edonil Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Had this come up in a game yesterday, wanted to see how this is supposed to interact. Ototo's Brace says that he cannot be moved by enemy talent's or spells. Does this include the ability for Obey to make him charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ozz Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Obey is not a forced move, it is a 1 action that the model its self takes, so my guess would be that he can be forced to walk/charge through obey, but it is just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dgraz Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 That's a tough one....it seems that the intent is to not allow him to be moved at all....but if they wanted to make him immune to Obey then he would have gotten Intractable (I believe that that's the ability - can't be controlled). Obeying would be an enemy moving him because the enemy controls the move. There are plenty of abilities that just cause movement....Taelor's Hammerstrike....Misaki's Downburst...so I could see it being intended just for that stuff. May need RM clarification here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 NeuroFire Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 if they wanted to make him immune to Obey then he would have gotten Intractable (I believe that that's the ability - can't be controlled). Obeying would be an enemy moving him because the enemy controls the move. Intractable is the can't be buried one. Duty is essentially the can't be Obeyed one, because it says the model's Controller cannot be changed. Then there's Immovable, which prevents Pushes or movement that doesn't come from a friendly Master. Brace is something Ototo has to do as an action, if I remember correctly, it's not always on. Anyway, if it says he can't be moved by an enemy's talents or spells, that's exactly what it means. Obey is a spell, so he can't be moved by an enemy's Obey. He could probably still be Obeyed to perform a strike action, but not a walk or charge action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dgraz Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 @Neurofire - Duty was the one I was thinking of. You're right about Brace being an action he has to do. I think you're take on Brace is the correct one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Subötai Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Obey would work. Once he is fails to resist, he becomes friendly to the caster of Obey, then the action occurs, then he goes back to his original loyalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dgraz Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Obey would work. Once he is fails to resist, he becomes friendly to the caster of Obey, then the action occurs, then he goes back to his original loyalties. That's not true. Controlled models become Neutral. They are friendly to no one except themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 EnternalVoid Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 That's not true. Controlled models become Neutral. They are friendly to no one except themselves. Where in the rules does it say that? Page 122 of the small rule book is says; A Model is friendly when: -Its under that Crew's Control -It was hired by a Crew and is currently under that Crew's control. -It was brought into play by a friendly model and is currently under that Crew's control. The only thing that I can think of that is Neutral is Mindless Zombies, but that is actually a Talent thus they are not actually literally 'Neutral' per say as much as they are not part of either crew thus enemies of both. The game has no Neutral, just Friendly and Enemy. Obey fulfills the first one as the model, for only that one action, is under your crew's control. Unless they put something up on the Errata or FAQ to change this but taking a glance through I did not see anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 That's not true. Controlled models become Neutral. They are friendly to no one except themselves. Yeah, that is not at all correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dgraz Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 It's been ruled by RMs in the past. I did a search for it but I'm at work and I don't have time to go through everything. The quickest thing I could find was a blurb from Nilus discussing Sue and Duty that backs me up...... Right, I missed your question. When a model is obey'd is technically neutral. Not friendly, not an enemy model. That has been ruled before. Thus Duty protects models from Obey. IE you can't obey a model with Duty. Which is one of the reasons why Sue is a great model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 It has been ruled, several times, that Obeyed models are friendly to the crew doing the Obeying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dgraz Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 It has been ruled, several times, that Obeyed models are friendly to the crew doing the Obeying... and several times that they are neutral.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 EnternalVoid Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Well after taking a long hard look with the search, which as we all know not the best search engine, I have not been able to find anything that said they were neutral. I have seen several posts were other people, henchmen and normal posters, have said they are friendly, but not found one ruled by any RMs. So I have not seen any RM ruling one way or another Nor could I find the original thread for Nilus's post that you pulled up, and when I click on the little thing that pulls you to it I don't have access. This makes me think it was on the Henchmen board so no access. Though based on what I can find, alot more people believe that you are friendly when under the affects of Obey. I am also inclined to believe that as well as the Rule book backs this up until I see a ruling from the RM or an errata. Someone else might have better luck finding the posts in question then me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Therril_83 Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 "it has been ruled in the past" is an invalid argument since the introduction of the erratas and FAQs on malifaux.com. You can (and probably should) stretch it to include Rattys stickied thread aswell, but I do hope they don't take too long between each sweep of clearing that thread and putting that info into the documents. Feels to me like that should be a ruitine duty the first/last of every month, but I ofc don't know what goes on behind the scenes. Bottom line: If it's not in the documents (or Rattys thread), it's not a valid ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 i_was_like_you Posted September 25, 2012 Report Share Posted September 25, 2012 Bottom line: If it's not in the documents (or Rattys thread), it's not a valid ruling. Until it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 edonil Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Bump. Still hoping for a ruling to resolve this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Bump. Still hoping for a ruling to resolve this issue. You don't need one, and likely won't get one. Page 122 of the small rule book says; A Model is friendly when: -Its under that Crew's Control -It was hired by a Crew and is currently under that Crew's control. -It was brought into play by a friendly model and is currently under that Crew's control. An obeyed model is friendly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 psychocamel Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yeah it's pretty cut and dry in the book, and that's what you go by unless there's a definitive ruling otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 edonil Posted October 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 Fair enough, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Golden Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Only during the action itself does it state that its friendly. In some cases like Avt. Ramos' Override spell, I could easily understand a model being neutral until that action is taken. It would create some ridiculous shenanigans otherwise. Side Note: Isn't there a rule that states that an obeyed model cannot take actions that would cause it to be sacrificed(Like dance apart)? And if so, can someone remind me where it states that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 dgraz Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Side Note: Isn't there a rule that states that an obeyed model cannot take actions that would cause it to be sacrificed(Like dance apart)? And if so, can someone remind me where it states that. Right in the description of Obey itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 gonzo917 Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 So from what everyone says. The general consensus is that Ototo's Brace does not protect against movement actions resulting from an Enemy Obey spell because it turns him "friendly" and Brace only protects against Enemy spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Ausplosions Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 So from what everyone says. The general consensus is that Ototo's Brace does not protect against movement actions resulting from an Enemy Obey spell because it turns him "friendly" and Brace only protects against Enemy spells. Yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0 Therril_83 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 It really has nothing to do with who's side he's friendly to. If you obey him, he himself is using the action that moves him. And don't stare yourself blind on the word "spell" either, because Brace is not that specific. It's both Talents and Spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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edonil
Had this come up in a game yesterday, wanted to see how this is supposed to interact. Ototo's Brace says that he cannot be moved by enemy talent's or spells. Does this include the ability for Obey to make him charge?
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