Malifaux and Race

[i_was_like_you]

In any case, that incredibly-large-yet-hard-to-define area is only represented by one model.

Agreed.

Maybe it's like Highlander, and there can be only one. So far we haven't even gotten the two of any one group to make it Noah's Ark. It's either just one, or omg-look-how-many-ten-thunders-there-are!

[rsteelrose]

... But there's only one Native American, and only one person from the Middle East.

I would really love to play a Native American crew/faction. I was super into cowboys & indians when I was a kid and the ortegas are what drew me to this game.

[Setoth]

I would really love to play a Native American crew/faction. I was super into cowboys & indians when I was a kid and the ortegas are what drew me to this game.

You could always pimp this out in your local gaming group alongside Malifaux.

http://www.wildwestexodus.com/

[rsteelrose]

You could always pimp this out in your local gaming group alongside Malifaux.

http://www.wildwestexodus.com/

I've been watching it, but I just can't get afford to get into another mini game.

[Ausplosions]

Well I refuse to play any crew that DOES NOT contain some stereotypical racism.

I'm fun like that. Plus if any self righteous types walk in and get all huffy ove it, it gives me the chance to tell them their stereotypical dislike of stereotypical racism is stupid and that I also think their religion is dumb. Because why not.

Nothing like causing indignation for the self righteous.

[dgraz]

lol. I love you Aus

[Mister Shine]

And Aus loves my signature

[Demota]

Sure, put today's hang-ups on a period piece.

I want a re-make of The Seven Samurai.....I mean, why do they all dress and act like that? It's so stereo-typical.

While we're at it, a re-make of Tombstone where the Earps are Asian and Doc Holiday is a Purple-People-Eater.

Malifaux isn't historical drama. It's alternate history fiction. Doctor Who had a woman of African descent play a French noblewoman in the 18th century. It was weird, yeah, but I certainly don't think it hurt the show.

[Lewkas]

Well I refuse to play any crew that DOES NOT contain some stereotypical racism.

I'm fun like that. Plus if any self righteous types walk in and get all huffy ove it, it gives me the chance to tell them their stereotypical dislike of stereotypical racism is stupid and that I also think their religion is dumb. Because why not.

Nothing like causing indignation for the self righteous.

I'll pray for you mate.

[Ausplosions]

I'll pray for you mate.

Try and Pray me up a new motorbike while you're there?

[Demota]

I've been watching it, but I just can't get afford to get into another mini game.

Let's be honest. How many times have we all said this?

[Mako]

Ok people, lets all behave. This is one of those subjects that causes really heated discussions, so lets try to word posts carefully, leave hyperbole out, and interpret other people's posts generously.

Otherwise, this discussion is going to get cut short.

[Hateful Darkblack]

I love talking about this subject, and thanks for bringing it up, Demota!

Personally, one of the things I really like about Malifaux is the good mix of races, genders, and ages of characters in the game. And I love that there's a badass and very believable character with polio, too! There's no LGBT representation, which is too bad, but I like that there are both male and female "cheesecake/beefcake" models. I also like that there are plenty of non-cheesecake female models.

One note: Ten Thunders does include an Indian sniper, Sidir Alchibal. Well, it's unclear if he's Indian or Persian, since the name Sidir is used in both, and his outfit could either be Persian or Punjabi. Still, that's one example they do have.

I actually kind of like Injun Joss. One of the most pervasive stereotypes about Native Americans is that they are low-tech, obsolete, or "living in the past". Joss is none of those - he's all cyborg, super high-tech, and looks like the most modern character in the game. The name "Injun Joss" carries a lot of racist stereotypes, so I'm glad they changed it just to Joss, but I really hope they don't retroactively turn him into a white dude.

That said, I agree that there are problems with race in the Ten Thunders specifically. Chinese rail workers definitely makes sense given the Old West feeling (and honestly, I am more suspicious of Old West settings that ignore immigrant labor than those that include it), but yes, I think it would be better if there were more Asian characters who broke stereotypes. M2E added some cool high-tech Ten Thunders characters (Fuhatsu FTW!), so I hope that keeps getting better.

Here's the other thing, though. I would much, much rather a company include characters of multiple ethnicities and sometimes slip into stereotypes, than have a company who avoided any critique by having all their characters be white men. Wyrd clearly puts effort into character diversity, and I'm grateful for it.

[rsteelrose]

Let's be honest. How many times have we all said this?

Agreed, but its hard enough to get games of Malifaux in my area, so even less known games would be just as hard if not worse...plus my wife would lynch me.

[Mister Shine]

[Demota]

Calm down, Lynch. Things are cool between us.

[Matney X]

Agreed, but its hard enough to get games of Malifaux in my area, so even less known games would be just as hard if not worse...plus my wife would lynch me.

I've felt the same way. Bushido looks AWESOME, and I backed Empire of the Dead so I have the rules, but no one around Utah seems to want to break out of their 40k/WarmaHordes comfort zones, and many FLGS' won't stock obscure games.

Back on topic -- I won't lie, I'm kinda sad there isn't a Baron Samedi-type character. Nicodim comes close, and so does Zoraida, but neither are a New Orleans' Voodoo priest.

[Demota]

A Baron Samedi type would be pretty fantastic, though finding a niche for one would be tricky. Zoraida's already got the voodoo, and Nicodem's got the fashion. I can't think of any two masters who share the majority of their models (unless you count the Viktorias).

Maybe some special zombies, and then you can hire voodoo dolls on top of that.

[rsteelrose]

[SpiralngCadavr]

As a Japanese/Jewish/{European/American white mix} person involved in creating narratives, a couple points to bring to the table.

First, yes, I would like it if there were a few more less-stereotypical non-white characters in Malifaux, but I think there are already a few very interesting ones. I think Joss is pretty nuanced, and think that "Injun" does some interesting stuff for his character and speaks to the setting. I think that Marcus has definitely evolved into an interesting character that doesn't really speak to his origins. I enjoy that Ten Thunders is the heavily cross-faction faction and has a lot of non-asian models in it: there's nothing cliquishly asian about it.

Second, I wholly reject the idea of non-ethnic non-white characters. White is neutral, both in our society/time and in narrative. Unless you make a point about it, it's easy to let white just sit there as-is, though you can make it part of a character's place in society, largely because it's not a minority. If you make a character a minority character without otherwise changing the characters, you'll do one of two things: either you'll you'll unintentionally be adding other meanings to the character, or you'll be (for lack of a better term) re-skinning the character.

As an example of the former, I was working on a piece set in the early 1900's, and we realized that the main characters were predominantly (though not entirely) white, and wanted to try making one of the main characters black because it would be appropriate to the setting. We couldn't do it, because every case would have had racial implications that we didn't want to have and couldn't change details without compromising the narrative.

In response to the latter, I think the idea of re-skinning a character or making one a minority without addressing it in any way is in many ways the same BS as "eracism." I think it's wrong to ignore race, because with race comes history and context, and everything else. I think people should be treated equally, but that doesn't mean I think they should be treated the same. For instance, if my parents or grandparents had been different races than they were, their life and mine would be very different than it is now. Ignoring race cheapens history and context.

[Omenbringer]

A Baron Samedi type would be pretty fantastic, though finding a niche for one would be tricky. Zoraida's already got the voodoo, and Nicodem's got the fashion. I can't think of any two masters who share the majority of their models (unless you count the Viktorias).

Maybe some special zombies, and then you can hire voodoo dolls on top of that.

That type of character would be great in the Gremlin faction.

[Demota]

Yeah, that's true. Maybe some kind of artifact of culture would be ideal, to help to tie them in with their background. Their clothing, an accessory, the magic or minions they use, etc.

Drudging up one of the examples I brought up earlier, there could be, say, a Japanese gambler model. Probably dresses in the western style, since that's what Malifaux society is likely to read as culturally stylish, but maybe s/he could use a fan as a weapon, or wear an oni mask, or whatever.

That type of character would be great in the Gremlin faction.

Oh man, I didn't even think of that. Gremlin Samedi. I would buy that. Heck, dual faction him into the Rezzers.

[Mister Shine]

Drudging up one of the examples I brought up earlier, there could be, say, a Japanese gambler model. Probably dresses in the western style, since that's what Malifaux society is likely to read as culturally stylish, but maybe s/he could use a fan as a weapon, or wear an oni mask, or whatever.

[Demota]

I knew something about that idea was familiar to me. Derp. I admit I haven't seen him hit the table yet, so he's just sort of floating in that nebulous thought-space in my head with models like Malifaux Child and Ashes and Dust.

Okay, let's say that Indian sniper idea. Have him wearing modern mercenary gear, but have a prominently displayed gurkha knife. I don't think that already exists.

[Mister Shine]

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