Few questions/clarifications

[Bloodedsoul]

Been playing a fellow who likes to run Zoridia allot, and have a question about her.

Bayou two step (I think it's called), can she use that when casting a spell? I mean say for seeing if it casts, she flips the red joker, can she then burn a soulstone, and use that ability to use the red joker again?

Also I know normally a model can only use 1 (0) action per turn, but some models can perform 2, can this be the same action? Silurids, can they use leap twice? We've been playing it like that can't, but after reading pull my finger on the doppleganger saying she could perform 2 healing flips a turn, it now has me wondering if we've been doing that wrong.

[Mike3838]

+1 Instinctual lets you use 2 *different* (0) actions in your turn.

+1 Shapeless lets you use 2 (0) actions, which can be the same one twice.

As for Zoraida, she can only take a card from the discard pile, but the cards involved in a duel or damage are only added to the discard pile *after* you resolve the action. Effectively you have a third pile of "active" cards used in your current action, and you transfer this pile to the discard pile when the action is completed.

Hope that was clear!

Mike

[Bloodedsoul]

Ah that explains so much, thank you! We usually just set cards ontop the discard pile as we flip them, I'll have to break that habbit of mine.

[baskinders]

+1 Instinctual lets you use 2 *different* (0) actions in your turn.

+1 Shapeless lets you use 2 (0) actions, which can be the same one twice.

Wow, never paid attention to the "different" word in there.

So does this mean the Marcus can not do Wild Heart twice to get different effects because it is the "same" action but just giving a different effect?

And how bout a spell that you attempt and fail, can you have a second crack at it or is that the same action as well?

[Marcalla]

Since Markus has +1 Instinctual he can only cast wild heart once per activation. However wild heart grants one effect on successfull casting + an additional effect per tome in the casting total (and it has one built in) so for casting it you get to pick 2 effects if you cheat/flip a book you get 3 effects and so on. In a scrap you could get 4 effects and in a brawl you could get 5.

[ArcticPangolin]

Following on from this question, as Instinctual lets you use 2 (0) actions, does this only cover actions, or all talents?

For example, the Black Blood Shaman has the talents Instinctual, 3 (0) actions, and 2 (0) spells. Would the wording of Instinctual mean that it could :

a) use up to 2 different (0) actions OR 1 (0) spell

use any mix of 2 different (0) talents?

[Twisted Metal]

If it has a (0) for the ap cost you cannot use it more than once with instinctual. It does not matter if it is a spell, action, strike, ect... One and Done.

[ArcticPangolin]

If it has a (0) for the ap cost you cannot use it more than once with instinctual. It does not matter if it is a spell, action, strike, ect... One and Done.

Roger that. But I am asking about the breakdown of a model's talents. Instinctual allows the use of 2 different (0) actions. I seek clarification if the wording means actions, as in talents from the actions section of a model's card, or 2 different (0) talents, including (0) spells.

Also, to be clear, this is not for petty rules lawyering, rather ensuring that I have the rules straight in my head if they come up. I dislike knowing that a game was won or lost with misinterpreted rules. I do suspect that it is any 2 different (0) talents the model possesses.

Edit:

I should've read p.32 a little better. Spells are in bold too, so would count towards Instinctual actions. Sorry for wasting your time.

Edited July 9, 2012 by ArcticPangolin
Stumbled upon answer

[Keltheos]

Casting a Spell is a (*) Action where * is the number of AP indicated by the specific Spell.

So a (0) Spell is a (0) Cast Action that casts spell X.

People miss that all the time. They think each Spell is an individual Action.

"I'm taking the Leap (Spell) Action." No, it's "I'm taking a (0) Cast Action to cast the Leap Spell."

[Morgan Vening]

Casting a Spell is a (*) Action where * is the number of AP indicated by the specific Spell.

So a (0) Spell is a (0) Cast Action that casts spell X.

People miss that all the time. They think each Spell is an individual Action.

"I'm taking the Leap (Spell) Action." No, it's "I'm taking a (0) Cast Action to cast the Leap Spell."

Hmm... OK. So just to be clear then, Marcus can't cast Feral AND Wild Heart in the same turn due to Instinctual, because both are (0) Cast Actions, and therefore considered the same Action, with different results?

Morgan Vening

[DeusInnomen]

Hmm... OK. So just to be clear then, Marcus can't cast Feral AND Wild Heart in the same turn due to Instinctual, because both are (0) Cast Actions, and therefore considered the same Action, with different results?

Morgan Vening

Close. Yes you can, because they are different (0) actions. You can't cast the same (0) spell twice, nor can you use the same (0) action twice, but you can cast two different (0) spells, two different (0) actions OR a (0) action and a (0) spell.

Does that help?

[Morgan Vening]

Close. Yes you can, because they are different (0) actions. You can't cast the same (0) spell twice, nor can you use the same (0) action twice, but you can cast two different (0) spells, two different (0) actions OR a (0) action and a (0) spell.

Does that help?

Not really. That's how I thought it worked (any two different spells and/or actions), but Keltheos's response seems to contradict that.

(+1) Instinctual: This model may perform 2 different (0) Actions during his activation.

Casting a Spell is a (*) Action where * is the number of AP indicated by the specific Spell.

So a (0) Spell is a (0) Cast Action that casts spell X.

People miss that all the time. They think each Spell is an individual Action.

"I'm taking the Leap (Spell) Action." No, it's "I'm taking a (0) Cast Action to cast the Leap Spell."

The action taken when casting a spell, according to Keltheos, is a (*) Cast Action. If it's a (0) spell, it's a (0) Cast Action. According to Instinctual, you must perform DIFFERENT (0) Actions. Therefore, my reading of the clarification, is that you can't do two (0) Cast Actions, even if they have differing effects. If spells WERE individual actions, this wouldn't be an issue, but that's precisely what Keltheos said they weren't.

Morgan Vening

[Lungboy]

As a related question (and a free bump to get a clarification on Morgan's question: A spell with limited use (Obey etc) doesn't waste the use on a failed attempt, so if you try to use a (0) like Leap, but fail the cast, can an Instinctual model try the same (0) again, as it hasn't successfully cast it?