Psyfer Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 Hello everyone, I'm looking at starting up with Malifaux and the first crew I'm looking at is Lilith. The Crew list I'm looking at at the moment goes as follows: 35 ss Scrap Lilith + Avatar + Cherub Black Blood Shaman Nekima, The Dark Sibling 3 Terror Tot Nephilim This leaves Lilith with (4+3) 7 soulstones. *** So, can anyone give any hints and tips for using the list? Also, what are the odds of having the Terror tots age up? Is it worth while buying more then 2 Young Nephilim or more then one Elder Nephilim for the above list? Cheers and thank you in advance for your advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 (edited) You have a pretty good chance of growing your tots with that. I probably wouldn't buy more than 2 young and 1 mature nephlim to support that list (mature are rare 2) The most common way of playing that style of list involves hiring a desperate mercenary and killing him off with a terror tot on turn 1. The tot can then grow to a young with its own blood counter. The Blackblood shamen can turn the corpse counter into a blood count, and Nekima can hurt herself which leaves you enough counters to get another terror tot to Mature. You can also hope to kill enemies for blood. Nekima is quite expensive for what she does, but for this sort of thing she can be great, removing the need to draw a mask fore the grows. The risk to this sort of list is that you lose Tempo. You have turned time into better models which is good, but Time is Finite and you need to make sure that you can still manage to achieve your missions. If my memory serves me correctly, this was a popular list to try when the second book came out, but soon most people decide that using both the Black blood shamen and Nekima was over the top and went to using only one. Finally if you are planning on a grow list, then getting the Nephlim of Lelu and Lilitu is somethign to consider. You can turn a Terror tot or a cherub into the other twin for 2 blood counters. Edited November 21, 2012 by Adran Correcting error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathnard Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I probably wouldn't buy more than 2 young and 1 mature nephlim to support that list (mature are rare 1) Matures are actually Rare 2. To me, the core of a grow list consists of Nekima and at least 3 Tots, with a desperate merc or two for cheap blood counters. Nekima grows to Tots into at least Youngs, then supports them as they go to work on the opponent's crew. The Blood Shaman is an option but IMO, it's a bit redundant if you've already got Nekima and the Shaman itself tends to want those blood counters too. Regarding Avatar Lilith - If you take her I think you should also grab at least one Waldgeist, possibly two. They benefit so much from the many forests she throws down, so it almost seems a waste to exclude them. Other than that, what Adran said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcalla Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 I would suggest dropping the avatar form, Lilith is capable enough in normal form to do what you want. And as Rathnard said her forests are more synergistic with Waldgeist's. Also with the 2 added stones, you can hire a Desperate Merc for sacrifice to fuel your tots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyfer Posted November 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 You've all given me a lot to think about, thank you for the advice. I'll tinker with the idea a bit and see how I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiaden Posted November 21, 2012 Report Share Posted November 21, 2012 The thing with the Avatar Lilith and Waldgeists is, that they do want forests on the table. Of course you can cast Illusionary Forest and let a Waldgeist sit in it but a 3" forest is not that big. Indeed you want at least a bit more than 3" so that the Waldgeist may touch the forest for moving it on the table and still not being seen from the other side. (Regular models only look up to 3" in forests.) But even when there are no forests on the table a Waldgeist is not a bad pick. Its still takes a beat what is seldom for Neverborn. And the Avatar although not as good on a table without forests can perform quite good too with only the forests it brings itself to the table. After all its only 2 points and if the game doesn't support your Avatar playstyle you just can ignore it and not work towards manifesting it. Your first list proposal is still not bad I would adjust it only slightly for the reasons mentioned above. Exchange the Black Blood Shaman with a Waldgeist and the Malifaux Cherub with a Desperate Mercenary. The Cherub is lost either way when you enter Avatar form. Your usuall grow Activation looks then like that. 1: Nekima activates and gives the Terror Tots a Mask to Ca. Then she hurts herself for 4Wds to generate 1 Blood Counter. Last she hits the Desperate Mercenary for 3 Dg. Only do the last thing if you are able to cheat the weak damage because you don't want to kill the mercenary only get him down to 1 Wd. 2: Terror Tot Attacks the Desperate Mercenary and kills him already with weak damage. The Tot uses his action to drain a Blood counter and Nekima gets a Blood counter for being within 3" of a living model that got killed. Nekima also gets a healing flip because of a special rule of the Desperate Mercenary. Your second AP is then Grow with the Terror Tot. 3 - 4: Grow with the other Terror Tots to get Youngs. You would need then 3 Youngs obviously and I would recommend buying 2 Matures. I had it more than once that my enemy crashed into my army and killed got killed several models close to Nekima so that I could use the Blood Counter on her to grow a second Mature and those things are too nice to not to put on the table if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcalla Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 Always activate your desperate merc first and put him in defensive stance, that way when you attack him he gets 3 cards to pick the lowest from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marful Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I would do what Rathnard and Tiaden said. The Black Blood Shaman and Nekima fill the similar roles and Nekima makes the growing almost guaranteed. Also, desperate mercs are great fodder for blood counters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted November 22, 2012 Report Share Posted November 22, 2012 I support the use of Waldegeist with Lilith...they really stand out as tough minions compared to most Neverborns. They also fit very much with her theme, which for some it might be a good reason to use them. If you pick Nekima, however, Waldegeist compete with Young Nephilims, who can be more interesting due to auto-flay. If i was going for her Avatar, i'd use Lilith, two Waldegeist (12), three Terror Tots (9), Mature (10), Avatar (2) and have 6 SS. My Nekima+Lilith list was: Lilith, Nekima (13), three Rocket Tots (9), Two Young Nephilims (12), 5 SS. That said, nowadays i don't use Nekima and Lilith in the same list, due to fluff considerations (i'm like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgbsamurai Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 I can't speak much to the Avatar as I've never used her. But I would drop the Black Blood Shaman and hire a Young or a Waldegeist. Depending on the Strategies and Schemes I wouldn't be so fast to try to grow the Tots. They are some of the best objective grabbers in the game and with Nekima have the potential for 15" of movement with a single casting of Sprint. I'd also drop the Cherub and hire Primordial Magic. The ability to draw 8 and discard down to 7 cards every turn is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4ngo Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I can't speak much to the Avatar as I've never used her. But I would drop the Black Blood Shaman and hire a Young or a Waldegeist. Depending on the Strategies and Schemes I wouldn't be so fast to try to grow the Tots. They are some of the best objective grabbers in the game and with Nekima have the potential for 15" of movement with a single casting of Sprint. I'd also drop the Cherub and hire Primordial Magic. The ability to draw 8 and discard down to 7 cards every turn is awesome. They have fixad nekimas ability so that you only get the mask on the growspells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 They have fixad nekimas ability so that you only get the mask on the growspells. Not true, the errata is •ERRATA: - 'Nephilim Heart' Now reads "6. Select Wp, Ca, Df, or Cb. All friendly Terror Tots and Young Nephilim receive + to the selected statistic." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korrosion Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Not true, the errata is •ERRATA: - 'Nephilim Heart' Now reads "6. Select Wp, Ca, Df, or Cb. All friendly Terror Tots and Young Nephilim receive + to the selected statistic." 4 Young + Nekima giving out masks to Cb makes for one heck of a round with free flay's for everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T4ngo Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Not true, the errata is •ERRATA: - 'Nephilim Heart' Now reads "6. Select Wp, Ca, Df, or Cb. All friendly Terror Tots and Young Nephilim receive + to the selected statistic." My bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcalla Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 I prefer the Primordial Magic to the Cherub as well. Extra control cards are always good. I have been running the arcane effigy along with the Cherub lately though. And you can always drop the cherub and go avatar form and you still keep your AR after manifestation. I don't use Nekima in games under 45 points, she's too spendy for her current rules/fragility in smaller point games. That may change when she gets "re-worked". I prefer the Black Blood Shaman for the grow portion and other support abilities (like giving a model fast). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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