EntrepeNinja

Long Post Warning. I've been noticing something kind of specific lately. When a strat and scheme flip comes, and regardless of my declared faction, I will nine times out of ten reach for a melee master or support master to do the things I need to do in the game. I've got a basic concept of why that is, I think: First the master generalizations (remember... generalizations are purposefully broad) Melee style masters; Likes being engaged, either because they're dangerous there, or they're just hard to take down. (examples- Lady Justice, Victories, Ironsides, McMourning) Support Style Masters; Is a model force multiplier, or is able to affect the battlefield by supporting it's crew, and less direct intervention (examples- Puppet Style (Collodi, Colette, Hoffman), Summoning/Aura Control (Ramos, Dreamer, Kirai, Nicodem) Ranged Style Masters; Attacks from greater than 6"- either through SH, CA, or other effects- Typically high damage, low survival (though not always) (examples- Sonnia, Rasputina, Ohpelia, Perdita, Seamus) Center Control Strats: (Extraction, Turf War, Guard the Stash) With the amount of engagements and the need to have models actually in the middle, having a master that effects from range seems counter productive. A master that can either support the tankey models hired in the center, or a master that IS a close range threat will usually beat out a ranged threat master. Interact Strats: (Squatters Rights, Stake a Claim) A support master will usually be my go to here- for instance Colette, or Hoffman, as they can often create more opportunities to models that are in good positions. There's an argument that a ranged master can stop either back field or midfield interactions through blasting scheme runners, but I find my playstyle likes to concentrate on me getting my thing done, and less on denial. (Which may be my tragic flaw.) Quarter Control Strats: (Reconnoiter, Interference) A support master that can increase numbers, or has some sort of recursion mechanic to keep model count high usually comes immediately to mind, or a master that can make sure the models that are holding that quarter stay alive and/or are more effective in general. Killing Strats: (Collect the Bounty, Head Hunter, Reckoning) This is where my mind clicks with ranged characters, but with head hunter sort of punishing some purely ranged crews, that means a melee killer or support master would want to do at least that one of these three, and any crew can have some decent killing power when hired, meaning even the one that (in my head) should be the ranged masters specialty is having some crowding by the other two styles I like playing... The schemes and terrain, of course, also play into my likes, but like I've implied, I can find myself creating solutions for ranged masters by bringing ranged crews. -BUT- I WANT to like ranged masters. A few specific ones, to be honest. I do like Rasputina and have had some success with here in things like Reckoning, and Collect the Bounty- with her great attacks, and tough, cheap minion models... I love a lot of the stuff Lynch does, but find how I use Huggy and Lynch's activations sort of lack luster... I like the concept of Sonnia, but her close range fragility, and crew dependency make her feel static from a master standpoint when I play her. The jump and shoot masters, like Perdita, Ophelia and VonSchill seem so straight forward and lacking in tricks that I shy away from them or play them in such oddball ways they seem ineffective. (I played a 'Dita list that had her, Abuela, and the Judge focusing on pushing Frank around and murdering 2-3 models a turn... It worked but was a lot of work.) I don't know what I'm after. The answer to this post might really just be, "Well, they're not your wheelhouse, don't play them", but they have so much potential, I just can't seem to get my head around when and how to use the masters, and how to build lists around that type of master. Can someone who loooves the shooty master give me a shooty master manifesto? Which schemes and strats are the ones you turn to them for? How do you tool a crew around them? Am I just asking too much? TL:DR I tend to like melee and support masters, but want to branch into Ranged masters, but am having trouble playing them effectively. HALP.

Double post- look at the other one.

McMourning's Alt Metal is best. I liked a lot of the alternate metals though: Raspy, McMourning, Dita, J, Ramos... I think Viks' plastics are best.

K, scheme runner maybe they're not- but they're good and cheap and tough. Protect territory springs to mind. But that one's only available... oh... um... ~25% of the time. I suppose they're good filler models. The other gamin aren't much faster. You could take molemen, but there's even less synergy with Kaeris there. You could use the Firey Malifaux Raptor trick where you hit 'em with the Wings of Fire ability and let them fly to the other side of the map and drop schemes, but that early it's pretty easy to clear a breakthrough or a power ritual. (Especially when they can't drop another marker without more help). ENinja

See- if it weren't Kaeris, I'd take Silent Ones all day over either of 'em. ENinja

Well, any M&SU can work with her as it stands- Metal Gamin are great- tough potentially fast scheme runners, and if they "protection of metal" themselves, they can even hand out some burning. I think the "Powered By Flame" can make any of the constructs (maybe just M&SU? Maybe just Minion?) give out burning on melee if they're within range? So- the Coryphee can be very good. Spider swarms, or Large Arachnids. Someone's already Said "The Captain" and I know I've had some serious success with him. The Oxfordian Mages from that crew as well, as they can pass out a little bit of burning to prime some abilities. ENinja

QFT. I'm excited about the WP interactions for Brewmaster as well, but it's more than just master interactions. It can also be about enforcer/minion combos. Specific roles for the model in the scenario. Turf War? Drag an enemy into the middle. Interference? Drag a friendly out of engagement to increase your total number. Deliver the message? Grab an enemy and place it into engagement with someone who's close enough. Sometimes looking at the big picture is breaking it down into smaller pictures... #zen

Oh, sorry- I was remembering my last game with them where they hit Moderate damage 6 times in one turn, so I THOUGHT there minimum damage was 4. That being said, Ml6 positive twist to attack AND DAMAGE. ENinja Edit: I took an expiremental McCabe Swarm crew- 3 wastrels, 4 dogs, luna, etc etc... Cassandra and duet (along with some prompts from colette) took turns one shotting everything I had on the table.

Right? I wish Mei had a good 0 to make use of that. Poking through the wave three stuff- I found Lust again. One she comes out, 10 Thunders brewmaster is gonna be bananas. 0 Action that pushes a model (friendly or enemy) towards any other model. Then a 1ap action that places an enemy model into base contact with another enemy model. So- "Brewie! Push into range of that guy! Hey you over there! Place into b2b with that guy also!" ... Looks pretty good. ENinja

Could play that list in gremlins and not need running tab. You could also just proxie the moon shinobi as fermented rivers if you were to swap both out. But I would suggest giving the shinobi a try. the first time your opponent cheats down to put you at a positive (ergo negative) twist is pure magic. I think Fingers with "Problem" is amazing. Others are skeptical- lemme know what you think. ENinja

There is some very interesting stuff for mei coming up in wave three. Pretty stoked.

I'm with Fetid- Almost everyone save misaki is always talked about as, "Better in their infiltration". I spent a good amount of time specifically posting 10t lists that highlighted the infiltration masters working in their "home" faction. It was pretty funny. ENinja

Yeah, your faction write up is missing some gems, man. Brewie is awesome, and out in plastic for reals. He actually exists! Shen Long maybe not so much, but he's a lot of fun, and has a very interesting and flexible playstyle mechanism. Yan Lo has a bad rap- his toolbox is delicate, but can be very strong in the right hands. That being said... Man. To pick a fave out of the set is difficult for me. I currently run Brew, Lynch, Mei, and Lucas.... I think the most fun I've had is probably Lynch. Lucas and Brewie seem most competitive based on strats and schemes. ENinja

I know they're not out in plastic, but you could get a couple gunsmiths. They synergize extremely well with Toni. I also like Silent Ones in all things: the benefit here is- they can shoot into the melee that Toni's started. They can 0 action heal her from 6 inches away. They're a steal at 6 stones. And if supported can be a pain in the rear to take off the table. ENinja

The duet, man. That's a powerhouse model. High min damage, hard to hit, harder to kill, great at dealing damage and fast as all get out. With the duet, cassandra, and Colette, you should be able to mow down a bunch of summoned models, or pressure the summoner as suggested earlier. The only other suggestion is: focus on strat and schemes, and if they don't demand death, gird your loins for a beating, and just take care of business without all the violence. Hike up your fishnets, and finish the job. ENinja

I just typed up a big long post which I accidently scrolled away from... Grrr.... Highlights. Peformers- Inside the bubble, the enemy has to pass a drinking contest and a manipulative check. That's rude. And awesome. On top of lure, poison bombs, positioning and anti schemes, I don't see a reason not to run one, if not two. Fingers- He can add poison like a champ (ml7 for p3 against a single target. Great. Trigger to make WP checks for +2 on all models nearby? Brilliant.) He can scheme like a champ. (1ap to clear a scheme marker at range, and place a friendly one at range, and no ca or tn to make it go off? Ew.) With drinking "Problem", he's even got a sort of lure on a 0 action he didn't have before anyways. And on top of all that, take a swig makes him a backup combat healer. With drinking contest on a trichi model, he can throw 3 2/4/6 heals on a nearby model. Shinobi- Head games on top of high potential movement. Good mid stone threat, and swift scheme runners. Potentially a little pricey. Espeically in thunders, as you need to buy an upgrade for them. Tannen- Cooler is disgusting. Use the obeys and pick your poison abilities to push him to just inside the front edge of drinking contest, and he can shut down models while remaining manipulative. Lure things into both auras, and they're done. "I want to walk away from this clusterf*&^$" "Drinking contest. K. Discard to cheat. Alright, declaring a disengaging strike. Discard to cheat." And if Deliver the Message or Spring the Trap are in the pool, you can obey him to use "What brings you" to add another chatty bubble to stop them. Brewie himself. Look- He's amazing at shutting things down. I played two games with him this weekend. One was a loss 3-5. One was a tie 8-8. The opponent in both cases were two different players- playing gremlin brewmaster. I had the game going really well for the first three turns both times. And then in turn 4 and 5, the opponent won initiative, and I was on the back foot for Drinking contest, and they swung it back 'round. Maybe in a non-mirror it wouldn't have been as swingy, but he REALLY wants to go first. Stones for initiative will be wanted. In gremlins, you can bring a trixiebell to let you cheat it. Thunders don't have that option. Fun master. Looking forward to more games. Gonna try and get back to gremlins as well- probably my go to for turfwar and guard the stash at this point. Maybe even extraction- though if they present a wall of meat, and you're not knocking it down fast enough, that one can get away from you.

Serves me right for not having my cards in front of me. So you need two aces to do it. And you only net one card. But it's still pretty baller. I mean, even if you're just using it to consistently mill cards, and take a defensive action.... Increase your defense at 0 cost, and cultivate a hand for later in the turn activations.

I would suggest, if you have 1 or more ten thunders brothers, an ace of rams can really help out. You can use your zero action to snag an extra card. (Play the ace of rams for his zero. Then discard it after you draw two, discard one.) Then you can discard it to make them defensive (and increase their defense by +1). Also, a ace of crows for a stitched togethers "tails you lose" might be worth a hold, if you don't catch the high crow for heads I win. And if you're going for the coup de grace on "you wanna see a trick", you're in for a headache when you get to an end of turn with 3. Go for 6 damage? Save and try for 8? (don't do it. Just take the 6 damage and start again next turn... lol) ENinja

But the benefit the Acolyte brings is the slow and the discard, not just the damage. I like cheating for the fast and getting burning for purifying, though. That's pretty slick. I've said it somewhere before, but it may pertain here as well. Sonnia wants a crew that can make her target be on fire so she can do nasty things to it. Kaeris want to make her target be on fire so her crew can do nasty things to it. It's super broad. It's not even totally true. But gunsmiths are the reason it's at all true. Dropping a zero action to get :+fate to all duels? That means horror duels. SH duels. Defense duels. Vs a target that's on fire. Spread that around, and he becomes double defensive, and extremely accurate (Damage flips aren't duels... so...... no go there. But still, flip three cards take the best sh6? Can get around someone being in cover and in the creepy fog, and still be at a straight flip? And their triggers make them extremely versatile as well- being able to ignore hard to wound, hard to kill, and armor, or ignore soulstone preventions can make these guys a Master/Henchman killer. Pretty choice for a last ditch assassinate or murder protege. And with Hard to Kill and Kaeris with Purifying fire, they could surprise some folk with their survivability. Just don't put burning on them hoping they'll heal, then let Kaeris die. That's a double whammy. O,O; ENinja

To side with her for a hot second- I don't think it is that comperable. She has a higher ML stat that anyone but, say, Viks? Misaki? Lilith? Her damage is on par with them, and while she doesn't have Whirlwind/Assassniate, she can have onslaught. Her single target Wounds per Round are nearly unparalleled. She doesn't have movement tricks. Her core crew has a ton! Grab the judge. Pull models into her. Grab a deathmarshall. Drag them BACK to her. Spend a turn or two setting up ideal circumstances. Maybe she places scheme markers for Protect territory turn one. Maybe she doesn't have Hard to Wound, Hard to Kill, Armor, whatever on her card. But you know what IS on her card? a 0 action heal. That's a potential 1/2/4 more wounds on top of her staggering 14 wounds. Spend four stones and hire a brutal effigy. You got onslaught triggers for days? That's potentially another 6 wounds there. Worried about a seamus bullet? Grab a Badge of Office, and have some red joker protection. She's not a Vik, she's not gonna go in and wipe out a whole crew in one turn on her own. Try it and she'll go down. She's not Lilith- you can't tangle something from behind the safety of some mountain. But she's got a crew that's able to bring her tasty treats none the less. She's got riposte! If you bring a francisco and do some discards for defensive, that's a real threat! Blindfighter so she can charge through trees, inspiring sword play to boost the effectiveness of nearby minions... She's got all kinds of unique flavor. In fact. I want to put her on the table more now than ever. As that panzer chap says, "Can you deal with this big sword?" ENinja Edit: Open Spoiler

I don't want to be that guy, but I will. Talking strats and stuff is all well and good- as is brainstorming ways to shore up her weaknesses inside of the system, IE Sidir gives her to melee. Frank gives her +2 DF. A latigo can give her to def, etc... But we need to, as a community, get out of the mindset that we're still beta testing these models. Lady J was wave one, and saw heavy testing, and while that testing was in a bit of a vacuum (none of the wave two, or now wave three stuff was there...) that doesn't mean that we need to go on a rash of buffing or cuddling things from prior betas. K. I've said my peace- if you care to continue wishlisting, feel free. I just think it's important to know that short of glaring deficiencies, I don't think Justice will be getting a shooting attack, or the ability to hire Metal gamin, or wings so she can charge over a mountain, or... ENinja (Resident Wet Blanket)

See, I'm the opposite- I love bullying in melee. Get up in their grill, and make it hard for them to do their job. Of course that means, mismanaging placement means I can get shot to s&^%. I'm trying to branch out into medium and long ranged characters. I played Lynch the other day, and what did I do? Walked him right into engagement with McMournign. And he died. I was not surprised. It's just a different mindset. So Doug, he's a front line. Hoffman? Puppet support. Those are what I do well. But the ones who directly interact, but from a distance? That's my shortfall. Now that the thread has gone completely off the rail. O,O; ENinja

Heh heh heh... I didn't mean to call you out. Yeah- Just like with Arcanists... If I were to choose three today they'd probably be: Hoffman, McMourning, Lucas McCabe Mostly for the same reasons I chose Colette and Ramos. Hoffman: Baller at hold position or kill strats: Turf War, Guard the Stash, Headhunter, Collect the Bounty etc McMourning: Good at interact and scheme marker schemes and strats (this would leave the strat to my hired crew, often) notably, Stake a Claim, Plant explosives, spring the trap, Squatters rights, etc. If there's a lot of scheme markers in the pool, Doug's my guy. McCabe: He's the wildcard. If deliver the message and frame for murder are in the pool? Dear lord. That being said, he does a lot of things very well. So there's some overlap with the former two. I don't have a lot of ranged, but I find that that is because I don't played ranged super well. Any time the crew is asked to be somewhere doing something? You're probably going to be seeing people up close and personal. I'm still waiting to unlock Perdita in my personal playstyle. I think there's potential there, but for the most part "Bang bang bang bang bang!" isn't something that cries out to me for attention. Lady Justice? She's my Mei Feng. So much fun to play, and a lot of times sub par on a broad spectrum, but CAN be amazing when the stars align. ENinja

Or machine puppet with the take new position? Machine Puppet, and you're dead and drop a head. Machine Puppet, take new position and pick up a head. @TheRedMoonHead Sounds like fun- but it's a lot of resources to devote for a turn one explosion. Perhaps if we're relating J to the same sort of job as the viks it's more take T1 to setup a turn two massacre, then pull the trigger early turn two. Or start with buffs, then Bury her so they don't drop off at end of turn? Hmmm... ENinja

Problem is, you won't know if it's Nico or Ramos. Would you take Lady J against all the ressurs? Or all Arcanists? I might take J against Ressurs- the ability to keep corpse counters from even hitting the table is fantastic, and shuts down Nico, Seamus, Sebastian and Toshiro's summons. On top of the other synergies against undead models. I like the idea of a melee beatstick master in things like Reckoning and Collect the Bounty, though head hunter is probably more of a Hoffman game. Are the roles played by Lady J and Doug as melee masters a little more specific? Sure. But if you can drop a crew that's good at doing the scheme and strats, then maybe a melee master like J is more about "Okay, these guys will get the job done. Lady J is only here to try and take out your threats, and break your machine. ENinja