Focus + Actions that cause actions

[Aesop]

If you focus then flurry or charge can you expend the focus on one of resulting actions? Ie. flurry > focus strike, regular strike, regular strike.

[Dracomax]

I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but it only applies to one of them.

[Aesop]

The only tricky thing is: are the resulting actions "declared". The rules on focus say that you can you it when declaring an action...

I'd say they are because you have to declare which (1) AP action you're taking.

[theJudge]

if you focus and then charge/flurry/rapid fire the first attack gains the benefit of focus and then the focus condition is removed from the model.

[Bubblictus]

if you focus and then charge/flurry/rapid fire the first attack gains the benefit of focus and then the focus condition is removed from the model.

Sounds the fairest way of doing it.

However the focus is played on an action (charge) the charge action then includes two other actions. The charge action wouldnt be considered over until after the 2nd attack.

Question came up with Nino using focus can increase his range and then rapid fire to shoot same target 3 times. I think strict interpritation of rules is focus would apply to all 3 shots (or the mellee attacks in charge) as they are taken as part of a different action which is focused.

What are other peoples thoughts?

[daemonkin]

The same argument could be used for DF triggers. Does Metal on Metal (Armor+2) last if triggered on the first action of a flurry for the duration of the action (Flurry) or the action caused by Flurry?

TheJudge and I have discussed this quite a bit but we go with consensus on the attack action.

D.

[Clement]

Focus specifically says you "may" declare it's use; so it could be used on either the first or second action of the charge, or neither technically I guess.

As to the Nino scenario, not sure how you're getting rapid fire on him, but the actions generated by Charge (and rapid fire) are additional actions granted by charging/rapid firing, they are not the same action. The focus action can be consumed to improve one single action, so Either "the charge" which has no actual attacks in it, so bad idea; attack 1; or attack 2.

[Bubblictus]

Nino gets rapid fire from hair trigger upgrade.

The charge action includes 2 seperate attack actions. Rapid fire action includes 3 shooting actions.

Personally I think should only be one of the attacks not all but as they are contained in the original action it coupd be argued.

[Emroch]

If you follow it in simple steps I feel it becomes clearer.

Charging.

step 1. Declare the charge and move into combat range (1st action)

step 2. Perform 1st (1) attack action (2nd action)

step 3. Perform 2nd (1) attack action (3rd action)

At any point between each action you can declare the usage of a focused condition on the following action.

[Bubblictus]

I always thought the two attacks were part of the charge action. The main thing is when charge action ends. Old edition the attacks were part of the charge action.

[MrDeathTrout]

I agree that this is what the rules intend and how the game should be played, but I see why some would disagree. pg 38 in the Actions Causing Actions section says "The original action is not considered resolved until the new Actions are also resolved. So a fourth step needs to be added. You see the original Action is still in the background while the two new actions are performed, does it have any effect on the "new" actions? I say no. Notice in the same sentence it refers to "the original Action" and the "new Actions". That suggests to me that they are separate and distinct actions, and an effect on one action does NOT effect other actions.

step 1. Declare the charge and move into combat range (1st action)

step 2. Perform 1st (1) attack action (2nd action)

step 3. Perform 2nd (1) attack action (3rd action)

step 4. Resolve the charge action (end of 1st action)

[Bubblictus]

Regards to the defence trigger, as that is caused as a result of one of the attack actions it would not carry over to any other attacks that turn.

Main questions is can you focus a chargensonit effects both attacks or would the focus have to be used on just one of the attacks (which is what I think it should be).

Justin can you settle this for us?

[Adran]

The rules tell us that some actions generate new actions. Whilst the first action isn't over until all the new actions are completed, the actions are new actions so go through all the steps for an action, which includes step 1, declare action and spend AP.

The new attacks generated by charge, or rapid fire or Flurry are each their own action. You can choose to spend a focus condition on that action to improve it, but it will only effect that action. The Charge Action normally doean't have any duels associated with it so there is no bonus to spending a focus condition on it. In a few rare circumstances it might have a duel, such as if you are charging a terryfyign model, then there is a duel to pass the Terror, which I guess the focus could help with.

Likewise if you Focus an attack, and get the Onslaught trigger, the new action is not going to benifit from the focus condition

Short answer it will help with 1 action. Each attack in a rapid fire is a different action. It won't help with all of them.

Official FAQ is due out tomorrow, and this might well be covered, but Justin has already said he isn't going to give Rules answers out willynilly in threads anymore, official answers will be in the reagular FAQ documents.

Edited October 31, 2013 by Adran

[Bubblictus]

Just heard from Justin and he says this will be covered in tomorrows FAQ.