with Vanessa in Outcasts; if I field her I feel obligated to have a construct to take advantage of her Command Construct (0).

Not the child, Hannah. The Child is a given- I play him with Sonnia as well. I assume you just aren’t getting benefit from Make a New Entry.

Hannah and Allison Dade......even more slow.

what were you copying with Hannah?

Phiona provides so much value for the same cost as the other Henchman- these are general comments not specific to Round 1. She is my go to over the Jury almost every time I play (not a direct comparison of the two just she often wins out for beater # 2 in my lists with Frank). For he cost you get Unimpeded, Hard to Kill, Def 7 if she is touching the right terrain (easy to do), + flips to hit against models that have activated, min 3 damage, good triggers. I usually run her with Lead Lined Coat (stapled) and Transparency (trigger to drop scheme markers on her attack) unless I don't need the markers then I can pick up Wrath of the Guild or Debt. She makes dig easy by giving you the scheme marker as a by product of her attacks. She enables Guarded Treasure during the brawl if she is near the line. She gives you markers for Search or Covert by just attacking things in the right zone. I also like her with just about every master and she is often my only Henchman w/Lucius (dropping Scheme Markers to enable the Thralls and Secret Objectives). The Child is a cheap activation and gives you utility. He can copy Flame Blast against targets that aren't real high defense but usually I do use him for Walls. Typically it is about trying to isolate specific sections of their crew to cut them off from being able to support their other models. I don't usually use them to try to block off their whole crew but to channel things into the kill box or separate their models so you can clean them out in zones. Could be really interesting to do a non-traditional Nellie list either with the Thralls as I mentioned above or....... something like Nellie w/Delegation & Misleading Headlines, Printing press, Allison Dade, Frank w/Wade In & Lead Lined Coat, Phiona w/Lead Lined Coat & Transparency (this could go on Nellie), Peacekeeper, and either 2 x Guild Guards or Thalarian Queller..... With Nellie spamming fast and Allison and the Peacekeeper spamming slow early and transitioning to a melee murder beast on turn two it could be really nasty and would be a lot of fun. I am going to have to try that out here in a pick-up game just to see how it performs......

@my .02 for whats it's worth- Round 1- seems like you have a few options here. You can use someone like Sonnia to burn them out of the other quarters as you mentioned above but would prefer to save her for the next round. She is really good at Public Executions as well and that pool looks like a good pool for her crew. I would be more apt to run something like Lady J to chase them down and kill them out of the quarters. If I went Lady J on this my schemes would probably be Undercover Entourage (given) and Dig (Phiona makes this too easy). I have played Guarded in ours and have made it work but I feel it restricts your ability to chase down what you need to in the quarters. Round 2- This would be my Sonnia round backed up by the Malifaux Child, Frank, Phiona, Queeg, Papa Loco, the Effigy, and from there salt to taste.....you can set back and blast them for Public Executions and have your choice of schemes.... Undercover and Eliminate would be my primary choices depending on the opponents crew- if its something that isn't killable then switch to Covert instead of Eliminate. Round 3 is a little trickier for me. I can see Nellie doing well with a kind of non-traditional crew (including a couple of Witchling Thralls) with would give you a lot of quick threat (yank the chain, fast, and frenzy when Phiona drops a marker nearby) of a more standard crew and just write off Public Demo and do for Guarded Treasure and Search the Ruins or Take Prisoner. I could also see this being an awesome pool for Lucius as well. With Commanding Presence and Issue Command the thralls can wreak havoc in close deployment and getting Public Demo with 2 x Thralls plus whatever is almost a free three points with Lucius. Lucius also gives you the counter play to Search the Ruins with Legalese. He gives you a lot of options for this pool and would almost always be my go to for it EXCEPT for the fact that he is also amazing in Symbols of Authority and I would probably rather save him for that round. Round 4- I agree completely. Lucius is made for Symbols. I do concur that the schemes (at least Punish and Undercover) are better for Lady J but I would run her in round one and then with Lucius would probably pick between Covert, Dig, and Undercover.....Vendetta is an option too but I generally feel its a 2 pt scheme not a 3 pt scheme. Like you said, you are going across anyway to get their markers so Covert and Undercover are good choices though you can do about anything. With Guild Intelligence you don't have any issue getting the markers and dropping markers for covert breakthrough and then a late game "What Lackeys are For" bringing in Lucius for the Undercover is hard to stop. If you play a more Henchman heavy Lucius list then you can do Punish also.

well, got a game in tonight with the Guild. Played: Lucius w/Deep Pockets, Secret Objectives, Condescending; The Scribe, Ryle, Phiona w/Transparency & Lead Lined Coat, Witchling Thrall x 2, and Guild Guard x 2. He played (from Memory): Hamelin w/ The Piper & Plague Pits, Stolen, Bishop w/Scramble, Sue w/Return Fire, Johana w/Scramble, Obedient Wretch, Freikorpsman, Desperate Mercenary.....and some other stuff I don't remember including some rats. Strategy/Schemes were: Headhunter, Eliminate, Hold Up Their Forces, Take One for the Team, Recover Evidence, and Vendetta. I took Eliminate and Take One For the Team on a Guild Guard. Game ended up a draw- my fault as I snatched the draw from the jaws of victory. On one turn I failed to measure to verify I had Ryle positioned properly to block him from picking up a head and the Friekorpsman had about 1-2mm of clearance outside of Ryles engagement range to pick it up. When Ryle had charged in on another model in the area I had 1" to spare where I could have moved him further to make sure I had everyone engaged and I thought I had moved him close enough but didn't double check. We had a good game though even though I picked my schemes poorly. In the end of the game I had taken down all his key pieces except Hamelin and blasted at Hamelin with a Thrall's cast three times, Ryle's shoot twice, and a focused Guild Guard to try to get him below half wounds for Eliminate and couldn't get it done- I should have taken Vendetta instead and got the guaranteed two points for it instead. Based on the terrain and layout I thought he was going to have to advance Hamelin further after I got rid of his pits quickly but he stayed back where I couldn't get to him. My other scheme choice was a little questionable as I don't like Take One generally since it depends on you opponent killing the model. I had the Guild Guard sucker in the middle of the table almost the whole game and even used him to block Johana on a key turn to stop her from getting a charge on Phiona but he never did enough damage to knock it down. Not sure what I should have picked instead- he had enough models with rats, etc that Recover Evidence wasn't an option and generally I don't find Hold Up to be very good either. In this case I don't know that it would have mattered either way- either scoring damage on Hamelin or checking the engagement (I thought it looked obvious and had the movement to engage all) range to deny the one turn of Headhunter would have given it to me but I still think there should have been something different with he schemes also. Maybe Hold Up would have been the choice- it can probably be scored more easily with a Lucius crew than most of our crews. All in all it was a great game and against a really good dude to play against. Disclaimer- I don't usually run Ryle in my Lucius crew but wanted to do something different and play a cool model.

on July 7th at the Thunder Mountain Gamers monthly game day I will be running Malifaux demos, have multiple table sets for open Malifaux play and will be running an Enforcer Brawl at 2:00. W: Me on behalf of Thunder Mountain Gamers W: Demos, Open Gaming, and 2PM Enforcer Brawl W: 07 July 12:00-5:00PM W: Cochise College, Sierra Vista Campus, Student Union Building Community Room W: to provide demos for new players, encourage players to come out and play, and provide an opportunity for new players and interested gamers to try out the rules/mechanics in a low key, fun, group environment. I will bring a variety of Enforcers from several factions for interested gamers who may not have their own models yet. If you are in Southeast Arizona come on out and have a good time!

today I went back and played another one of the pools from Baratta's tournament prep thread from last week. Played Headhunter w/Eliminate, Covert, Search, Public, and Hold Up. I used: Lucius w/Deep Pockets & Secret Objectives, The Scribe, Phiona Gage w/Lead Lined Coat & Transparency, Witchling Thrall x 2, Thalarian Queller, Lawyer, and Guild Guard x 2. ( I really wanted to drop an upgrade and the Lawyer to pick up an Investigator but was playing where we don't use proxies). I played against a Storm Misaki list. I took Public Demo (2 x Thralls & Queller) and Covert Breakthrough. Public Demo is such a freebie with Lucius that it was an automatic choice. I went back and forth over whether to take Eliminate or Search as opposed to Covert.... against a Misaki list if you have the tools Eliminate is usually a good option since you know she is coming. Alternately with Lucius and his ability to allow interacts with Guild Intelligence Search is always a good option as well. I ended up opting for Covert for a couple of reasons- (1) with Secret Objectives I will likely be clearing markers and undermining my own Search, (2) in Close Deployment its virtually as easy to get Covert as it is to get Search without the prohibition of markers not being within two- with Phiona she can just about drop everything you need in one turn w/Transparency. Worked out pretty well. Won the flip for initiative and was able to run down the clock on activations that matter- I had 9 to his 8 and forcing him to go first put me in a position where on his last activation (Misaki) I still had Phiona and a Thrall left. I had deployed back from the line with most of my crew and used blocking terrain to protect the stuff that was up close. I led with Guild Guard and Phona (in deployment not in activations) protected but he Scribe so presenting the expendable wall of Def 7 models (Patrolling Guild Guard w/ +1 from the Scribe) in soft cover and a Def 8 Phiona (Right at Home & +1 from the Scribe). This kind of deployment in coordination with activation control kind of discourages the usually Misaki alpha strike. Compounded by the early "Arrest" of Izamu by one of my Guild Guard he was at a pretty significant disadvantage early. Before his next to last activation I alpha'd an Enchanted Weapon Thrall in and took an Illuminated down to 1 WD, stripping his hand so Izamu couldn't do more than walk once. Then with Misaki afraid to come in and get the counter attack from the other Thrall and Phiona she didn't do anything significant and my other Thrall took out the Lone Swordsman (had got one good hit earlier with an Issue Command) dropping a head back in a safe position for turn 2 and then Phiona went in an took a Samurai down to 1 WD positioned where she would be Def 7 next turn and also separating his crew and isolating the expendables and Emissary from Izamu and Misaki. Turn 2 saw a Thrall finish off the Samurai and Illuminated and the other Thrall pick up a head on an Issued Command and then with the Queller's buff knock Izamu down to where he could be finished by Phiona whose Transparency enabled the Thralls to get in the bonus hits to bring the pain. My crew took some wounds on Phiona, a Thrall, and I lost a Guild Guard as well. But by the end of turn 2 he was down to Misaki, the Emissary, and a Torakage and I had scored 1 from the strat, 3 from Public, and had 2 x scheme markers in place for Covert with heads in place where I could get them on turn 3. He ending up conceding at the end of Turn 2. With the Thralls healing back up on their trigger and me already being pretty far ahead on pts the didn't think he could bring it back. Evidently he had taken Covert as well and I had pinned him in well enough that he wasn't going to be able to get through unless the Torakage just double walked and I had models in place that could chase him down. On turn 3 I would have been able to stall the Emissary and focus everything on the Torakage and Misaki and he didn't see a way to turn the tables- since I was able to keep the position where I was pretty much only presenting Misaki high Def models as options I would be able to save my high cards to shut down Thunder or force him to cheat in his severes just to hit limiting his ability to cheat them in for blasts multiple times during her activation. With her only being able to blast once or twice then I could just shrug off the damage on things that didn't matter, stone with Phiona, or heal back with the Thralls. All in all it was a fun game- I really dig some Lucius in a game of Headhunter- though I felt a little bad for my opponent. We talked after the game about some different list choices and how he could have played it differently and perhaps made a different game of it.

with her it depends on the schemes; with Undercover she helps by being incredibly tanky. Between her native (0) action heal, stones, and the (0) action from the Effigy she usually can effectively tank against all but the most dedicated kill runs and/or Red Jokers. With her in the middle (+ Frank, Phiona, and the Executioner) you should be killing out enough of their stuff that you are winning the extraction battle in most games and moving the Extraction marker in the direction that is advantageous to you. In this case moving it towards their deployment zone to enable you to score Undercover and hit the other corners for surround them. Even though you don't need it I usually drop markers in both my corners first turn for Surround Them just to make it harder for them to deny. I can't score 2 x pts for my own corners but now they have to get to both. Sounds like a good game! A little more experience with Lady J in this type of list and strat/scheme pool and it will come more easily. She is actually a really good match against Lilith. She has all the tools to fight against her (Blind Fighter, MI 7, Condition Removal) and can do really well in this type of game. Awesome! Kirai is a tough match. Glad it worked out for you. Don't sell yourself short. Sounds like you played a tough game and paid attention to what you needed to in order to pull it out. I probably would have considered Public Demo for the second scheme. It is usually easy to score with Lucius pushing Thralls around and can be scored quickly so you can focus on other things. Against a lot of opponents Search is probably a good choice but with something like Nico that can snowball over the course of the game it can be hard to get what you need near the end for Search. It's easier with Lucius enabling Don't Mind Me so you can drop at the end no matter what he has but you still have to get there and have models to do it with. AWESOME! Congratulations. Good report and I am glad we (the forum) were able to add something of value to you in your preparation. Nothing is better than seeing a little more activity lately on the board and some of the good discussion about models, strategies, and preparation for a tournament. Great job with the win!

that's why I pretty much only run her with Lucius in Neverborn- the Primordial Magic, Thousand Faces/Pact/Terracotta, Lelu w/Satisfying Punishment, and Thorn (the Queen's Spies) help offset that. Generally though I prefer to run him in Guild without any of the mimics from other factions.

I have run lawyers with him with success but usually they just don't make the cut......my problem with most of the mimics is that I have to drop something "essential" to fit them in- if I am going to take a beater (Grave, Vogel) then I have to drop something like a Thrall to fit it in and don't think it is usually worth the trade-off. Additionally for a number of them (Graves, Tannen, Doppleganger) you lose the ability to Issue Command since they aren't minions. Typically if I run mimics with him it's when I play Lucius as Neverborn and can't get Thralls and either Frank or Phiona. Usually I run one Henchman with him in Guild (Frank/Phiona/Allison Dade) and everything else is Minions so I have maximum flexibility in how/where I use Issue Command and I try to build the synergy between choices. When I look at the options available by taking mimics form other factions some of them might look good in isolation compared to some of our choices but when I look at the overall interaction in the crew and things like the ability of the Thralls to auto-pass horror duels (Commanding Presence), get an extra attack when a marker is dropped near them (which can be a by product of What Lackeys Are For or Phiona w/Transparency , which in turn also lets the Investigator do her thing and gives a push and a card I just don't see the trade-off being worth it. About the only exception is the Doppleganger. The ability to control initiative can be priceless. When I take her then I am apt to try to fit in the Terracotta as well to protect the Thralls, switch out Surprisingly Loyal for another upgrade (Secret Objectives early and then Legalese later) but generally I just stay Guild pure if I m running him as Guild.

thx, the big thing is not to throw him out there like an indestructible tank. With his ability to discard the upgrade to Charge as a (1) action you can protect him (keep him back, behind terrain, in the second echelon) and then walk charge if needed. A lot of time I am able to just lead with other models and have him as the 2 or 3 punch into their lines and then can often drop the upgrade to give him an extra AP after the charge for either that 3rd attack on a target or to give him an extra AP to attack something else, reposition afterwards, etc. If you get into a strategy/scheme pool with him where your opponent is having to drop scheme markers to score then you can really live the dream with him.

@Baratta, I tried out my version of the Lady J list in the pool you have listed for game 1 tonight just to test out my theory and see how it worked. I played against a "fluffy" Lynch List w/Lynch w/Rising, Work Up, and Burn Out, Huggy with Addict, Yamaziko, 3 x Illuminated, 2 x Beckoners, and 1 x Depleted. He was focusing on resilience on being able to score the strategy, control the marker, and use the Beckoners to drag my models out of position to either be attacked when vulnerable or prevent them from controlling the marker. i took Undercover on Lady J and (against my better judgement) took Inescapable Trap because I felt with the grouping of models in the middle to fight for the marker that Transparency on Phiona would let me score it easily..... this was a mistake. I should have just took Surround them so I could kill first and scheme later and drop markers in the other corners after dragging the marker to the other deployment zone with Lady J. Lady J, Phiona, and Frank dominated the center backed up by the Effigy and the Queller with the Guild Guard providing me with finishers early to score that last point of damage or two in order to make sure I didn't accidentally give away 2 its early from Take One. As it turned oath took Undercover on Yamaziko and Public Demo on the 3 x Illuminated but I killed two of them turn two so he only scored one point from it. He conceded at the bottom of Turn 3 with 1 x Beckoner, Lynch, and Yamaziko as his only models left. I had taken a wound here and there (Lady J took 5-6 on turn 2 but healed back up from the Effigy's buff and her (0) action) and my only casualty had been the Executioner. We talked through the next two turns when he conceded and agreed that it would have ended up a 7-5 win in my favor if I were unable to chase down Yamaziko with Phiona and Frank or if I did catch her and take her below half or kill her that the victory margin would expand in my favor. He scored 1 x point for Extraction, 1 x point for Public Demo, and 3 x points for Endercover. I scored 4 x points for Extraction and 3 x points for Undercover. Had I taken Surround Them instead of Inescapable Trap (like I knew I should) then I could have scored the full 10 pts. I wasn't able to score Inescapable Trap as I killed through his core crew to fast to score it. On turn 2 and turn 3 I "could" have scored it but would have had to choose to not kill his last Illuminated and Huggy which would have let me score the Inescapable twice but would have let him score 1 more point for the strategy and would have given him more models and AP on turn 3 to challenge my control of the center and the marker. I definitely think that at least with Lady J, Undercover and Surround Them are the schemes of choice. If you decide to stay with Lucius then Public Demo is a good option as well with 2 x Thralls and the Queller or Investigator.

I do not take schemes that conflict with the strategy. It is hard enough to play for 10 in every pool and limiting or inhibiting your ability to do so through your scheme selections just seems like an unnecessary handicap. With Show you may be handicapping yourself a key model (Frank/Phiona/etc) that you need to kill out the other quarters and unless your opponent is placing close to the center circle (w/n 6") then your upgrade holders aren't able to influence or support your efforts to control quarters. Similarly I try not to take schemes (when possible) that are dependent on my opponent cooperating with me to score such as Take One for the Team. I try to take things I can score one the basis of my own actions and crew (Undercover, Surround Them, Covert Breakthrough, Recover Evidence) and also avoid things like Inescapable Trap or Hold Up Their Forces that rely on having multiple models of their cooperate with me scoring. I will take some schemes (Public Demo or Set Up) that require proximity to their models to score occasionally but only with specific masters/crews and then limit it to things that can be scored all at once so they can't deny it once I have "tipped my hand". Ideally with Guild I prefer to take schemes that can be scored as a by product of me playing for the strategy without having to dedicate AP to the schemes or that can be scored while I am using the AP to do other things that enable my crew. Ideally I want things that fit within the primary style of play that works for that crew without dedicated effort to do something different. For example, In the example in the other thread about the crews selection for the 3 round tournament I was advocating for Lady J in Extraction w/Undercover and your choice of other scheme. In this case Lady J (and a lot of her crew) want to be in the middle, they function most effectively killing their way into the other crew the strategy requires the opponent to meet in the middle. She and the homies can kill out the center and escort the marker across to the enemies deployment zone for her to score Undercover and score the strategy each turn. Depending on your other scheme selection you can then spread out to drop the last two markers for Surround Them. I think those are the best two choices for that pool with the type of crew I usually play with Lady J. I am not going to take Public Demo because I don't have the right minions to score it without altering my crew (dropping a Henchman to take Thrall), I am not going to take Take One for the Team because if Lady J and her crew is working well then the prime candidates for Take One (the cheap stuff) is often ignored by the opponent who is forced to deal with the big models before their crew is killed out. Then if I take it on the Executioner or something similar most likely I am only scoring 1 pt for it or 2 its at the best instead of the full 3. In the same vein I don't like Inescapable Trap because either it is easy to deny once you score it once or you are killing them out quick enough that you don't have two models close enough together to score it consistently or you are having to choose not to kill in order to score letting them score the strategy. I almost never take Inescapable Trap but decided to take it tonight (I wanted to try our what I was advocating in the other thread in that pool and played my Lady J against a pretty fluffy Lynch list) because I thought with Phiona and Transparency it would be easy to score......and I ended up killing through my opponents Lynch crew in such a way I didn't score a single point from it- fortunately I did get 4 pts for Extraction and 3 its for Undercover and pulled out the win by several points.

I don't disagree that their are situations where the Jury and Scales can be beneficial.... I just tend to get more value out of some other choices. Lady J is mask hungry but usually it's an issue of sequencing for me. I like to activate her late in the turn when I can because she can tank effectively and then maximize her counterattack and built in plus flips when she didn't charge. At this stage I usually either don't have the spare cards to pitch for the masks or even if I do I can't interrupt the sequencing to activate the Scales to replenish her hand. Usually I either hold masks or use stones to get the masks she needs and then get at least get one card a turn back from the Queller. The Jury can provide some limited healing and condition removal but with Lady J you get those things anyway. With the Effigy in the list there is another source of healing for Lady J and for most of the other models in my list the limited healing she provides isn't usually making a difference in life or death for the average model. It's not that I "hate" the Jury; it's just in most cases I find the other options to be better choices. Out of all of the masters we have, Lady J can probably get the best mileage out of her for the masks, the fact she is a Guild Marshall, etc but I find the others fit specific roles for me that work better with the way I play her. I really dig the Executioner and get mileage out of him in every game. He is as/more survivable than the Jury for me and with Love the Job and Unfaltering he usually stays around for a few turns unless they put multiple things into him that can pack in the damage. I am pretty reserved with him and careful not to overextend him early so he can be ganged up on and taken out and a lot of times will try to target things that can maximize his abilities and give him chances to to heal, eat scheme markers, etc. He is suck a great counter to a whole range of marker dropping schemes and can be murder on someone trying to complete Search the Ruins or Guarded Treasure. Doesn't make the way I play her "right" or the only way to play her- just what works for me.

since I already talked a little about the match list/leader to strategy here I will just focus on providing some feedback on the lists themselves. Lucius Crew: I really like the Investigator with the Thralls for the reasons I mentioned earlier- the push, the card draw, and the extra attack you can get with any scheme marker dropper with the Thralls. I prefer the Investigator more than the Austringer and also like the Sanctioned Spellcaster for this slot in some cases. I kind of look at the Queller, Investigator, and Spellcaster as a flex slot that I swap or rotate out based on what I need in most lists- with Lucius I generally like to get 2 out of 3 into my list. Against most opponents it would be the Queller and the Investigator, against Ressers then it is probably the Investigator and the Spellcaster. I am also not a big fan of the Guardian. In its place I usually run 2 x Guild Guard and then save the extra point to get another upgrade on my Henchman or Lucius. The Guild Guard are surprisingly effective against a lot of DF. 4-5 targets and the Halt trigger on their Sh can catch a lot of people by surprise. Also if you switch and run this in Headhunter then their Investigate ability can really come in handy in conjunction with Guild Intelligence to let you deal with enemy scheme markers for either Covert Breakthrough or for Search the Ruins. I am not a fan of the Jury- either with Lucius or with the masters. If I am choosing my priority for Henchman with just about any Guild Master the Jury is my 3rd or 4th pick- I understand that she can give Masks which can be useful for triggers but with Lucius and Devil's Deal you normally aren't going to have a problem when he needs them for his triggers without having to burn an extra card to get them. When you don't need that ability I find Phiona or the Judge more survivable for the points and Phiona or Frank for beneficial for supporting Lucius (either El Mayor from Frank, or dropping markers with Phiona). In my Lucius lists I used to run Frank exclusively to even further buff Lucius so I can run him hear the front without too much concern; lately I have been running Phiona as much or more as I run Frank. It is almost always one or the other for me as I never have the points for both. With Phiona I usually go LLC and Transparency. I take Transparency even in pools where I don't need the markers for strats/schemes in order to capitalize off of Secret Objectives on Lucius when he doesn't need his (0) for Guild Intelligence. For the cost of the Jury you can get Phiona who is better with terrain w/unimpeded, higher defense when touching terrain, comes stock with Hard to Kill, and with the point you save from the Guardian swap for 2 x Guild Guard you can give her Transparency if you switch Lucius's upgrades around. For the Nellie list, as with the others, I would swap out the Jury for another choice. With most masters my Henchman trio (nothing earth shattering or original here) is Frank, Phiona, and the Executioner. I get more mileage out of the Executioner w/Ready to Work and he comes in handy for shutting down defensive triggers and eating scheme markers for me as well. I also am not a huge fan of the Watcher and would be more apt to add a Field Reporter, more upgrades/stones, or something else. The Watcher doesn't seem to add a lot of capability to enhance what the rest of the crew is doing with Nelliie. I would also probably consider swapping out the Austringer for a Queller or some other choice as well. You can always take the basic Nellie list and swap in Nino and a Monster Hunter and with Frank already in the list still be able to shut down Ply pretty well while retaining a lot of offensive capability. The list looks kind of wonky- Nellie w/Delegation, Misleading, Printing Press, Frank w/Wade In & LLC, Phiona w/LLC & Transparency, Executioner w/RTW, Nino, Monster Hunter, and a Guild Guard- but in theory could still be pretty effective and have a lot of punch. I usually think GG are better in duplicate but even in this its still a 3 x stone significant activation. If you can bring yourself to only run 7 x models counting on Nellie's Misinformation ability to make up the difference in activations then you an drop the Guard to take another upgrade on Nellie and add Hair Trigger to Nino....If you haven't had practice with Nino and the Family though to shut down Ply then you might be better off just going with the standard Nellie list. With Lady J I would offer the same commentary concerning the Jury. As above I run her with Frank, Phiona, and the Executioner. The Recruiter can be a great choice with her or the Queller provides another option if you are expecting armor or incorporeal. If you convert the Jury to the Executioner the point saved can go to another stone or upgrade on Lady J like Last Stand. Most of the time I run her with Vendetta instead of the Badge as with the Effigy and her heal it’s pretty easy to keep her full. I am not a fan of the Scales and typically would recommend a second Guild Guard instead. The biggest suggestion I would make is to run her in Extraction and then swap Lucius over to Headhunter as I mentioned in the previous post.

Will provide a more detailed replay later if necessary. my initial reaction is that I would switch the lists to rounds and take your Lady J list in Extraction and Lucius in Headhunter. Lady J is built in terms of damage output and survivability for something like Extraction where she and her crew can control territory and kill anything that comes close. You can take Undercover on her and move the Extraction marker towards their deployment zone so you are getting the twofer out of it without spending additional resources beyond what you already will with the marker. Get while crew moves forward so it doesn’t cost you anything. The second scheme is a little trickier but there are some good options in the pool. Lucius gives more mileage in Headhunter IMO where he can significantly enhance your ability to complete the strategy. The Thralls w/ scheme marker dropper and Lucius waking can get plenty of AP for killing and with Issue Command he can move them over to pick up the heads effectively plus enable them to do it while engaged. Nellie's kind of the “get out of jail” card that can do just about anything. She can do Ply effectively or do any of the others as well. i will add some commentary about the lists when I get time- your choices are perfectly reasonable but there are some choices I would make differently that I will discuss.

Drowsheep gives some pretty good advice and makes some good points. in Ressers I take a different approach to using him and after the key piece use him as a key offensive piece, a controlling piece, and a tar pit more so than an enabling piece for my crew..... except he enables some of them to scheme rather than fight by taking a primary role in enemy engagement. First turn, like most Yan players, I focus on maximizing his Chi in order to prep for shifting to offense on turn 2. I try to do this as offensively as possible rather than just Chi farming off my own models to not only prep him for the future but also help me gain the advantage in other areas as well. Typically if they activate something cheap and expendable that I can drag in first then I will start by luring it in. If they haven’t I am not going to lure something that can just walk back and instead will activate the Goryo, free a Seishin, and position for next turn. Then activate the Seishin and do something pointless that makes him accessible but not in my way. He can also be positioned where you can lure something into them for them to kill (giving you Chi if near Yan) or where you can dance things into later. From there I will activate the Shikome or Yin if I have to but the preferred is to start luring something into charge range. Then charge with the Porter to stack a couple of a Chi on Yan with the trigger on his spear. Then finish it off with Yin or the Shikome to get another Chi and draw a card from Take Back the Night and get a Seishin from Spirit Anchor. Activate the Seishin to burn another activation. Then repeat with the other Belle unless she was needed to help drag in the first target. Kill the target with Izamu tonget more Chi, another card, and possibly another Seishin. If they managed to kill anything of yours then you should have got Chi from that. If not, when Yan discards a card for Chi depending on the situation and how the previous actions worked out that puts you at possibly 5 Chi (2 from the porters attacks, 2 for each model you killed, 1 for the discard). If they killed anything of yours (like the Seishin) then you may be higher; if not Yan can either kill the Seishin himself for more Chi or immediately grab Blood Ascendant and heal your Goryo with your 0 actions or grab Blood Ascendent and Dance something back if in range to beat on it. The safer bet is blast the Seishin with Spirit Barrage and get the extra Chi there and then position for next turn. Through this don’t overextend and play back using the Belles to get targets while maintaining enough space to allow you to hold Yan for mid- to late turn 2. You could be going into turn 2 with Blood Ascendant and 3 Chi- in turn 2 if you can hold Yan for later with Belles and your other models you can stack more Chi on him so you can have the extra AP, grab Bone Ascendant, and then start going to town with CA 6-8 and + flips. Next upgrade grab the survivability upgrades and then just live the dream. The Belles, Goryo, and Chiaki/Shikome can then just scheme run while Izamu, Yin, and Yan put in work. Seishin can heal, Yan can heal, etc. and when necessary you can bring Izamu, Yin, or Chiaki back if you lose them early. This is a lot of fun and has worked well for me in a number of strategies. Disclaimer for the naysayers- 1. YMMV, 2. None of this is guaranteed, 3. Yes, players can play defensively against this to make it harder to drag things in with the Belles, 4. Yes, the Soul Porter or the other ways I get Chi are not guaranteed, 5. Yes, none of this would work in your meta and your lists are better and you are a better player and I only got lucky playing this in a poor meta. Disclaimer to the disclaimer- for everyone not one of the naysayers I apologize for the previous disclaimer. There have been occasions in other threads, boards, pages where I have discussed Yan Lo and the responses prompted me to add the above disclaimer so my Yan Lo fan club wouldn’t feel obligated to points out points 1-5. My .02

it's really dealers choice. Though a lot of people will argue that Nellie is the only master there are several I think are good in almost every strategy. Looking at the masters you have I definitely think you have some gaps in capability and need to add Sonnia and Lucius to your collection. I would add them before I look at anything else and probably add Thalarian Quellers along with them. I am lukewarm on the Jury and very rarely take her even with the masters who can take advantage of the masks like Lady J w/Vendetta. Looking at Public Executions specifically any of the Guild masters and crews can play it though I probably prefer Sonnia as my master of choice depending on the match up and terrain. I also like Perdita, Lucius, Lady J, and Nellie in Public Executions also so it really becomes an issue of what are the schemes and who can best allow me to go for those while scoring PE as well. For Supply Wagons my "go to" is usually Lucius though Nellie can do it with ease also and I have hear rumors of some Hoffman list that can push the Wagon into the next state on the first turn as well though I haven't seen it. Lucius can make sure you get it across the line first turn and help you push their Wagon back across with Guild Intelligence. Any of our masters can play for Ours as well though I tend to favor someone like Lady J that can kill them out of the quarters, Sonnia to blast them off of the quarters, or Nellie and/or Lucius who can chance them down. The biggest issue with Ours isn't what master I am taking but what faction/crew my opponent is taking to make sure I can neutralize anything like Belles or Yan Lo that can pull/throw models into the center after their activation where they can't score. GG18 is pretty good for Guild compared to some previous versions. Guild has some solid masters that can compete in just about every possible pool and can always kill their way to success in quite a few pools as well.

Generally I like him better in Ressers. I can play him in either and their are definitely some things that are better in Thunders (Emissary) additionally a lot of what I play with him can go either way- Soul Porter, Izamu, Yin, Goryo- so I can make an argument either way. There are also some pools of Strategy/Schemes where if I would use him as a Thunders player. However overall it comes down to one thing for me that tips it in favor of Resurrectionists- Rotten Belles. 2 x Belles in his crew really change how it functions, help you drag in victims early to allow you to more rapidly gain Chi, and add so much utility in multiple strategies and schemes. I also like a Shikome in his crew as well. In tandem with Yin they work really well. In Ressers I typically run- Yan w/Awakening, Follow Their Footsteps, Reliquary; Soul Porter, Izamu w/Spirit Beacon, Yin w/Take Back the Night, Chiaki w/Pull of the Grave, Goryo, and 2 x Rotten Belles. If I don't need the condition removal from Chiaki then I swap her out for a Shikome usually.