Therril_83

another thing noone seems to mention when it comes to the riders, is that their pseudo-armor only works when using Df. So hit them with anything that targets Wp and they're only protected by their Stubborn-ability, which can be more or less cancelled by a Focus-action (consider that most abilities that targets Wp doesn't care about cover, so it evens out in that regard) I'm not saying they're easy to take down, but they're all quite expensive so they shouldn't be. They are by no means as hard as some people make them out to be.

McTavish doesn't seem to be able to take the 'Hexed Among You'-upgrade when hired into Neverborn. Tried it both with Zoraida's Tarot Reading which makes him a "model" rather than a "mercenary" but the problem is regardless of that, as long as the crew is Neverborn it seems.

You indeed can leap out of engagement. Also take a look at the Silent and Perfect Camouflage abilities that the Silurid have. They add alot to their survivability, which might otherwise look a bit on the weak side for a 7ss model. Thirdly, they also have an infinite hit-you-again-Trigger, which is quite uncommon.

Do you _really_ need Hexed amongst you if you play Lilith though? I mean, take a silurid (because why wouldn't you anyway?) and place that in a good position up to 17" up the board, and use that to tangle shadows with. Sure, you can't do it on your very first activation, but it does solve the upgrade-situation you mentioned.

I'm only seeing a positive twist on damage from the old psyco, unless I'm missing an upgrade or something.. The Spotter ability is what I think we all can agree on, Nino-fans and others alike. That is an incredibly powerful ability if you are playing interact-heavy strategys and schemes, and are running with at least a handful of family models.

I'm sorry, I don't quite follow. How does Papa Loco give Nino +3dmg?

True, silurids are awesome. But that's 1/3rd of my regular factions only, and so far in 2e the one I have been using the least.

in most cases I agree with the OP. I didn't before think 2 austringers were such a great investment, but I've learned to really hate them when facing the OPs crew quite a few times. I've only been using one of them myself, but I really do think 2 austringers is more than twice as good as one. The thing is, you can't get to them, since they're deploying completely behind all kinds of terrain and so far away, that I haven't been able to make up any trick that lets me take them out quickly and reliably. They just keep raining a very hard to avoid 6+dmg per turn from 18" away. A few of you also posted that one reason you prefer Santiago over a Gunslinger is that he can shoot into melee. Well, austringers fullfill that role too, they don't have the projectile symbol unless they focus. They even do it better, since Santiago only ignores the friendly family models when randomizing, he still has to randomize if there are several enemies, or if any of your models that isn't family gets engaged. I also think Ninos only worthwhile point is the Spotter ability. Why the heck does a 7ss enforcer model in the sniper-department of one of the most elite crews in the game have Sh5? He does not float my boat.. It annoys me slightly that I find the gremlin "comedy" version of him to be vastly superior. And I'm also curious as to what Family synergies you guys like the most. While playing Guild a bit I'm not playing family myself and I'm not really seeing that much of it that I'm impressed by, apart from Perditas push.

Just to point out, if you had a minion within 4" of an enemy Hanged model, you could repeatedly target that minion. I guess it won't happen often, but it's a thing to keep in the back of your mind and play a potentially nasty trick on an unsuspecting resser player

One thing I noticed when checking the site out recently was how easy it was to click the 1.5-articles by mistake. When you open an article and read it and scroll down. When you want to go back to the faction start page, you scroll up and click on the sidebar again. But since the 1.5 links come up first, you may click those without realizing it. I did it and opened up a page and though "whoa, this is doesn't make sense" and noticed pretty fast that I was on the wrong version. A new player might not notice so fast.. I would suggest that the 1.5-part of the sidebar is collapsed or something like that, so that you cannot easily press it by mistake.

I wasn't a big fan of him on paper, but since I own him I thought I'd give him a testdrive to see what he was capable of, and I was positively surprised. And you're right, you don't take him to be a scheme runner, but it's an added perk to a decent damage dealer.

10T Lucas McCabe doesn't seem to be able to hire Gardsmen..

The last couple of games I've played with Guild I've used the Pale Rider as one of my hitters, and I've come to respect his scheme dropping qualities aswell. From turn 2 onward, he's pushing 4" and dropping a marker each turn for a (0)-action, and especially for schemes like Plant Evidence and Breakthrough, he can make a big impact.

I've used him with Teddy a few times, but I honestly think their synergy is rather situational. I mean, sure, I get a 6" push with Teddy, but at the expense of an entire activation of a 7ss enforcer.. that's more than 50% the cost of Teddy. So unless it's a really good opportunity, like giving me a chance to flurry a master thanks to the push, I don't use it.

The model that consistently deals the most damage in my neverborn experience is actually Baby Kade. His Ml:7 and potential damagetrack of 5/6/8 is incredible, especially since he's also Df:7 and just 7 Soulstones. If you want the Sweetbreads trigger to be more reliable, throw on the Depression upgrade for 1ss and he can discard a low crow. I think he's actually the only model that's killed Perdita for me in M2e.

Interesting topic. I too have a hard time finding a big hitter that I really like in Guild this far.. Both Francisco and Judge are models I think look very interesting. Neither are a pure beater, but both have some utility combined with a decent hitting power. I'm very much hoping they will be released separately, because I don't want to buy their boxes to get them. I've got Samael, and he's not been performing badly for me, but also unless I manage to push something into position to unleash a rapid fire, he feels too expensive. He really does nothing else than damage, but he does it well when he gets a chance. Peacekeeper I haven't tried yet, and there is a reason. I loved it in 1.5, it hit reliably with its paired claws, it had arachnid to ignore terrain and it was really fast with relentless, often walking up to something and flurried it to death. But in this edition, it's cumbersome (doesn't ignore terrain), and will never get to use his flurry since he has no extra movement, and even if it does get to attack, it's not any more reliable than anyone else. I'm really really not seeing the 11ss investment in this guy... Nino used to be a devastating powerhouse of destruction (atleast when my buddy played him with Perdita, obeyed the crap out of him with a hand full of masks every turn thanks to Heros Gamble). Now he's been demoted to a denial-piece when playing with Family models. I really don't see a reason to pay 7ss for him without other family models in the crew. The Executioner looks like he would be good in a game where you're playing defensively, letting your opponent come to you. If you're trying to be agressive, he seems terribly slow. I can also see him working in matchups where your opponent is throwing out scheme markers left and right, and also against melee focused crews. So I think he's a good model but he doesn't fit me. Lone Marshall to me looks interesting. He doesn't hit as hard as some other beatsticks, but he's not weak either. And his movement is quite ok. He's a bit of a mixed bag of damage and movement. I'm not sure he has enough of either to fit me, but I will give him a try when I get the chance. (especially looking forward to the theme of McCabe, Lone Marshal and Pale Rider). Also the mercs that you guys mentioned. I think Guild has a somewhat unique position in Malifaux that our minions (Wichlings and Marshalls mainly) pack quite a punch for their cost. I'm not really convinced that my "big hitter" needs to really hit that hard.. or that I need one at all.. But it's always fun with those big numbers and impressive models!

Hint: read the story that is just before the guild characters in the book. It gives a little insight to who the tyrants are..

Only times I personally saw more than 2 models at a time in 1.5 was either me with Sonnia companioning two dogs, positioning the dogs for blasting and then killed them, or when my friend found a good opportunity to go with Perdita, Nephilim and Nino in such an order that he both got to use the good cards he had, then redraw more and keep shooting. My Sonnia+dogs chain was decent, but never really gamewinning. It was a 5ss-one-trick-pony. But Pertida+Neph+Nino in a good position usually killed 2-3 models with 5-8 shots (4+triggers), and could be repeated several times in a game usually. The games where I could avoid it meant hiding and that means he still got a lot of board control out of it. That being said, I still didn't consider it OP, but I do think it's a good change that increases the flow of the game.

That is correct. The forest only dissapears when the spell is cast again, which cannot be done if Lilith dies. Also cannot be done if she manifests..

Generally, I tend to put value in totems based on two things: does my master need a psedu-Casting Expert? and does the totem have any other ability besides Magical Extension? Most masters could use the extra cast, but then the sub-question to this arrises: what's the Ca of the totem? is it at all possible to cast the spells needed, and if so, do they require so high cards it's unprobable or too "expensive"? In guild, I find this is the hardest part to justify. Perdita sure loves the extra obey, and her totem even has the suit that she herself lacks. That's just a supersweet deal. For Justice, I absolutely love the ability to give melee expert to my minions, since I find guild minions lacking in extra AP, and two of the available totems have the suit. For Sonnia, neither she nor any of the totems have the suit she needs, and she needs every available tome herself. I only take totems with her if I also hire Hamelin, so I can take other faction totems. Lucius I could see taking the Proxy if I think an extra Issue Order would be more useful than the positive twists to ranged, but that's highly situational and depending on the matchup and strategy. Not played or theorized much of Hoffman or McCabe to really comment on them. For the second part, the utility, that's more tricky to put value in I think, but I generally think the guild totems have decent things to offer. Proxy is obvious: extra Wp is great against opponents that target your Wp alot, but if those Wp duels come in the form of Morale Duels, I'd avoid him since then he can kill your own troops. So don't do it against Pandora! Drill Sergeant is very good if your crew contains guardsmen, or if you think you are facing alot of slow/paralyzed effects. I think the buffing of a melee beatstick is not enough to justify him on his own, since he's pricy for a totem, but it's a nice bonus. The Scales of Justice can cycle one card from your hand, which I think is a very good ability. And his Tip the Scales-spell would be quite good if it didn't require such a high card to cast. It can be nice in certain situations, but is not good enough to warrant taking him imo. Purifying Flame... I have nothing good to say about this totem.. moving on.. And I don't play Hoffman so I can't really comment on what the attendant brings. So, that's the two things I tend to look at, and if I can find a totem that satisfies either one of them very very well, or both to a decent degree, I'll take it. Playing Sonnia I don't take guild totems since neither of them has the suit she needs. I would consider the proxy if I faced a crew with lots of Wp-resist spells (again, except Pandora). If I take minion Hamelin, I tend to hire either a Primordial Magic or Essence of Power, since they both have her suit and they give awesome bonuses. Lady Justice, I always take a totem with her, melee expert is just so good on Stalkers for example. Proxy enables it at higher Ca, but I tend to favour the card cycling of the Scales. It's only one card, but that can often tip the scales (pun intended) in the right direction. edit: perhaps I should add that I don't happen to own the Brutal Effigy, so I haven't really considered using it that much. I think I'd nearly always take it with Sonnia, but not so sure with Justice.. I love me that Melee Expert..

Just wanted to point out that this risk is pretty low. There aren't that many morale duels in this game after all, most of them are terrifying of 12. An austringer has a Wp of 7, so 9 with the proxy. He takes the Terrifying->12 on a 3+. A guildguard has 5, so he needs a 5 with the proxy. Those are good odds imo. I wouldn't take the proxy against Pandora though, as her trigger makes it count as you lost a morale duel. But any other time you think you will face many Wp duels but not so many morale duels, I'd atleast consider him an option. edit: also there is the trick when playing an obey-crew, to obey an opponent big-hitter to kill your proxy and then make it fail the duel and be killed itself. But that's not really a discussion for Lucius since he can't hire any obey-models when leading.

I strongly disagree. The action the master is taking is obey/puppet/etc, which does not deal damage. The model targeted by that obey/whatever is then taking an action of it's own, controlled by the same player and interrupting the master's activation. The master has nothing to do with that action any longer. In some cases (machine puppet) the targeted model is also affected by a modifier to it's stats, but that's still just an effect on the model, it's not the master taking the action.

A trapper killing two models in 2 activations seems a little above avarage, even given those two targets. Still, it does happen, and it's hard to completely save yourself from, given the long range and hunter ability. I think the best way to minimize effects of shooting is either hiding completely out of sight, behind buildings or forests, if you want to be defensive. Or going offensively and get those models into combat. Playing Lynch as Neverborn as you seem to do considering the models you spoke of, I'd highly reckomend Tuco. He's very survivable, quick and decent at both shooting and melee. With his nimbe and 3" push, combined with 2 AP to either fire two shots or a focused one (depending on cards in hand, cover etc) he can either move up from far away, or jumping out from and back into cover. There's also the cheap models like Terror Tots that excell at just running forward. 15-20" of movement isn't unlikely with them, so sprint one into close combat with the trapper and he can't shoot. Stiched Togethers fog is also great for covering against ranged attacks, since it's an effect and not terrain, hunter doesn't see further than 3" through it. Those are some of my favouite options atleast. There's also Lure and Come Hither to bring the Trapper closer to you and help getting him into combat, but he's got a fairly high Wp with Stubborn so it's a bit unreliable.

My interpretation of this is that it has to be an action made by a non-master model, and it has to be a melee-type action. So I would say that in the case of Magical Extension, it's not the master that makes the action, even though the spell happens to belong to her/him, therefore I would consider it an accomplished scheme. Same with Machine Puppet and Obey and similar abilities. You are making another model take an action, it's not the master performing the actual strike/spell, it's a minion. So I would call that fair game aswell.