Pariah and non-Outcast factions

[LouisXIV]

Hello!

The rules for both the Dead Heat campaign and any Gaining Ground events that specify Single Faction require participating players to select one single faction and follow "normal restrictions" for hiring crews. Assume, for my question's sake, that the faction selected is anything except Outcasts. These normal restrictions allow one to take one of 6 masters - one of the 4 from the chosen faction, Leveticus, or the Viktorias.

My confusion occurs where the normal restrictions interact with Pariah. Normal restrictions allow 0-2 mercenary models. Pariah, however, allows "Constructs, Undead, and Souless models... from any faction without additional cost."

So, in order to field Leveticus as a Guild/Resurrectionist/Arcanist master, for the practical purposes of organized play, do I need to forgo Steampunk Abominations, as they lack the Mercenary subtype and are not from his new parent faction? If I can take SPAs, must I pay the additional cost because they are Outcast models in another faction? Or, do the Constructs/Undead from the new faction incur the additional cost? Or, do I get to take SPAs, Ashes and Dust, and any Undead or Constructs from the parent faction a the printed cost, with no additional penalty?

If the answer is obvious, I apologize for my confusion. If this has already been answered elsewhere, it's not readily available through either this forum's search engine or a generic google search, so I'm doing a favor by asking again - no need to flip out because "some noob can't find the search button."

Thanks!

[Marcalla]

As far as I'm aware, you can't declare a faction other than Outcasts and take Leveticus or the Victoria's in a scrap. The 0-2 merc rule only applies to merc minions the master you choose must be from your chosen faction.

In a Brawl you could have other factions take them as a second master and when that happens you follow the normal restrictions from both masters. So in a brawl if you hire Levi you are stuck with his hiring restrictions being constructs, souless, and undead from any faction, but you don't pay extra for them.

When in doubt try Ratty's crew creator.

RM pg 71 under "Leaders" section. first bullet point.

In a Scrap, the player must choose one Master or a Henchman belonging to the chosen faction...

(bolded by me)

Edited June 18, 2012 by Marcalla

[Omenbringer]

As far as I'm aware, you can't declare a faction other than Outcasts and take Leveticus or the Victoria's in a scrap.

This is correct, however

In a Brawl you could have other factions take them as a second master and when that happens you follow the normal restrictions from both masters. So in a brawl if you hire Levi you are stuck with his hiring restrictions being constructs, souless, and undead from any faction, but you don't pay extra for them.

Also remember that Levi's restriction will apply to that other Master as well so the possible parings are very limited (basically C. Hoffman and Ramos).

[LouisXIV]

Page 96 explicitly says masters from the chosen faction OR masters with the mercenary characteristic. Which is why I said "These normal restrictions allow one to take one of 6 masters - one of the 4 from the chosen faction, Leveticus, or the Viktorias." because both of those masters have that mercenary descriptor - Som'er, Hamelin, and Ophelia don't. Von Schill has it as well.

I'm not asking about Brawls. If you're aware of the wording of Pariah in relation to Brawls, you can see the intent behind this question - it makes a LOT more sense to branch out to Arcanists or Guild, because none of the Outcast (Or Resser/Neverborn) masters can co-operate with Pariah, and few if any other Outcast models are desirable to take, whereas Hoffman and Ramos share a lot of the same crew, and can in turn share it with another Guild/Arcanist master, especially when you're restricted to the SS cost +20 SS worth of models pool. The rules do allow him to be part of another faction, as Mercenary masters are specifically allowed, but it'd be annoying to give up his starting SPA, especially if you're already committing to only Guild or only Arcanist constructs.

The crew creator is great I do appreciate it, but it's not authoritative. Page 71 is just stuff on triggers, so I assume Page 71 of the Rules Manual corresponds to page 96, which is Encounters, bullet point 5, Hire Crews.

[Ausplosions]

No wonder you're having trouble.

You are reading the old, out of print and defunct large "Red" book.

You need to get the current small "Rules Manual" in order to play. The rules you are referencing don't actually exist any more.

You CANNOT Hire 2 masters in a scrap.

Go and get yourself a Rules Manual.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Ausplosions

[Cunning]

If you take Leveticus in a scrap you are using Outcasts. There is not choice in this. In brawls Levi can be hired into a Guild crew if Hoffman is the other Master or an Arcanist crew if Ramos is the Other master.

[Ausplosions]

If you take Leveticus in a scrap you are using Outcasts. There is not choice in this. In brawls Levi can be hired into a Guild crew if Hoffman is the other Master or an Arcanist crew if Ramos is the Other master.

I think everyone has missed the fact that he is using the old rulebook.

[Marcalla]

To quote the mythbusters... Well, there's your problem right there.

If you're referencing Book 1 (the big book of outdated rules) then it explains some of your confusion.

As was mentioned above this was clarified/changed with the smaller Rules Manual.

As to the crew creater, it is not imperfect but it is 99.9999...% correct. And when it isn't just drop Ratty a note and he'll fix it (assuming it needs to be fixed that is) Just one of the reasons I like this game and the community surrounding it.

[nilus]

I don't think Leveticus is a Mercenary either.

Remember Outcast != Mercenary

[Kadeton]

I don't think Leviticus is a Mercenary either.

He definitely is, though I have no idea why.

[Cunning]

He definitely is, though I have no idea why.

If he wasn't a merc, Hoffman and Ramos couldn't hire him into their crews. He'd only be able to hire them into his.

[LouisXIV]

To quote the mythbusters... Well, there's your problem right there.

If you're referencing Book 1 (the big book of outdated rules) then it explains some of your confusion.

As was mentioned above this was clarified/changed with the smaller Rules Manual.

As to the crew creater, it is not imperfect but it is 99.9999...% correct. And when it isn't just drop Ratty a note and he'll fix it (assuming it needs to be fixed that is) Just one of the reasons I like this game and the community surrounding it.

Not the answer I want to hear, but the only correct one. Ausplosions, thank you too, but you are technically asking I buy the same book twice - no need to SHOUT or make demands, I've been corrected, thank you.

So I have to buy a 4th rulebook, and I just got a starter box and Desolation Engine for a faction I have zero interest in, outside that one master. Lovely. I guess that's how the cards fall; as I have to declare Outcasts before knowing anything except the size of the encounter if I want to play Leveticus. I guess I can try to sell this; the money I get back should cover the cost of the new Rules Manual. I wonder what else is changed? I have v2 stat cards, but all 3 big rulebooks.

---

I'm still not sure why people are talking about 2 masters and brawls; I was crystal clear there. You can look at the stat cards at Malifaux.com, the Downloads link is right above Ratty's awesome crew creator, which has been invaluable and works perfectly AFAIK. There are both masters and minions with the Mercenary descriptor, even if you can no longer take Mercenary masters in otherwise mono-Arcanist/Guild/Resser/Neverborn lists.

A mod can close this, thank you again, very much, Marcalla and Ausplosions.

[Ratty]

Levi is a Merc. But can only be hired as one if he's the second Master in the Brawl. Note his Pariah rule is still in effect so he can't be in a crew with a Living Master.. Only Construct, Soulless and Undead.. which really just leaves you with C.Hoffman, Ramos and Hamelin.

[LouisXIV]

I'm not asking about Brawls.

Thanks; I was trying to add him and his starter box onto most of my C.Hoffman crew without having to start an Outcasts collection based on a redacted sentence in an outmoded rulebook that I was unaware had been changed when I purchased more figures - the question was 100% answered. Thank you for the crew creator and scrap/corpse tokens.

[Ratty]

Note: the new Rules Manual is freely available for viewing, you can download it from the Malifaux Downloads page.

On the issue of having Levi and C.Hoffman, it's not that bad, in most friendly games both players play the Master they feel like playing and the nice thing is both models can use a very similar minion pool but have very different play styles.

[LoboStele]

Yeah, honestly, having Leveticus doesn't really mean you need to buy a lot of other Outcast models. Levi doesn't actually work with any of the other Outcast Masters at all, and he overlaps a good deal with Hoffman. So it's not a bad pairing overall. If I were you, I'd give him a chance first, rather than just getting rid of him. He's one of my favorite Masters to play.

[Cunning]

I had Leveticus for ages before buying any other outcast Masters and is probably my favourite master after Lilith.

Dont get rid of him just because you dont like any other outcast Masters.

He's ace.

[Ausplosions]

Absolutely.

I bought Leveticus because he is the ONLY Outcast master I like.

He doen't really synergise with the rest of the outcast faction at all, more so with the Resserectionists and Guild/Arcanist constructs.

Give him a chance. He is difficult but enormously enjoyable to play.

[Adanedhel]

I agree, also remember that C. Hoffman is the only nonLeveticus master that can hire more then 1 rider (Pale and Mechanical), Levi loves flashlights, and the Warden and Peacekeeper can be quite valuable additions to a construct based Hamelin crew.

For Levi you need from Outcasts: 2 Waifs, 1 Canine Remain (technically resser), Dessolation Engine, 4 Steam Punks, and maybe Alyce and the Ashes and Dust, and only Ashes, 1 dog and Alyce will really be hired in your crew, so minus the dog, no one forces you to pay for a single Outcast minion SScost .

And really, Leveticus is fantastic to play with

(My main faction is Outcasts, purely because of Leveticus, though I kinda like Hames and Som'er, without Levi I'd prefer Neverborn thanks to dora ^^)