mythicFOX Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) Hello Colette players! Our favourite showgirl has a more or less standard build I see all the time; Arcanists Crew - 35 - Scrap Colette Du Bois -- 7 Pool 1 Mechanical Dove [2ss] Cassandra, Magician's Apprentice [9ss]Performer & Mannequin [6ss]Coryphée [7ss]Coryphée [7ss] What I'm interested in is players builds that aren't the above. What's your other build and when do you use it? - James Edited April 16, 2012 by mythicFOX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) I am not experienced with Kaeris yet, but it seems to me that including Kaeris makes it a Kaeris crew with Colette support. Colette will simply be there to provide SS to power the Kaeris flame machine, and to make Doves should the Fire Gamin run out. I have played a couple of games swapping out the Duet for Killjoy. This works well where you have to hold ground against an aggressive opponent. The list was Colette, Cassandra, Performer & Mannequin and Killjoy. Keeping Doves near Killjoy was essential, as he would hit one of them with his Melee Expert to get his (0) Eat Your Fill every time he Activated, letting him tank for a long time while the Showgirls did their VP dance around the table. In addition, I used Doves as a kind of Sooey to get him to Charge where I wanted. Siren Call from the Performer was also handy to pull him out of melee if I didn't think he would survive until he could heal up. I am not saying that this crew was better than the same crew with the Duet in it, but I did enjoy it as a change of pace from the usual Colette mono-build. Edited April 16, 2012 by Sholto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelle341 Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I love running Kearis with Colette I like running Colette and a performer and then throwing in kearis and some fire gamin not a sound list but its fun when your looking for something differant and i love seeing people crap when they see both Colette and Kearis charging at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Not that mine is much different but I prefer 2 doves and 5ss. I like it better than the 1 dove list do too people "thinking" I have less stones than they do. At the end of turn one I will generally have 7ss unless I draw a god hand and can only pitch 2 cards for one ss. I also like that in the start of the game I have 8 activations then so I can see what/where my opponent is going/doing so I can best figure how to interphere with their plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ebonstar Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 For me I just want to run more builds without the Duet. The Duet is really strong and versatile, and I think we can come up with builds that could be challenging and/or interesting to play. I like Kaeris with the list, she brings some heavy lifting at the cost of speed, and giving her a rich supply of soulstones is always a good thing. An M&SU build also sounds interesting. But there's only so much you can do with 14ss. Still want to try out a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Jack* Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 I'm planning on trying Colette, Kaeris, 2 fire gamin, iggy, gunsmith 2 desp mercs or some variation thereof, basically because colette can make some stones for kaeris to use, and to let kaeris use models that arent M&SU assets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Similar to others in the thread, I run a lot of showgirls. Here is what I have run, and what I plan to put on the table in the future: Arcanists Crew - 30 - Scrap Colette Du Bois -- 6 Pool Cassandra, Magician's Apprentice [9ss] Performer & Mannequin [6ss] Performer & Mannequin [6ss] Performer & Mannequin [6ss] and at 35: Arcanists Crew - 35 - Scrap Colette Du Bois -- 6 Pool Angelica, Mistress of Ceremonies [5ss] Cassandra, Magician's Apprentice [9ss] Performer & Mannequin [6ss] Performer & Mannequin [6ss] Performer & Mannequin [6ss] Can you tell how well Coryphee work for me? With that said, I summon doves during the game instead of taking them straight out. I have used the Coryphee, but am not in love with her (them). I find I do far better in putting 2 more Performer/Mannequin pairs on the table vs the Coryphee. I have not had a chance to play around with Angelica yet, but I plan to try her in my next couple games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted April 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 Yeah the more I look at Angelica the more I want to drop her into the build, she looks to bring a lot of neat tricks. I'm also not overly sold on Coryphee, 14ss for one activation with average damage output looks a little rough to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nix Posted April 17, 2012 Report Share Posted April 17, 2012 @Mythicfox - you should try 2 LSPA's or 2 SS Miners in a list with Colette, I hear you love those models. *grin* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 I tried this tonight: Colette - 5 pool Cassie Perf & Mann Perf & Mann Angelica Dove Basically I tried to Turtle up witin the bubble of WP bonus and then shot out attacks and pulled them back to safety. It sorta worked. Angie didn't really do anything much. I think it's a lot like the old Sisters of Battle builds. You needed to be at fairly close range to be effective. @Nix- I'd love to hear more about that crew when you get back from Adepticon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgraz Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 The Duet is brutal and no mistake. However, any one who has faced them once learns to make them priority #1 and once they're gone, you're in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybarite Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 (edited) i'm thinking something like this might work. Haven't tried it but the idea is that Kaeris gets into cover in an important position to burn the enemy and control the board with help from the student, while the showgirls form a mobile hit and run strike team. Colette can churn out soulstones to Kaeris and Cassandra. The Desperate merc could perhaps be exchanged for something else. Cassandra should be pretty fun with the student's fast buff as well. What do you think? Arcanists Crew - 35 - Scrap Colette Du Bois -- 7 Pool 1 Mechanical Dove [2ss] Kaeris [8ss] Student of Conflict [4ss] Cassandra, Magician's Apprentice [9ss] Performer & Mannequin [6ss] Desperate Mercenary [2ss] Edited April 18, 2012 by Sybarite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted April 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 @ Syberite - I've been thinking of something similar with 2 Doves and no DM. I do like the potential of the student giving showgirls fast @ Nix - I just want a solid significant model under 6ss I can take three of. :'( Spare parts my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sholto Posted April 18, 2012 Report Share Posted April 18, 2012 The Duet is brutal and no mistake. However, any one who has faced them once learns to make them priority #1 and once they're gone, you're in trouble. True, but getting rid of them is not easy. Generally speaking you can work out which of your opponent's crew members have the mobility and stats to be a threat to the Coryphee in the course of a single activation. If they have more than two then you're in serious trouble, but otherwise Colette's crew has the tools (Paralyse and Bury) to postpone one threat while focusing on killing the other, and the mobility to carry it off. I find the Coryphee rarely dies, even against opponents who hate it with a passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted April 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 I've been thinking about how we get the Union Miner into builds for quick objective grabbing. I'm toying with something like this; Arcanists Crew - 35 - Scrap Colette Du Bois -- 7 Pool 1 Mechanical Dove [2ss] Cassandra, Magician's Apprentice [9ss]Performer & Mannequin [6ss]Performer & Mannequin [6ss]Union Miner [4ss]Union Miner [4ss] This should give us some fast paced objective grabbing fun from the miners. Has anyone else thought of any ways to use these guys with the Showgirls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadai Posted April 19, 2012 Report Share Posted April 19, 2012 See, the problem with using Union Miners is while they have the surprise factor and such, they really aren't more effective as an objective grabber as the girls. There is just sooo much synergy when using the girls that they move around the board as fast as light. And worse for the miner, since the bury fix they've lost the ability to be serious assassins as well. Really if you want to get away from the girls you should include Johan and perhaps think about Joss in that list. But then you get away from what makes the Showgirls tick... you know, girls. Honestly, the Coryphee are an intricate part of the girls crew. They are lightning quick, and perfect for the hit-and-run squad tactics the girls favor. Without them, the girls slow down significantly. The problem is people have a tendency to think in Duet only. Like some others have commented in this thread, the Duet is a big target but it can be taken down. But with its speed an inability to be pinned down, there should be no reason you ever let it get into that position in the first place. And if you do, Colette is there to pull its bacon out of the fire with a swap. It doesn't have to stay together the entire game. I've split the Duet back into twin Coryphee so many times for objective grabbing and kiting/squad splitting tactics. Because you'll face one of two opponents. Those that are just going to leave it alone, or those that are going to throw everything at it to kill it. And when you dangle it in front of that more common second player, then pull the rug out with a switch and a split.... they get all excited because they think it is now really vulnerable. In reality, you're hoping the split their forces trying to chase the both, or, even better, they over commit to one side of the board or other. Either way, you win with more switch, splits, and Sword Dance pushes. It's just a real rules intensive model that in order to play really effectively you have to grasp not just the Duet rules, but the single Coryphee as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramoro Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 I know I'm very new to the game but I was thinking of using Johan in my Colette crew, using Disappearing Act and Illusionist to deliver him to where he's needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oathborne Posted April 21, 2012 Report Share Posted April 21, 2012 Arcanists Crew - 35 - Scrap Colette Du Bois -- 6 Pool Angelica, Mistress of Ceremonies [5ss]Cassandra, Magician's Apprentice [9ss]Gunsmith [6ss]Performer & Mannequin [6ss]Performer & Mannequin [6ss] I've had success with this. You can either add 1 dove to start or create them as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shut Up Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 well @mythicfox you know my views on this debate but here's my two cents anyway; in my opinion (certainly not the only valid one) the only truly nescessary model to take with collette is cassandra, at 9ss she is fairly unkillable with to attack and damage flips targetting her and the use soulstone ability courtosey of magicians apprentice, allthough she still goes down quick if you leave her somewhere silly and loose initiative next turn, her understudy ability lets her copy any (1) spell from a freindly showgirl within 12" (usualy form colette but a timely mirrors or even sirens lure if you have the mask can be game changing). a spell with magical blast damage (therefore made of win) and crazy movement (not as crazy as a coryphee admittedly but still awesome nonetheless). however the single reason to take her is for the 'grand finale' ability, nothing like grabbing victory from the jaws of defeat with a cheeky activation form a model with use soulstones and nimble (for killing/objective grabbing goodness). the coryphee/duet are realy nice models both from an aesthetic and a gameplay point of view and in most situations you cant go far wrong by putting them in your list... most of the time... as with anything and everything in malifaux the merits of the coryphee must be examined on a strategy/scheme basis. (i am assuming that ou take two, while a single coryphee can be awesome I never got it to work for me so I dont feel qualified to comment on theur effectiveness) in movement-y strategies with objective markers such as destroy evidence, treasure hunt and line in the sand they are amazing, they are (+1)fast and wk 9, with df 7 and :+fate to disengaging defence flips they can be the very devil to pin down. this is equaly valid for movement-y schemes such as sabotage, stake a claim and countering brekthough/hold out (when those schemes seem a likely choice for your opponent) in claim jump however they are not a sound invetment at all in my opinion, 14ss for one or two models at the end of the game, and while they can run interferance they lack the killing potential posessed by pretty much every other 10+ss model in the game. this lack of punch make sthem an unsound invesment in slaughter as well, while they will quite likely deny vps to your opponent by taking them you are pretty much committing to play for strategy VP denial and win on schemes, which isnt nescesarily fun for either player. same is true of kill based schemes such as eye for an eye or exterminate. I tend to find that in some games with certain matchup/strategy/scheme combos that taking a coryphee/duet is a brilliant idea, whereas in others the ss could probably be better spent on other stuff (did somebody say gunsmith!). i would certainly say the coryphee are a good investment for begginner colette players, they have good synergy with the crew and you can find a use for them in most situations but they arent nescesarily an auto include. they are great and if the models you are 'replacing' them with in your crew arent there for a particular reason/purpous then i would consider just going witht the coryphee, if in doubt they tend to be a relatively safe bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin1981 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Why is it that people always say they can't damage stuff? Is it because they have min 2 max 4 melee damage? I really fail to see this argument. They have the mobility to set up a turn prior to deliver all 3 ap at a target on your 1st ap melee strike in built positive (so you can reliably say you do 3 damage (their moderate)) give the enemy - to duels or take away immune to influence another 2-4 damage with a spell/melee next ap then finish off with a blinding flash cheating in severe for paraylized so their single target damage is around 8-10 wounds in a full activation of attacking outside of h2w 2, or models exceding 10 wounds(not many around), or master's spending ss for damage prevention they kill everything else in the game in one full attack activation. Is it just that people our blind to these things due to not having a 3/4/5(6) melee damage range really? The h2w 2+ models would generally be better by manne replacing as far as ap efficiency goes (spend 1ap 1 card in hand plus 2 ss instead of 5+ ap for attacks) most models that are over 10 wounds are generally manne'd as well, and the main thing with masters is that the duet mainly just darts in to put on a - in duel totals so the plethora of magicians duels (cassie, Colette) or breath fire is what brings down masters. People always argue the duets damage output sucks but when a full attack activation gives you 8-10 wounds and if the target is still alive paraylised with the duet being 7-11" away from them when done I really just don't see why people complain and moan about 2/3/4 melee with a + always built in and a 2/3slow/3paraylised spell or the 2w 2" aoe spell for if/when they get surrounded (lol at this happening unless you want it to happen). Edited April 26, 2012 by Odin1981 typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRC Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 The coryphees' damage sucks for two reasons. 1. A 14 point model should be doing much better than 8-10, check out what a steamborg or killjoy can do in a pre-setup full attack activation. 2. They can't afford to do that, if your opponent wins initiative, they'll probably kill the coryphees and you just lost the game. They need to dart in, hit and get out. That severely constrains their real-game output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy in Suit Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 check out what a steamborg or killjoy can do in a pre-setup full attack activation. That's the rub - Coryphee do the same damage without NEEDING to be set up. More options - easier to protect. When I see a steamborg I see a protege that's gonna die and give my 2 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRC Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 People always argue the duets damage output sucks but when a full attack activation gives you 8-10 wounds and if the target is still alive ... Yes, that's the rub. See point two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadai Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) Yes, that's the rub. See point two. Not sure if serious..... You do realize they get a free push on a hit with a trigger that is easy to get and/or set up right? Or the fact I can move in and attack the the cost of only 1 point? Let's see, my Duet is 10" away. (0) action to Sword Dance, 1 AP to move, oh look, your in melee range, free strike, strike again with my second AP, strike again with my fast AP... oh look, 4" push trigger. That's... hold on, a starting range of 10", 3 attacks, and I finish 5" away from you. You were saying something about not being able to do that?? EDIT: Actually now that I'm thinking about it, you can interrupt your move at any time to make a free strike then continue movement. So actually, start 10" away, sword dance, move and strike for 1 ap, strike for 1 ap, move (striking first) get trigger, push 4", continue moving 9" on fast ap. Laugh at the look on your opponents face as you start 10" away and end up with a full attack round and now 14" out. Edited April 26, 2012 by Shadai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted April 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 An output of 8-10 Dg/turn is not amazing for 14ss. Don't get me wrong the whole package is worth 14ss, just not based on the Dg output alone. All IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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