Uncle

Precisely my point. It's manageable and it's not won anything major (that we know of), but it's not good for the game.

Man, this is going to be a fun little thread... I wasn't a fan of Marcus through Book 1 and 2 and, looking at the Avatar model, I'm glad I never was interested in playing him. Wyrd is somewhat hit-or-miss on sculpts with me and this one missed by a mile.

Nice strawman, but no. Of course, you're also the guy defending the new Candy model. Just teasing, a little. Let's look at the Alp bomb. Is it overpowered? You betcha. Is it beatable? Obviously, but it requires very, very play to do so. Is its existence good for the game? Not one bit: all it can do is discourage players who haven't developed the skill to defeat it easily (and I'd argue that it's very rarely an easy game against a skilled player). To go outside the realm of Malifaux, it's rather like what Crane dueling was around the end of Lotus Edition. You had a deck that could win around turn 4 and did very little other than draw cards, gain honor, and lock down opponents. This deck was about as interactive as Collette trying for Escape and Survive, seriously. The opponent was just a resource to be used for more cards and honor. So, you'd assume this deck would be a powerhouse and stomp all over everyone, yes? (In all fairness: Crane did win GenCon that arc, but with a very different deck.) It actually wasn't the most competitive deck out there, being wrecked by both Unicorn and Ratling, and with other factions having their own answers. But man, if you didn't have those cards, or if you were just starting out, it was really depressing facing a Crane dueller. The Alp bomb is kind of like that. It's counterable, but it's not good for the environment.

The anecdotes are just that, but to be honest, it may be that there are counters for Hamelin and the Alp bomb (personally, I don't think LCB is that bad aside from that one trick), but they're not readily apparent to most semi-casual players. The problem there, of course, is that if a starting player perceives an imbalance, he is unlikely to become a veteran player. The reality of the situation matters little if the counter is so "high-level" that a beginning player isn't going to catch on.

You're forgetting one critical thing here: dead models cannot make counter strikes. And if your opponent can't get to grips with you, I suggest you find a better class of opponent, especially for something like Escape and Survive. Taking out your opponent before he or she takes you out will work far more often than trying to play the disengagement game will.

Deneghra can do the same thing, more or less, and win without even really giving her opponent a turn in some scenarios. Doesn't mean it happens all the time or is even really all that viable of an argument. It's possible, but unlikely. Remember, in every situation, dead models cannot mess you up. Killing your opponent is a valid strategy in every scenario you can name, and killing them before they can accomplish their goals just works even better. You can win without killing a model. You can even win having all of your models killed off. But against a capable opponent, neither of those is very likely.

I would only consider Warmahordes as skirmish when compared for 40k. Calling WM and Malifaux the same "type" of game is a bit disingenuous, really: we're talking a game where you'll be running multiple units of ten men vs. a game where your force will consist of, typically, under ten men. Malifaux is "skirmish" like Necromunda or Mordheim is "skirmish." Warmachine is a level about that, but under 40k in terms of models on the table. Again, I think that Malifaux is "almost" balanced based on Master. I think there's just a few things that need to be fixed to make that a reality, and we'll see what book 3 brings.

There's one more thing the people toeing the "Faction Balanced = Balanced!" line seem to be forgetting: When we start looking at Malifaux, we're not looking at a "faction." We're looking at models we like the look of. I didn't start playing until the Showgirls were released because there wasn't a crew out there that really hooked me. I was considering the game, but was debating between Lady Justice, Perdita, and Leveticus, with the possibility of the Gremlins. As far as the rest of the Arcanists, well, I'm not nearly as drawn to them as I am Collette's crew. Ramos looks kind of neat, Rasputina is Ice Queen Cheesecake, and Marcus is all kinds of a hot mess (even moreso now with the Avatar). While Ramos would be a "thematic" second Master, Rasputina sets the Showgirls off better. And let's not even get into the background here. The game is about Faction vs. Faction, sure. But outside of the Guild, since when have the Factions been that cooperative, really? The Arcanists are basically just a loose collection of random magic-using types. The Neverborn include models that don't even acknowledge Malifaux as real. The Ressers, well, Nicodem and Kirai are kind of working together. No real unity, though. And then we get to the Outcasts. What organization do they have to send Som'er's gremlins out in some missions and then send the Freikorps for the next encounter? Just how often do the Vickies and Ophelia get together for strategic meetings? Does Leveticus hang out with Hamelin and get a burger or something? The factions are really just thematic in the majority of the cases. If you are playing Marcus and Rasputina (the "wild" Arcanists), you have a very different group than Collette and Ramos (the "civilized" ones).

There are definitely some bad choices in the GW games, but, for the most part, it's possible to be competitive with quite a large number of books. And aren't Space Wolves and Guard the two internet best lists right now? Pretty sure they're kind of on the older side. Malifaux is actually fairly close to balanced, although that doesn't mean that each master has an equal chance of beating every other one. Rather, they all are at about equal power-level across the board, with a few stinkers and a few that might need some holding back.

The primary reason for buying the books other than the Rules Manual would be for fluff, which is worth a read. It also gives you an overview of what to expect in regards to the various models available. Keep in mind, though, that there have been a few changes made from what's in the book and what's on the cards, and that cards trump books. Which reminds me: have later printings fixed these inconsistencies and typos?

I think a lot of games companies are understandably hesitant about including Middle East-inspired forces in their games at the moment. It could be really neat, but there's the possibility of offending quite a few people. Likewise with the Native Americans--which tribe would they be based off? Would they be "civilized" or "savage?" And so on. Really, though, I am surprised that Malifaux seems to be so, well, white bread. You'd imagine that a resource that valuable would have envoys from just about every country, empire, and culture showing up in arms.

To the OP: Yes, taking a week (or longer) to get a reply is unacceptable and you have every right to be upset. However, you need to understand that this forum is going to be full of Malifaux fans and they are going to jump to Wyrd's defense regardless of the situation. Having a combative tone is just going to make things worse. To the responders: Yes, GenCon is important, but that doesn't mean that you stop responding to customer concerns because of it. Wyrd's a pretty darned neat company, but they're going to have the odd screwup (see: Marcus' Avatar ).

Being more specific, Ophelia and her Kin provide a lot of hitting power to a crew that's a little unpredictable. I would take Ophelia and Rami in a hurry in a Som'er Teeth crew, and then start looking at Bayou Gremlins, Mosquitos, and piglets (perhaps) to fill Soulstones. I'm not a fan of the other Lacroix as much, although Pere can be nasty (but he's also the biggest target you'll find in a Gremlin crew). However, a gunline supported by Ophelia and Rami can really do some damage, and you have Som'er for making more Gremlins and pigs, etc. Note that the Mosquitoes also give you an option when dealing with Hamelin, as you can Pull My Finger all you want, unless I'm horribly mistaken. Warpigs work too, but they're just not particularly effective in general. In conclusion, oh god yes, put Ophelia in your Som'er Teeth crew.

We most likely are. Like I have mentioned, I find Malifaux to be pretty fairly balanced on a Master level, with a few outliers at both ends. Things like Snow Storm are amazing--it takes a crew that could not compete in several Strategies and gives it a thematic way to work. Plus, the model's pretty darned nifty, too. On the other hand, you have things like the Alp bomb which probably needs to be toned down somewhat. To be fair, I'm slightly confused how that got past platters anyways. But it's not like there's really a lot of work needed to make all the Masters (and Henchmen even) viable in single-crew formats. Maybe Book 3 will bring the answers. Who knows?

That's pretty much me. I don't want to have to pick up a crew I don't care for in order to be "competitive," but luckily Colette's good enough, right now, to be able to do just about anything. Exactly. And there's nothing wrong with that. If I want to solely buy "the best" and use that, that's a valid option for purchasing, and, in fact, pretty much what I do in most games, within my limitations. Should I want to change the list, I can buy additional models, but it keeps my investment minimal compared to the enjoyment I get out of a game. There are very few people I know who own several times more models for a given "force" than they regularly play. Having an extra unit or two, particularly once rules change and certain units become more useful, is typical. Owning 2-3 times the number of models you will likely use? Not so much. He's not auto-lose bad, but he's definitely amongst the worst Masters (I would argue the worst, as would many others). As such, a little boost would be in order.

I've yet to see a game, outside of Malifaux, that bases tournaments around owning far more models than you plan on using at a given time. Let's look at Warmachine (yes, I've gotten more into the competitive scene there since this was last brought up). There are regularly 2-4 list tournaments, but there's an awful lot of overlap. I can bring 4 50-point lists that are almost completely identical, aside from the 'Caster, and yet will have quite a bit of tactical diversity (although, to be fair, I'd much rather have one of those 'Casters be Karchev). In Malifaux, if I want to play Gremlins, I have to accept that Hamelin will be a difficult matchup. If I want to play Marcus, I have to accept that he's just plain bad. Let's be honest: the game is almost balanced around the Masters. There are a few bad matchups, but that's bound to happen anyways. The real standouts are Marcus and the Gremlins on the weak end and perhaps a few Masters on the strong end, but that could be debated for ages. It wouldn't take much to shore things up from here.

The other option is for the game to be balanced at the Master level and retain the distinction between crews. Truth be told, they're already pretty darned close to it, and it would just take dealing with a few outliers, like Marcus and Gremlins vs. Hamelin, to make it viable. But, of course, that doesn't sell as many models, does it? Yes, that's cynical of me, I know. But, as I've mentioned in another thread, I dislike the concept of having to buy 20 models to use 7 of them at a time. I don't even know what to say to this. You've taken the concept and ran so far with it that I don't think we're on the same continent. It is completely possible to have balanced Masters and still have a varied and tactical game. It just doesn't sell as many models, since someone can buy one crew and be done. Strange thing is, I haven't found that in any of the stores I've played Malifaux at. Instead, I've found people who gravitate to a single Master and don't really care for the rest in their Faction. I like Colette. I do not particularly care for Rasputina or Ramos and I find Marcus to be laughable. I think the Dreamer is nifty and that Som'er Teeth would be fun to play. My brother likes Seamus and strongly dislikes the other Rezzers. He also thinks Ophelia is fun to play. One of my most common opponents plays the Dreamer exclusively and isn't interested in any of the other Neverborn Masters. In fact, there's only one person I know of who collects a faction and that's the Guild guy, which I can understand--the Guild is very visually meshed, whereas the other factions are not. Perhaps the situation in Houston is strange--we're very much in the "casual and growing" stage here--but I just don't see a lot of people gravitating to a faction as opposed to a crew.

Yes, it's been the idea the whole time, and it's not one that makes for a particularly healthy "skirmish" game. Apologists will point out that Warmachine and Warhammer and similar games cost somewhat more to play, forgetting that you use substantially more than 10 models during the course of one of those games. It's even more of a shame when people are only attracted to specific crews within a faction. If you like Gremlins, for example, but don't care for Leveticus or the Victorias, well, too bad. Buy more models so you can be "competitive!" It's not a wrong way to play, but it's not exactly balanced. On the one hand, you'll have the Dreamer or someone who really knows how to use Colette, and on the other, there's Marcus.

I had originally read that as 'Avatar of Goatse.' Even worse.

That's only partially true. Yes, you can swap out Crews based on Strategy, but many of the Rising Powers Masters are just plain better, overall. Collette struggles, somewhat, in a Slaughter but is able to succeed fairly easily in just about any situation. LCB is just plain nasty in any setting, and the Alp bomb is still very, very difficult to deal with. The Rat Catcher is simply broken, although he does fail at Slaughter. Looking back at Book 1, Perdita and Lilith are simple and effective, whereas their companion Masters are far more difficult to play effectively. And so on. From an Arcanist standpoint, Collette is our standout Master. With her admittedly limited crew, she has answers for just about anything in the game (the Hanged aside--hate those things). Rasputina is less effective due to her lack of mobility, although we'll see how Snow Storm helps here. Ramos is likewise slow and relies on his constructs to get the job done, and Marcus just does not work well at the moment.

Seeing as how I play Colette, and only Colette, I will hold on to that sucker for as long as I can possibly manage. The only time it gets discarded is on a critical Decapitation (Colette, Cassie, or the Duet) or when I really, really need another Soulstone (I go through them like candy). Colette tends to need 2-3 healing flips a game to stay around, the way I play her, and the possibility of getting a Black Joker on one of those makes me want to hold onto that card with the grip of death. Plus, with all the positive flips I have going on, I go through my fate deck more often than I care to admit.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16719 There's the thread I made about them in November of last year. Like you, I was underwhelmed at the time. Nowadays... Well, I still wouldn't take two Performers, but they're worth the points.

I used to feel the same way (and sometimes I still do). However, here's what all you can do with the Performer and Mannequin... The Mannequin's Companion allows you to chain-activate pretty much your entire force if they're in range, letting you alpha strike. Aside from that, it's basically mobile terrain for blocking charges and the like. The Performer gives out Slow, which is very nice, and with some intelligent positioning can Paralyze your opponent. Aside from that, she (and the Mannequin!) exist as a point where Colette can warp in and start Magician's Dueling things to death. To be honest, if you're finding the Performer useless, it's likely that you're doing a little too well with Cassie and the Duet.