Release Schedule

[irishdave]

Is there somewhere that a relative new-comer to the website/forum could find a release schedule for the future plastic sets? Got lots if interest where I play but people are asking when more plastics will come and who/what they will be. A lot of them dislike metal and look forward to plastics so this steer a lot of their purchases etc.

[Ausplosions]

Not yet, no.

[irishdave]

That's a shame... what about for the Through the Breach RPG? Is there any info for that? I missed out on the kickstarter so am keen for more info

[Forar]

Through the Breach had a tentative release to Backers target of September, though Wyrd expressed optimism about getting it to Backers in August, when the Gencon Canon Campaign would be happening (and thus, presumably the project was pretty far along).

The canon campaign happened (and sounds like they had a blast), but they announced in early August that they wouldn't make an August release, and wouldn't make September in early September. Last I heard they were hard at work, and would let us know as soon as they had a firm date, but nothing since has been said on the topic.

Given that whomever they get their books from reportedly knocked off 5k books in around 2 weeks for M2E, the turn around for the backer books shouldn't be much longer (barring extenuating circumstances), but it does rule out Oct entirely, and makes November look a bit unlikely. There have been updates for the player's book regularly, but the Fate Master's Guide apparently remains under NDA and closed Beta, so it's hard to say even with an eye on 'the sausage being made' how far along or not the process is (as an outsider, of course).

So basically "?".

[irishdave]

I will wait on the edge of my seat then... very excited about the future of this gaming universe and all it literally brings to the table.

[Anaxiamander]

We have a decent notion that the releases pre-offered at GenCon will be taking us into November, but beyond that we don't have too much of a framework available currently. Most online retailers are listing Rasputina and Lilith boxed sets for release on October 31st, while the Death Marshals box, the Ice Gamin box, and the Viktorias boxed set are set to release sometime in November. Not terribly forward-looking, but it is at least useful information for those interested in those crews (noting, of course, that Lady Justice and Seamus' boxed sets are already released).

[irishdave]

It would be lovely if the guys at WYRD could look at a public announcement, if possible. I'm just so excited for it all lol :-)

[faeslayer]

I agree... Dying for at least a clue about what's next!

Right now it seems like there's nothing after November, and that's spooky.

[Dracomax]

Here's hoping for some Ramos fun in December.(although Rasputina would have been more fitting...)

And some Sonnia to warm up January or February.

[RagingRodian]

I am hoping that the releases for early/mid 2014, be they metal or plastic or both, focus on making models for things that we don't already have rather than continuing to reinvent the wheel.

[Dracomax]

I am hoping that the releases for early/mid 2014, be they metal or plastic or both, focus on making models for things that we don't already have rather than continuing to reinvent the wheel.

Then you probably mostly hope in vain. I say this not because I have insider information, but because it is what they have said about M2E. New models, which are still in testing, are going to be after all of the wave one models save those already released in plastic. In fact, the only reason we got Tara was that some time had been reserved for the nightmare edition.

It has to do with the wait times that Justin and Nathan have described for the plastic process; wasted time is lost money, so every minute is scheduled far in advance. unless they have designs ready and set up far in advance, they can't use the molds. This means that those models they knew a year or so ago were going to be remade in plastic are the most likely to go first—which implies that metal models are going to be closer on the list than new models.

That being said, I would guess we get Brewmaster sooner than later, and lone martial probably fairly early, too. Other than that, there weren't really very many new models in wave 1.

---------- Post added at 11:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------

Also, keep in mind that is going to be fairly high priority to get M1.5 models replaced with models that have M2E rules.

[RagingRodian]

Then you probably mostly hope in vain. I say this not because I have insider information, but because it is what they have said about M2E. New models, which are still in testing, are going to be after all of the wave one models save those already released in plastic. In fact, the only reason we got Tara was that some time had been reserved for the nightmare edition.

It has to do with the wait times that Justin and Nathan have described for the plastic process; wasted time is lost money, so every minute is scheduled far in advance. unless they have designs ready and set up far in advance, they can't use the molds. This means that those models they knew a year or so ago were going to be remade in plastic are the most likely to go first—which implies that metal models are going to be closer on the list than new models.

That being said, I would guess we get Brewmaster sooner than later, and lone martial probably fairly early, too. Other than that, there weren't really very many new models in wave 1.

Remember, we are talking about models coming out at the end of beta and, as you mentioned, we already have holes in the current book that constitute a month or two's worth of models before we hit the new beta stuff. We could potentially see the missing Book 1 models released in January, then start releasing new beta models in Feb/March.

Or, go the simple approach. Fill in some of the holes with new metal models to tide us over. They have a fast turn around time, Wyrd has shown they can make excellent models in that medium, and there is no real reason why they couldn't continue to make both plastics and metals. You make both camps happy and people won't have to potentially wait a year for missing models for their crews- and if Wyrd does need a year to make a new plastic set as you mentioned that is long wait!

Regarding updated rules for old models, Wyrd has already shown the ability to put new cards into old sets.

Edited October 22, 2013 by RagingRodian

[Dracomax]

I'm not saying that they won't release any new models early, just that the logistics of the situation make it far more likely that we will see wave 1 before wave 2, and first edition plastic resculpts before new M2E-only models.

[Mako]

Or, go the simple approach. Fill in some of the holes with new metal models to tide us over. They have a fast turn around time, Wyrd has shown they can make excellent models in that medium, and there is no real reason why they couldn't continue to make both plastics and metals. You make both camps happy and people won't have to potentially wait a year for missing models for their crews- and if Wyrd does need a year to make a new plastic set as you mentioned that is long wait!

Just to put this one finally to rest, Wyrd have said multiple times before they're moving fully to plastic, that they will not make any new metals, and will steadily replace all the old ones as the crew boxes become ready. All future releases will be plastic - it's not economically sensible to make both, in terms of time, staffing, hiring sculptors, casting costs etc. So asking or hoping for more metals is pretty much pointless as it's not going to happen.

I'd estimate given the current release list (my guesswork, not insider info, just to be clear) that we'll likely see two crew boxes, or one and a few other bits, per month. That finishes the book one stuff before the middle of next year (April-May perhaps), when the book two stuff can start appearing. I'm pretty certain someone mentioned at one point that wave one had the first set of timeslots for art, sculpting and casting, so I'm confident that (barring odd issues) wave one will be done first, and wave two after.

I'd further guess that some of the new crews will be on the priority list for their wave (brewmaster, for example) but it depends on how long it takes to get the artwork ready, digital sculpts done, initial test casts back, and everything sorted to Wyrd's satisfaction. They can want to release brewmaster in December all they like, if the sprues aren't coming into the warehouse in time then it won't happen, and they've shown before that holding stuff back for quality reasons is something they're prepared to do when necessary. As Dracomax said, wasted casting and mould time is expensive, so what's ready will get done (which could easily be the older crews).

Not that I wouldn't love to know a release list, and see the brewmaster models, but the number of variables makes it very hard for Wyrd to predict what will be ready to release more than a few months in advance. We only have info about the three months post gencon because they get everything ready for prerelease at gencon itself, then space the standard release of that stuff out over the next three months typically.

[ork56]

Wish I had read this last post before buying back into M2E.

I really do prefer metal minis and to know now that they are a dying breed makes me sad. I hope that I can round out my crews in metal without a Confrontation type price hike on 2nd hand minis.

[Mister Shine]

Metal is like Punk now

Dead

Long live the plastic reign!

[irishdave]

Thanks to Mako for his insight. It's good to know that there may be a plan and a structure. Yes it certainly makes sense to fill out wave1 first, especially brewmaster as hesitant have any actual models. Thank you for your positive and instructive feedback. Wyrd for the win!

[RagingRodian]

Regardless of personal feelings about plastic or metal, there are people that will buy metal miniatures or both metal and plastic. It isn't an either or situation.

Speaking as someone that actually did this for a living, making both is very doable. Wyrd obviously makes money off of their metal figures. Metal does not compete for casting resources with plastic, can use the same art as plastic, and does not compete for sculptors. While there are advantages and disadvantages to both materials, in the case of making new releases the relative speed of releasing metal as well as the ability to do smaller casting runs allows metal to compensate for some of the flaws of making plastics.

Economically, there is no need for Wyrd to stop making metals. If they are, for some reason, losing money making metal models something is very wrong. Nonetheless, if they are going to stubbornly keep to a "new new metals" policy it will negatively impact their release schedule for the forseeable future- and that hurts everyone who is looking forward to models to go with the new characters being introduced.

Personally, I have hundreds of models in both materials. A good model is a good model. As a consumer, I do have the right to ask a company not to stop making something that I like.

[Mister Shine]

Somewhat ironic calling wyrd stubborn on their policy of moving away from the pewter medium though

I can easily see a company not wanting to maintain two separate production facilities, paying for digital sculptors AND traditional greens.. Im sure there are other costs as well, I mean every major company is moving away from metal to plastics, so I think it more than just personal preference here

Edited October 22, 2013 by Mister Shine

[Forar]

Economically, there is no need for Wyrd to stop making metals. If they are, for some reason, losing money making metal models something is very wrong.

They have specifically stated that materials costs for metal figures were rising, and they either had a choice of raising the prices for consumers, or moving to plastics. They chose the latter.

Though to be fair, the plastic boxes (on average) seem to have increased by a model and a not-insignificant sum anyway. Rasputina's box in metal is $26, and in plastic is $36 at a local store. Yes, yes, it comes with the Wendigo now. Just pointing it out before someone else got around to it.

As a consumer, I do have the right to ask a company not to stop making something that I like.

You're certainly free to ask, but they've been pretty clear about this for the last year and change. It was talked about extensively around 2012's Gencon, and I can't imagine another year has changed that outlook much.

[edonil]

$26? O.o I've never seen the old Raspy box that low. Mine was $35, and a $5 increase to get both the Wendigo and account for the sheer massiveness of the new Ice Golem is more than reasonable to me.

And while you may feel you have the right to ask a company to not stop making something you like, Wyrd has every right to tell you that they are moving forward anyway. They are not required to listen to you just because you feel they should. The decision has been made- either find a way to live with it, or start sculpting your own proxies for personal use.

[Mako]

Though to be fair, the plastic boxes (on average) seem to have increased by a model and a not-insignificant sum anyway. Rasputina's box in metal is $26, and in plastic is $36 at a local store. Yes, yes, it comes with the Wendigo now. Just pointing it out before someone else got around to it.

Also made the ice golem soooooo much bigger and more epic *grin*

From the sounds of it, that price increase was happening anyway, they just chose to use it to give us bigger box sets instead of the same stuff at a higher price.

I think Shine was probably pretty accurate there on why not use two materials - why pay for two sets of production for crew boxes that for the most part, people will buy one of (in whichever material). Higher outlay, no increase in income.

I sympathise with those that like metal, it must be a disappointment and a concern that you won't be able to pick up new stuff in metal, or expand your old crews like that in a few years time. But I'd really like to lay this whole future product material thing to rest now - it's not up for debate, and doesn't need to come up every time someone asks about release schedules or a model.

[Forar]

$26? O.o I've never seen the old Raspy box that low.

Now you have.

:-D

Edit: Also, that's not on sale, just that shop's naturally low prices.

The War Store has them for the same price.

[edonil]

That's different from regular retail price, but I'll grant you. Technically it's a sale price, because that's not the MSRP. And I was wrong on the regular price, it's $32. So, $8 increase for a giant Ice Golem and a Wendigo.

[RagingRodian]

Somewhat ironic calling wyrd stubborn on their policy of moving away from the pewter medium though

I can easily see a company not wanting to maintain two separate production facilities, paying for digital sculptors AND traditional greens.. Im sure there are other costs as well, I mean every major company is moving away from metal to plastics, so I think it more than just personal preference here

Not really ironic, that is what it is.

There aren't separate facilities, the plastics are outsourced to China. Of course there are costs, but making a profit from the line means you are recouping costs, and there is now way that Wyrd does not make money off of metals. No, every major company has not moved away from metal to plastics. Even companies that do make both plastics and metals still make new metals- the Perry twins and Warlord being two examples off of the top of my head.

I won't even touch GW and the horrors of Finecast......

---------- Post added at 02:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 AM ----------

They have specifically stated that materials costs for metal figures were rising, and they either had a choice of raising the prices for consumers, or moving to plastics. They chose the latter.

Though to be fair, the plastic boxes (on average) seem to have increased by a model and a not-insignificant sum anyway. Rasputina's box in metal is $26, and in plastic is $36 at a local store.

A little background, I used to cast figures, make molds, hire sculptors, do packaging, and buy tin alloys for a living. I am well aware that tin has gone up in price over the last few years. I am also aware of how little tin actually goes into making miniatures, how small of a factor in figuring out costs for miniatures that it is, and how much the cost of figures in general- not just metals- has gone up in the same time period. They aren't losing money here, and quite a few other companies seem to be capable of making money from selling tin miniatures at a comparable price.

As you noted, the whole "we had to switch to plastics to keep the prices down" falls apart when you are charging metals prices for plastics. Check out the prices on the single models in plastic- $11 a head. Look through the online store and you will find examples of metal figures at that price or less.

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 AM ----------

And while you may feel you have the right to ask a company to not stop making something you like, Wyrd has every right to tell you that they are moving forward anyway. They are not required to listen to you just because you feel they should. The decision has been made- either find a way to live with it, or start sculpting your own proxies for personal use.

You are correct, and I am not saying "make metal or else!". What I do object to is the reactions.

Metal is what made Wyrd what it is today, if it wasn't for people being willing to buy metal figures Wyrd would not have lasted long enough to even be able to release an M2E. It isn't like this is a foreign idea. It is also not to say that Wyrd should stop making plastics. People like plastics, and continuing to make plastics should have little impact on the ability to make future plastics. In fact, if it is making a little extra money it will actually help to fund more plastics. This isn't a losing proposition for anyone.

Nonetheless, if I start talking about the potential to make some more cool models in metal of point out that metal does have advantages and plastics have disadvantages I am greeted with hostility, unconstructive posts, and a moderator looking over my shoulder. Not only in this thread but in other places on the forum. This is disappointing to say the least.

---------- Post added at 02:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------

I think Shine was probably pretty accurate there on why not use two materials - why pay for two sets of production for crew boxes that for the most part, people will buy one of (in whichever material). Higher outlay, no increase in income.

I sympathise with those that like metal, it must be a disappointment and a concern that you won't be able to pick up new stuff in metal, or expand your old crews like that in a few years time. But I'd really like to lay this whole future product material thing to rest now - it's not up for debate, and doesn't need to come up every time someone asks about release schedules or a model.

As to the first point, you can sell to different markets. You can also release models in metal sooner than plastic, sell them to interested buyers, then later on when you can make them in plastic sell them to people again because it is new, bright and shiny. Miniatures buyers do that.

As to your second point, it is a much deeper disappointment. As I said before, I worked in this industry for many years and still maintain good ties in the industry. I know that the excuses for switching are flimsy, unlike most people on these forums I know this from direct experience, not second hand or heresay. Unfortunately, this also means that I realize that if Wyrd does phase out metals it is more due to not wanting to bother rather than any manufacturing or economic reason. That is a disservice to people who like metals, and deserves better than just being ignored.