Math Mathonwy

Very nicely done! The extremely vibrant colours give them an interesting air that certainly differentiates them from most Resser crews. It's always fun to see something different and these are technically well-made also. The only thing that slightly bothers me is the brown on the bases, as now the difference between the green grass and the brown dirt is rather staggering and mildly distracting taking a bit of focus away from the awesome minis. Maybe doing the dirt a bit darker or more muted? But yeah, keep up the awesome work!

I like all of them and don't think that they are more unbalanced than the current state of affairs. They force you to take sub-optimal crews but reward you for doing so. And yes, some of the rewards are indeed quite handsome, but they won't make Master as good as optimally built Dreamer or Kirai, so the balance might shift a bit but wouldn't got into extremes that are already part of the game. Good job!

I dunno whether this can be seen as a "dirty trick" per se, but Austringers have a very consistent damage output and a very large area that they can affect making them very nice for surgically dropping enemy models into one wound thus allowing Sonnia to change them into Witchling Stalkers.

Following your idea is indeed impossible, because before you could get enough "valid data" there would be a new book released that would invalidate that data. Incidentally, no tier list in the history of ever has been built like that (some fighting games maybe excluded), so your understanding of what a tier list is isn't shared by the rest of the world, basically. Now, you can get into a semantic argument about what "objective" means, but I dealt with that point in my previous reply to you. ---------- Post added at 10:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 AM ---------- That latter scenario wouldn't happen any more than it already happens, since you should both choose your master (by hiding their card in your hand) and reveal at the same time. Of course choosing Kirai is most of the time the optimal choice for Ressers (what with her being in the first tier), so...

I recognized it as a Modron immediately. Super cool work! And the painting here is through the roof. Very, very nice stuff. I like how you've managed to make Lady Justice look so serene and simple even though the mini is bursting with details. The blue blindfold looks great!

You have a very different idea of tiering than what is usually meant with the term. It doesn't mean that a lower tier choice always loses to a higher tier choice. It just means that, all other stuff being equal, the higher tier choice has an advantage - in other words, things won't end up with a 50-50 spread of wins over a large number of games. If the choices are on the same tier, an approximately 50-50 spread is to be expected. If, OTOH, "all other things" are not equal, then these other things can end up making the results whatever depending on their power. Skill is most obvious, but terrain, strategy and so on can also play a big part. In a single tournament, these "other things" are never equal.

I have been only on the giving end of the spectrum re:Bete.

It's powerful but not broken per se. There are multiple counters available, Bete is rather expensive, and she has some severe limitations. It's nasty but there's a lot of nasty things in Malifaux. The Bury mechanic OTOH is most likely not working as intended - I seriously doubt that the designers and testers had the current effects in mind when devising the mechanic and I do believe that the designers should take a look at it (as I'm sure they are) and decide whether they really want it to be like it is or revise it somehow. They might arrive at a decision to keep it as it is, but I just hope that due thought is put into it. Personally I would change it somehow, but I haven't given it enough thought to give a definite suggestion as to how.

He is more mobile than Rasputina/Ramos and mobility is king in this game. But with Marcus you need to play different (very objective focused) which isn't as streightforward as say, Tina's style. Your first paragraph contradicts the second. "There are no objective tiers but these certain models are objectively worse than others".

But threads which have both bete and broken and/or cuddle that I checked for this year didn't yield results other than magickpockets's posts. The number of threads isn't all that great, really, and checking for cuddle/broken in threads that contain Bete isn't all that time-consuming. But magicpockets said that he has gotten these cuddle cries a lot in person, so I'm content with that. My main point actually is, that "people" cry for all sorts of things. "People" cry/have cried for Cuddling half the minis in the game, but I'm not sure what relevance that has to anything. Some things are sufficiently too powerful for their points cost similar to some Masters being better than others. But listening to "people" won't get you all that far, really. You need convincing arguments as opposed to random cries and I'm fully comfortable in ignoring the latter altogether while listening to and, if necessary, countering the former.

I did go searching (Google is a powerful tool when you know how to use it), but finding stuff that isn't there isn't easy. Of course I couldn't try every possible permutation, which is why I asked for a citation. ---------- Post added at 09:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 PM ---------- Heh, you wish.

Maybe I've missed it, but could you show a few of these many, many cuddle cries for Bete that aren't a general "cuddle Bury" cries that we've been having ever since Dreamer first appeared?

It's an automatic defensive reaction. I see it a lot. Here you go: So you were around during the beginning stages of book one? OK. Non sequitor. So you don't have a very wide playing experience? Finally, since this place for some reason thinks it good form to post something utterly random: aboogawooga-ooga-booga. Pies and canary birds and puppies! Yay! Flowers and beer and tiny tiny kittens.

Synergy or not, there are clear discrepancies between the abilities of different minions. An Ice Golem is a bad minion that you should never take. There are always better options. Always. I can't believe that you actually believe that the game is perfectly balanced. Did you think this before the changes to, for example, the Alps or the Gravedigger mechanic? Actually, judging by your join date, you weren't around when the Gravedigger mechanic was changed, right? Claiming that Seamus (or Molly!) is just as good as Dreamer is... I dunno, have you been to many tournaments, out of interest? Do you play only with a couple of people or do you play a wide variety of opponents? You are implying that I haven't played enough and am just aping what I've read on the forums?

Good stuff - thank you for posting these!

You forgot to account for base sizes in cases where there is burying/summoning/similar stuff happening.

If Wyrd was able to build over two dozen perfectly balanced Masters and Henchmen, why didn't they use these super powers to create perfectly balanced Minions as well?

I find it strange how personally people seem to take these tiers. That the mere suggestion of there being imbalances makes some people fly into full on defense mode. I mean, we've even had people who think that every Master is equally capable and only player skill matters. This is a crazy proposition. It would mean that Wyrd had achieved perfect balance on Masters and minions so a Seamus with nothing but Guild Autopsies should have an equal chance against a Dreamer list with the Twins. I'm honestly mystified by that level of non-thinking defensiveness. As for Calmdown's tiers, he rates Collodi and Ophelia way too high and Zoraida too low. Otherwise it isn't bad, though I would personally use fewer categories. Something like Tier 1: Dreamer, Hamelin, Kirai Tier 1.5: Collette, Zoraida, Pandora Tier 2: The ones not mentioned elsewhere Tier 3: Molly, Kaeris, Lucius With Seamus being very close to being tier 3 but he really is quite a bit better than Molly or Lucius. Ooh, my formula sees more use! That said, I don't think that that many games are at all necessary. I think that you can quite objectively say that Molly sucks and that Dreamer, Kirai and Hamelin rule, for example, based on current data. "Objective" in this has to be interpreted as not being overtly influenced by ranking favourite Masters higher than they should be due to performance, for example. I mean, Dreamer being top tier is subjective, but when 95% of the player base who have tournament experience agree, then it starts to veer into the objective territory insofar as the word is meaningful at all. Flipping the Black Joker when going for the "All Done" is something of a risk, though rather miniscule, right?

Aye, I feel that the question should be which Masters can make do with six stones and which ones absolutely need the full eight. So'mer is about the only one I can see doing well with a low cache (a bit depending on the match up of course).

Ophelia is very complex though in that every model is different and they have a lot of rules. All in all, I feel that demos with boxes that contain a Master, specialist, and three grunts work the best. So Lady Justice, Sonnia, Rasputina, Lilith, Zoraida, and Seamus are IMO the best. Kaeris and Molly are also pretty straightforward. Malifaux is a very complex game and keeping the prospective players from feeling overwhelmed is extremely important. The balance of the forces OTOH isn't important. You should set up a fun scenario (Seamus escaping from Lady Justice is always good fun) and preferably give the one you are demoing to an advantage.

A cool style. I like it when people try for something unorthodox and end up with a fine looking crew. The style is very strong and creates an interesting look that doesn't try to emulate reality but rather go for a distinct, graphic look. Good job!

Ooh, very lively metal - looks really great! The patina and the oxidization and the rust and the scratches - brilliant stuff. The base also works well - eager to see the rest.

That looks great! I love your red! The blue looks a tad overly vibrant in the last pic, but that's probably just the pic since in others it looks ace. The bird is very cool as well. But the best thing is definitely the face. Oozes character!

I like it that in these sorts of arguments over semantics, one side always wants to interpret the word in such absolute terms that it will be a completely invalid as a concept. Defining in one's own little head "cheese" as meaning utterly unbeatable no matter what and then going proudly forward banging the drum that "there is no cheese". It's utterly mystifying. Do these people think that a) someone would agree with that definition and still claim what they are claiming or that somehow this super clever semantical trick will score them points somehow in some invisible war over who's the king of the forums? Why on earth would you interpret a word, like 'useless' in this case, as to mean something so utterly laughable as "playing with that model is no better than playing with a force that's their soulstone cost smaller than the opponent's"? Obviously no one is claiming that for any model and it would be utterly crazy to say something like that. It also seems that this sort of view has a tendency to morph into some kind of weird omniscience belief in the developers where criticizing an aspect (a model) of a game is utterly wrong and can't be right since the developers developed it that way and they are, after all, omniscient and they must have a grand plan and either the players are too stupid to realize how everything is perfectly balanced or that the grand plan will come to fruition in the next book that was designed well before the previous book and brings heaven on earth.