Hateful Darkblack Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I still haven't played a whole lot of M2E, but every time I play it, I like it more. I have seen Wyrd do a lot of awesome things and make good decisions. The things I love: - The strategies and schemes. The mechanics are so elegant, well-written, and balanced. They work out really nicely in play, and I have yet to stumble on a gotchya. The schemes make for interesting choices, and unlike M1.5, there's rarely a single best choice that you use every time. - Misfit models restored. I feel like some models that were widely regarded as underpowered might get dusted off with the new version. I'm lookin' at you, Malifaux Child! - Intriguing revisions. Several new synergies have popped up that look like they're a lot of fun. - Super quality models. The new models look great, and I feel like Wyrd has been doing a great job of listening to customer feedback to improve their model creation process. - Premeasuring! Premeasuring works fine, and doesn't result in the apocalypse of over-measuring that some people predicted. If anything, it speeds things up a lot, since there are fewer is-that-three-inches-or-two-point-eight moments that always create five minutes of indecision. The things that I don't love, but just need to get used to: - The increased simplicity. I generally like my games to be baroque and complex. M2E is a little simpler and easier to learn, which I suspect is a plus for most people, but kind of a minus for me. - Increased costs. Everything costs a little more and your encounter size raises. This means a little more writing down numbers when I'm picking crew, which is fine, but a little more cumbersome. - Different soulstones. Soulstones are no longer the game-winningest things out there, so it's no longer as useful a tactic to save them up for defensively vulnerable masters. Instead, they seem more subtle and strategic, giving things like better card flow and certainty of needed suits, which means I have to change how I rely on them. The things that will decide when and how I switch to M2E: - Model support for M1.5 masters/henchmen. I don't want to throw away Collodi or Hamelin, or stop playing them for a year or two waiting for new rules. I suspect there will be a period of time where I'll be playing both games: M2E if my opponent and I both want to play a crew that's supported in M2E, M1.5 otherwise. The sooner the rest of my models get support, the sooner I'll switch over. - Card Changeover. This is, I think, the biggest thing I'm looking out for. I have a lot invested in my M1.5 models. If I can't get cards for the models I have right now, or if I have to buy a bunch of cards that I'll never use to get the cards that I do use, I'll be grumpy! Wyrd has done a great job in the past in supporting affordable a la carte card upgrades. I hope they continue to have awesome, well-thought out policies and plans. ---------- Post added at 10:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 PM ---------- (To be clear: I'm basing this on the open beta, which has been a lot of fun. I know that there's a lot that I still don't know, and won't until I buy the book, which of course I will.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat_Canis Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 First of all I liked how you put the comment that you like it the more you play it because I very much felt the same way, after my first game with Marcus one of my favorite masters in 1e i almost just said this was terrible and I quit, but I have liked it more and more the more I understand the difference. I agree and disagree with some of your statements the main one being I put the scheme and strats in my I don't like category at this point especially strategies. I really liked the gaining grounds strats and I think that schemes are still not where they need to be but I will definitely be interested in the final cut of them. As for the simplicity on the models as I keep looking at them its not that they have become more simple to me and I like the vibe off of most the models to me the feel of simplicity really hits home with the lack of AP on the very high stone models like the Mature Nephilum. Over all I feel that while the forums have very vocal I love this game and its amazing, or the this game is terrible we want to stay where we are. Though these two camps are loud and vocal I feel that most of the community is in a situation like you where you are not 100% sold on the new changes and feel somethings can be done better but are willing to give it a try. I do personally think though that wyrd might have needed some more time after the Beta to do some in house testing before sending the book to pint. Thank you for the post it was good to read what I think is a common feeling in that the game is different and the more you play the more you get used to it and can decided if it will be for you or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm definitely planning to play M2E. I guess the question for me is "How much stuff will I buy, and how much will I keep playing M1.5 after M2E comes out?" And these depend a lot on how difficult and/or expensive it will be to get new cards for my already-bought-and-painted-and-loved models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm definitely planning to play M2E. I guess the question for me is "How much stuff will I buy, and how much will I keep playing M1.5 after M2E comes out?" And these depend a lot on how difficult and/or expensive it will be to get new cards for my already-bought-and-painted-and-loved models. It should be fairly simple/cheap to get all your cards. There are decks for everything in book 1 coming at Gencon, and then another deck in Jan/Feb once the remaining goes official. Whatever the second deck will also have all the book 1 stuff is the only real question at this point I think. (As well as the price, but they keep saying as cheap as possible so let's see) And of course there is the beta from September so we will get to see everything from then on. As for how much 1.5 there will be played, my guess would be not much. Just based on seeing previous edition changes in games. Unless its group of X edition diehards it tends to just be the new edition. If it was a very different game, like 2nd 40k is nothing like later editions then maybe, but the game really haven't changed that much from 1.5 to 2.0. Just the way game editions seems to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TroyPerez Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 To the original poster I have a question. Or I guess anyone can reply to this really. Where do you put the upgrade system on your likes/dislikes? I think they are a cool idea, but I don't see myself swapping them out as much as they were intended for. So I guess I kinda wish I could just get some of the less complicated ones already written into my cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ausplosions Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think they have been well implemented. There are tough choices to be made during crew selection now when it comes to what models plus upgrades to take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clement Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 To the original poster I have a question. Or I guess anyone can reply to this really. Where do you put the upgrade system on your likes/dislikes? I think they are a cool idea, but I don't see myself swapping them out as much as they were intended for. So I guess I kinda wish I could just get some of the less complicated ones already written into my cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) For me the upgrade system works fine today. What I really like is the opportunity for this to grow and expand. Which will give us more hard choices and flexibility as we go forward. Edited July 30, 2013 by mythicFOX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helm Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Thanks a lot for the review and all of its detail; I for one had never thought about adding the larger numbers for Crew costs, but a GW background gets you used to large numbers anyhow =/ I'll certainly bear it in mind when demoing the game. I don't want to throw away Collodi or Hamelin, or stop playing them for a year or two waiting for new rules. I suspect there will be a period of time where I'll be playing both games: M2E if my opponent and I both want to play a crew that's supported in M2E, M1.5 otherwise. The sooner the rest of my models get support, the sooner I'll switch over. As far as I understand it, the open beta for Book 2 Masters begins September (or in or around then). This covers all 1.5 models not already covered, with Leveticus going around the block again for some more testing before final release. It's not going to be a case of playing those Masters in a year or so; hopefully we're talking weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 Late September/early October is when I heard the next wave is supposed to start open. Looking forward to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PierceSternum Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'll not get into what I dislike about M2E in this thread. Instead, I will say that what I like most is that, as a "completionist" that likes to have all the models in his factions, M2E has made nearly every model in my factions usable for something. So, rather than sitting on my shelf so that I "have them all", I can actually bring most, if not all of my faction with me, knowing that there is a chance I might choose to use any of them. (Assuming the next round of models does as good a job at leaving no models behind) While I believe there is a couple exceptions to the rule, its definitely a step up over current M1E for overall model choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentat_Canis Posted July 30, 2013 Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 To the original poster I have a question. Or I guess anyone can reply to this really. Where do you put the upgrade system on your likes/dislikes? I think they are a cool idea, but I don't see myself swapping them out as much as they were intended for. So I guess I kinda wish I could just get some of the less complicated ones already written into my cards. To this for me the upgrade system has a ton of promise at the moment and it really has room to grow and change, I think the biggest issue with the upgrade system is 4ss significant models, but all in all I don't like it I like having everything on the card but if you were going to do equipment this is a better way to do it then a generic pool where you buy from and this really is just a equipment system. I have to say I am not happy then went this way but since they did this is the best way to do it and they need to get more upgrades out soon which I don't think would be that hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hateful Darkblack Posted July 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2013 (edited) It should be fairly simple/cheap to get all your cards. There are decks for everything in book 1 coming at Gencon, and then another deck in Jan/Feb once the remaining goes official. I'm hoping this is simple and cheap -- some of it depends on implementation. Specifically: I hope I don't have to buy a whole deck because I need just one card in it. (Such as, say, the Killjoy I want to include in my McMourning crew, or the Papa Loco I might want to include in my Zoraida crew.) I love the way that Wyrd offers stat cards a la carte for 50 cents currently; I hope they keep doing so. ---------- Post added at 04:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 PM ---------- To the original poster I have a question. Or I guess anyone can reply to this really. Where do you put the upgrade system on your likes/dislikes? I think they are a cool idea, but I don't see myself swapping them out as much as they were intended for. So I guess I kinda wish I could just get some of the less complicated ones already written into my cards. Upgrades seem generally well-implemented, and they add back some of the complexity that I've been missing. Some of the Upgrades seem kind of underpowered for the cost (which I guess isn't a problem because you just won't take them), and some are so good that I'd never NOT take them (which I sort of think means they should just go on the main card and adjust the cache appropriately.) Most of them do something interesting: They let you adjust which possible tactical angles and/or synergies you want to bring out from a particular master. Most of the Masters in M1.5 had abilities that didn't come into effect much -- options that you just didn't use much, spells that didn't really synergize with what you were doing, et cetera. I feel like these are moved off the cards now, and their role (optional abilities that might come to the fore with some unusual tactical idea) has been moved to the Upgrades. Instead of picking a way you'll play your Master and ignoring the stuff on your card that doesn't work with that, you pick a way you'll play your Master and then buy the Upgrade that lets you play that way. I'm also excited because Upgrades seem like they'll be easier to expand in future products. It would be neat if, in future books, they could revisit existing Masters with new Upgrades, possibly plot-specific upgrades or synergies with new models. This also seems like a potential way that Wyrd can adjust any Masters that end up underpowered - a new Upgrade could turn that around smoothly without any errata. Edited July 31, 2013 by Hateful Darkblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Footman Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 meh, I've known people who play the latest edition of 40k, and still take a weekend to play the original rouge trader ruleset, I dont see why people can't play both to their preference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbad Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) meh, I've known people who play the latest edition of 40k, and still take a weekend to play the original rouge trader ruleset, I dont see why people can't play both to their preference That goes back to something I said earlier, 6th ed 40k is a very different game from RT(and 2nd from both of them). Its not really the same game at all, they just share some of the background. 1.5 and M2E just isn't that different. Its pretty much the same game with some tweaks, so I think you will see fewer people playing both/1.5 than in those cases and even there its pretty rare. Edited July 31, 2013 by Gorbad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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