scarlett fever

Not to be a cold fish, but whilst this is true, this is one of those things that I try to avoid in a tourney, along with the fact that Shenlongs limited Upgrades are not Rare 1 (in the case of discarding to Yu). Having to explain all my Shenlong condition shuffling shenanigans can be enough without rules arguing points like this to get an edge. If I know my opponent and they're au fait with Shenlong that's different, but otherwise, nup. For me it sits in the company of Obeying Paralysed models, things that work but are a downer to play.

To be honest I already find Lady J an intimidating opponent vs Shenlong and he has nothing to stop condition removal. This doesn't seem significantly worse. You either try to avoid these match-ups or change up your play style when they happen.

That feels like a huge question. Shenlong's greatest advantage is his adaptability, by swapping styles/adding condiitons he has an out for any situation, he's very fluid and fun to play. Argh, so many things he can do. Example of an opening play might be; Crew close to Shenlong but Sniper forward slightly, Shenlong starts with Wandering River (always this to start). After initiative is flipped Peasant places a scheme marker thereby summoning a second peasent. First activation slow peasent focuses for a 0 (free focus from Shenlong) and focus flips 'provides for the temple' giving focus to Shenlong. Next Second peasant focuses for 0 moves and gives focus to Shenlong. Low River Monk activates, takes a 0 focus from Shenlong (gaining focus 2 for taking his first focus action) moves and focuses again. Swordsman activates, takes defensive as a 0 from Shenlong, kills peasant(creating corpse marker) and moves up the board. Emissary activates, takes his 0 removing the focus from the Low River and gaining 3 cards, pushes Swordsman and gives him fast then moves forward. Toshiro Activates, summons an Ashigaru from the corpse, removes the scheme marker as a 0 to give focus to the Sniper (and Ashigaru, though not needed) and drops a scheme marker. Shenlong activates, Mighty Gust pushing Ashigaru, drops a focus to take away his slow (by adding fast) and moves the other scheme marker, pushes Emissary and drops a focus to give him fast and pushes the scheme marker even further, takes a 0 to swap to Low River and heals 2 wounds on the Ashigaru. Ashigaru moves twice and takes his 0 'Brace Yari'. Sniper activates, takes a focused shot, takes focus again for 0 (Shenlong) and takes a second focus shot. You now have a crew primed for a turn 2 blitz with fast on Emissary, Swordsman and a stacked hand. The crew is a bit skew and with a few inefficient actions but shows a couple of opening moves. This is away from cards and books so I can't remember the names of all actions. My first cautions for playing him competitively would be practice a method of putting out and moving around conditions quickly and efficiently and also be ready to talk yourself hoarse explaining your interactions to your opponent. You want to be doing all this quickly.

For a full summoning crew (Mei, Toshiro, Porkchop and/or Emissary. You can use the Emberling as well but it's too card intensive to be effective) I'd suggest at least 4. Even without the full package I've easily summoned 5 in a game.

This is frustrating and has needed a resolution since Headhunter was introduced. I avoid using Misaki etc in Headhunter because of it. If you look at current FAQs and rules it could go either way.

McCabe. I love playing Shenlong but McCabe's tricks have the edge and you don't have to play him as quickly in tournaments. One back-up Master is tough, I can see the sense in Rathnards pick of Yan-Lo but I think I'll go Mei Feng. She can play a solid summoning game with a crew that is hard to get rid of. Having said this it adds a bunch of models to your core; McCabe: Hounds, Jorogumo, Dawn Serpent, Austringers (haven't tried Mounted Guards or Queeg yet) Mei Feng: Koimainu (more than 2), Metal Gamin, Rail Workers But competitively it can't be denied that Lynch is very powerful, so much card control, so much damage and a 0 cost Henchman/Totem as well as access to Depleted. I just don't enjoy playing him as much.

I'd agree with most comments here, except I disagree with Chiaki not being useful, she has a range of versatile and very useful actions. I've being playing Thunders almost exclusively since the begining of M2e and I'm moving towards playing the Faction as a whole rather than auto-picks but there are defintely models that are easier to utilise and find a space in any crew putting them slightly ahead of the rest. First picks (can find a place in any crew): Thunder Brothers, Emissary, Lone Swordsman, Illuminated, Effigy Second picks (can find a place in most crews): Chiaki, Yin, Snipers, Yu, Samurai, Tengu, Wandering River, Izamu, Lust Third picks (specific but still very useful for any Master, very strong for certain scheme/strat/terrain/opposing Faction/deployments) Toshiro, Kang, Tannen If I wanted to go full competitive I wouldn't leave any of the above out of my bag. Probably forgotten something. Of course as stated previously after this it becomes Master dependent. The latest Unfauxcast had a good discussion around so-called 'underpowered' Thunders models, I'd suggest it's a good listen as a counter point to the general sway of discussions here and on Facebook.

I mostly agree with everything above so will attempt to add to rather than re-iterate. For competitive play I'd put McCabe first, then Lynch and Shenlong. I haven't found a match-up that really curbs McCabe's playstyle, whereas Masters like Lady J and Tara can put the screws on Shenlong and Lynch can be vulnerable to strong casters. I've enjoyed playing Shenlong and he has the most flexibility in his crews as well as in game, but I feel like can suffer in competitive play for one arbitrary reason. If you're playing against people who haven't faced him much I find I spend most of my time explaining what I'm doing. To keep within time frames you need to throw down and pick-up conditions very quickly whilst giving a running monologue which can easily confuse an opponent. Minor point but does mean if you see this happening in game you should aim to get all your VP quickly. I haven't played Mei as much as the other Masters but my feeling is she is next if not equal to the above. She's very flexible, Vent Steam is a powerful counter and with the accompanying models listed above she can be a reasonable summoner, the only real one in faction. Shenlong and Toshiro can do something close but it is more card/AP dependent and in early turns you'll be getting one Ashigaru a turn rather than multiple Komainu. I'm looking forward to more games with her, particularly as we have a few strong ranged/casting crews in the local meta. Misaki and Yan Lo are not as flexible as the above Masters. They can still compete in any match up but in my experience have more specific skill sets. However Misaki can operate the opposite to Shenlong competitively. Ultra-violence crews can be really good competitively as they clear the way for your Strats and Schemes as well as shortening game time. Misaki both plays very fast and can have the game sorted turn 2, which means if you happen across a slow/complicated opponent you don't have to rush to get your points locked in early. Brewmaster I really struggle with. I haven't played him that much (about 12 games, as opposed to 60+ for Shenlong/Misaki, 30+ for McCabe) but against strong players and especially aggressive players I just can't get him to work. I've looked through the threads here and tried different set-ups but for he's tough to crack. I feel like he's generally best against elite crews. I'm stubborn so will keep trying but he disappoints in tournaments. I've been thinking recently that Thunders greatest strength may be in counter-builds, something I'd like to explore more. Thunder masters all tend to be flexible generalists compared to other Factions, which means you can build towards any Strats and Schemes and terrain with each Master. That leaves the Faction you're facing as the final crew building option, but i may start another thread about that rather than derail this one.

That's how I've seen it played in the past. Happened in a tourney and I just wanted to keep the game moving, it never occurred to me to read the card differently. Other schemes say 'a model' which seems less open to interpretation.

"At the start of the game, secretly note down three Minion models in this Crew with a combined Soulstone Cost of at least 15. Once per game, at the end of any Turn after the first reveal this Scheme and score 1 VP for each of the noted models within 4" and LoS of an enemy Master, Henchman, or Enforcer." I played against someone who used this against me, they named 3 minion models, but they didn't name their individual models (eg; they had multiple insidious madness etc). I've always distinguished between individual models when I've named them (eg; crouching sniper and standing sniper). How do others play this?

Misaki is my first love and I really enjoy playing her, but I still feel like she can be very swingy and lacks punch, especially vs crews with Armour/Incorporeal. If you don't go cruise missile, just pick around the edges you end up playing catch up, if you do go cruise missile without the ability to out-activate it takes a lot of careful positioning and can be scuttled. I still love playing her but I feel like I've got to play harder with her than with my other Masters.

I've been playing with this also and it's pretty solid, especially in a kill focused Shenlong crew. I've also found it frees up my hand to use You Shall Not See Another Sunrise effectively with the Swordsman. Usually I find using Sunrise aggressively requires either my whole hand or a very specific one, but with 3 extra cards he becomes fearsome. I tend to load up for turn 2 and then switch between the Emissary's 0's in the later turns depending on what's required.

So I'm Thunders through and through and I feel like I agree with much of the analysis but not necessarily with the judgement calls. The aesthetic is a bit garbled, hence I don't play McCabe or Lynch much now, but no more so than many other factions, to my eye only Gremlins and Guild are consistent. I get the feeling you came to Thunders because you suddenly realised you had many Thunder Masters already from other factions, so you probably weren't thinking about how they went together to begin with. I started with Thunders so I've always been thinking about them as a whole as I painted and modeled. Consistency is a draw for me, I loose to good players but very rarely by more than 1-2 VP, I'm not keen on randomness I like control. When I loose I can always see where I went wrong, there will be Black Jokers and Red Jokers but they shouldn't decide my game if I can help it. I think Thunders have more combos than other factions, hence the following point in your analysis about swapping Masters in and out of crews, but their combos don't necessarily have the brute force and swing potential of other factions, they're more subtle and sometimes more complex (thinking Shenlong now). But there are so so many. In my opponents I frequently see certain combos from certain Masters again and again, whereas I feel like we get to mix it up ad infinitum. It's like all the different combinations have a purpose somewhere and you're never going to get to the bottom of it. I can't say I've found Thunders boring.

I play Shen without Yu a lot and it doesn't him being effective. It may be my play style but after a ridiculous amount of games with both Shen and Misaki (they're my 2 main Masters) I wouldn't consider Shen less killy than Misaki. There are only a handful of Strat and Scheme combos that would make me consider Misaki over Shen competitively, she requires me to tailor half my crew to her and can be a bit all or nothing. As already mentioned Shenlong amplifies his crew so if it's a killy crew it's more killy. I've seen Lynch on the table so much that I've used him much less myself, but he'd generally be better than Shen for killy games. I like to use Toshiro, Shadow Emissary and Yu, sometimes Kang, all of which are expensive models that add a different element of support to a Shenlong crew. I'll field 1-2 of them and often a big beater so Yu's not always there. Without Yu I'm more focused with Shen, less cycling through the styles.

I only take Torakage for fun and always with Smoke and Shadows. Whilst I like Agile and Wk6, I don't see this as a valid reason to take them over Brothers and Wandering Monks. Using their 0 actions the others can disengage and then move further than them or utilise an additional AP. Sure it requires a mask or a 6 but I don't recall being caught short by that when I've needed it. Their Shuriken/Leaf Step is cute, but I've never found it effective and I often feel constrained trying to remain in range whilst doing it. I do like Erorior's trick with the Sabre though, that sounds like a great idea, but it's unlikely to be enough to make me choose Torakage over some other Sabre wielding trickster.

I played TT Brewie last year, and used him as my primary Master one tourney, but I have to admit I found him a steep learning curve. The main thing I found was that he was helluva squishy. Misdirection was a must, and even then I often took Running Tab to give me access to Wesley (and Fingers). I feel like he has two approaches, bubble and debuff. His favourite games are a mix of closed crew (eg Turf War, Protect Territory), focused killing (eg Vendetta) and interacts (eg Plant Explosive, Distract, Headhunter). He excels at picking one or two models, isolating and killing/neutralising them. As those above have mentioned go to models are Yin (double the Obey to paralyze nastiness by adding Ama No Zako), Komainu, Performers, Tannen. I played against him one game where the Gremlin player used the Whiskey Golem as scheme runner (Ashes/Ama styles) and it was pretty brutal. I've tried the Fermented Monks a couple of times but I feel like they need too much babysitting in a crew that already relies on synergy.

Okay, cheers

If you Rapid Fire into Engagement (assuming you have the symbol of course) do you flip once for the Target of all 3 shots or do you flip separately for each shot?

The Lone Swordsman is one of my all time favourite models to use, however it took me a few goes to get him to work. The biggest trap is trying to use the 'you shall not see another sunrise' (I love saying that in game) to take down a big enemy outright. To use it in that way you need to basically use your whole hand on the Swordsman, two cards on the reactivate and then enough high cards to make sure you kill it. Considering you've probably set him up the turn before, waited for the right moment, given him fast, dropped Recalled Training and charged, there are just too many ways in the twisted halls of Malifaux that your opponent will throw a spanner in the works and, doh, you've lost him before he's really done anything. There's times when this will work/be worth it but in my experience it's not always what he does best, and we all know that not finishing off an enemy and dying yourself can be a cardinal sin in Faux. For me reactivate is slightly set-up and slightly opportunistic. An enemy enforcer is already hurt, play sunrise first, then charge and finish him off. Tag team with him. It's important to think about whether you want to use sunrise before or after a charge. If you're not certain how the fights going to go you should probably charge, see how you did, then decide to drop it. If it's in the bag drop it before the charge. In a tight spot turn 5 and need to drop schemes, name a model anywhere on the board for sunrise, Swordsman just runs and drops a couple of markers, or finishes off some unrelated model that's hogging VP, then commits seppuku. Obviously his key assets are his triggers and these are awesome, especially the tome, not a heap in Thunders outside the Glowing Sabre that can do that. Yes you need the suit but it doesn't always have to be a high one and if there is something key hold on to a high card until next turn. And of course his 2" push. He's squishy, but anything with Hard to Kill is really frustrating when you play with Shenlong, or worse, Shenlong and Yu.

Sweet, that's how I've been playing it but was suddenly unsure.

I couldn't find an answer to this question in here. If a model is on the edge of a Ht 2 terrain object can it place a marker in base contact over the edge, so that once placed the marker falls to the ground (Ht 0) level? Or would this count as not being placed in base contact and therefore is an illegal move?

Thanks for the replies. I like the idea of including rats, but don't have the Brotherhood box yet so might save that for next time. I feel like that would combo ideally though, allowing the Engine to both reactivate and get in the thick of it to heal back up at the end of the turn. As well as giving me scheme control options in the Catchers and Kings (Red Rat Kings?). Plus the flying Plague rats look a little broken against some crews I was thinking Killjoy or Gluttony would make a good Cheshire Cat. My crew really doesn't require another massive beatstick so of those I'd go Gluttony. Though the way the campaign works it's not so much about winning as racking up scheme points and Gluttony is really a denial model. The other option is just a couple of Guilty, the'd look pretty sweet in the crew and could boost activations and apply a little more scheme support. Though Freikorps is an easy option, I'll paint them white and put hearts on them, I think I'll leave them for now. What are peoples experience with Gluttony in play?

Warning: Rambling Ahead So I moved cities and metas about 6 months ago and have spent most of my recent time giving demos and casual games. And working too much. I'm a long time Thunders Player (started Malifaux playing Yan Lo in 1.5) but feel like I've played them out for the time being and have started looking to Outcasts. Locally we've just started a Shifting Loyalties campaign which is fun and gave me the room to start dabbling in Outcasts in a fun and causal way. I've gone with Alyce (in Wonderland), a Void Wretch(White Rabbit), Abombination and Desolation Engine(Jabbawocky) to start with. I've also started modellng up Levi as my 'Red Queen'. My first impressions with the Desolation Engine and Alyce are, bl**dy hll they put out a lot of damage to what I'm used to in Thunders. And Abomb summoning, coming in at full wounds? No 0 Actions or Ca suits? ! All the passive damage and TN tests, just glorious. The Desolation Engine has definitely been my top player, that thing is brutal, pulsing damage then auto-healing off it's attacks. How often do people use Alyce's reactivate construct and on what usually? But back to what I'm stuck on, where to go next? I could go towards Levi, but not sure I'm keen. Freikorps Librarians/Trappers seem like an obvious next choice but there are 2 other camapign players who already have librarians so maybe not. More inclined towards Misaki (maybe rats next?) or Jack Daw (Guilty?). Quite like adding the asylum thematic. One thing I notice coming from Thunders is the lack of obvious scheme runners in Faction. Void Wretchs are pretty stand-out for 4 points, but it's hard to see why you'd pick Desperate Mercs or Freikorpsmen. Or you go for big and fast flankers, Ama No Zako or Ashes and Dust? Looking over the Masters it appears in many cases dedicated scheme runners are something you pull in with keywords. Though again the rat packs look pretty interesting. And does anyone summon Abombs off their summoned Rats? That seems like it could have it's uses. So any nifty ideas where I should go to next? If I was to go towards Jack Daw what are some suggestions? Equally if I went towards Misaki? Or just some cool model combos to think about? Sorry, s** images, will take better ones when I've finished working on them.

Having played a bit of Brewy lately, he sure is squishy, particularly versus ranged attacks. Out of 7 games have racked up a turn 1 kill from a Teddy, a turn 2 from Lilith as well as death by Ophelia and Sonnia. How to eliminate my main squeeze Shenlong. Take outcasts. Take Hans, Johan and Taelor. Ping off Shenlongs limited upgrade, now he and Yu are puppies for the rest of the game. Remove conditions from his crew. Relic hammer him back to the monastery. This could be pulled off with other Factions, just hire in Hans and take the appropriate condition removers/relic hammers. But more seriously, take models that eliminate scheme markers. Place models in key positions in terrain to block push lanes and divide the board.

Okay kiddies, so I have Shifting Loyaties now, what are some ideas for proxies? Zenit have a Jorogumo, and a dragon that could be good for the Emissary. http://shop.zenitminiatures.es/product.php?id_product=160 http://shop.zenitminiatures.es/product.php?id_product=193 What about Wandering River Monk? Bunraku? Queeg? Any other good oriental dragons? For Jorogumo I do like the Heresy giant spider(converted with a humanoid top half) but it does look too big http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_12_51&products_id=64 Any other pretty giant spider types?