Foton Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm a long time Viks and Von Schill player, and I picked up Pandora to have a less bashy master. After figuring her out, and stomping around with her box, I'm wanting to figure out where to go next. Budget is not a concern. Flexibility is. I want to be at a competitive level with Pandora before GenCon and need to know what the more experienced players think. I've got a few Ideas. Baby Kade is a must. He's awesome and has 2 kills to luring off enemy models off of ledges. (Both 6" high. Same game. Kinda felt bad about it.) So what can you suggest? What has good synergy with the insatiable Pandora? The tactica was a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr_83 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Insisdious Madnesses are a must, even 1 will put the hurt on the enemy and make them change strats around it. Also Doppelganger, something about 5 self-loathings that cause 2 Wds from emotional trauma (plus her on enemy initiative, and her less then savory tricks) are just awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foton Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I didn't even think about having doppleganger copy Self Loathing.. That is SICK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I didn't even think about having doppleganger copy Self Loathing.. That is SICK. Copy Unhealthy Relationship too, and then have sorrows in B2B with the DG using (0) mimic to also copy Emotional Trauma - nothing hurts more than your opponent losing 4 or 5 wounds every time pandora does incite or pacify Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarragon Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Copy Unhealthy Relationship too, and then have sorrows in B2B with the DG using (0) mimic to also copy Emotional Trauma - nothing hurts more than your opponent losing 4 or 5 wounds every time pandora does incite or pacify Everythings fun when you can kill an entire Gremlin crew in one activavtion. I've had relatively good success with the twins (but it's hard NOT to have success with them), Doppels and Madnesses are awesome as has been said. Stitched are also great, and Coppelius is as well, or so I've heard. Also, Iggy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr_83 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks MP... thats the kind of less then savory tricks i meant lol. I've yet to do it, as i like having friends :top: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I've yet to do it, as i like having friends :top: See, I think that's where I've been going wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96p Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Neverborn Crew - 35 - Scrap Pandora -- 8 Pool Arcane Effigy [4ss] Doppelganger [8ss] Lelu [7ss] Lilitu [7ss] Sorrow [3ss] Sorrow [3ss] or Neverborn Crew - 35 - Scrap Pandora -- 6 Pool Arcane Effigy [4ss] Doppelganger [8ss] Insidious Madness [4ss] Insidious Madness [4ss] Lelu [7ss] Lilitu [7ss] My 2 competetive Tournament List (without avatar, but avatar can be very good depending on your opponent and strategy) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 My horrible tournament List - Pandora 8ss Doppleganger 3x Sorrow Stitched Together Jackdaw That hurts a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike3838 Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Really wish people would stop pushing the 5x Emotional Trauma exploit (and the self-Dementia one too). It's broken on a level beyond almost anything else in the game and I genuinely think it should be cuddled into the ground. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 In a competitive environment however these combos should be abused. If you are in a tournament to win you should bring the nastiest list you can. It will also help the game in the long because Wyrd will get a chance to hear about it and the can decide if it is really something they want in the game. All games evolve once a larger group of play testers get their hands on them, and once the general public gets its hands on the rules the OP combos continue to be discovered. The more Wyrd becomes aware of the trend the better chance we have of them eventually changing it so it no longer exists in current form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micahwc Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 I think a student of conflict would be worth considering over the arcane effigy as it cost the same points and grants a general ap. Unless you plan on using the avatar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Student of conflict becomes crap and easy to kill once the crew out runs it. The arcane eff remains a solid minion on the table. Much much better imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foton Posted January 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Copy Unhealthy Relationship too, and then have sorrows in B2B with the DG using (0) mimic to also copy Emotional Trauma - nothing hurts more than your opponent losing 4 or 5 wounds every time pandora does incite or pacify Diamond in an ice storm. This makes me giddy beyond belief. I spend most of my turns pacifying crap anyways. I absolutely love this idea. I am getting the avatar. Some cool stuff here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guild Monkee Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Really wish people would stop pushing the 5x Emotional Trauma exploit (and the self-Dementia one too). It's broken on a level beyond almost anything else in the game and I genuinely think it should be cuddled into the ground. Absolutely agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr_83 Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Oh please, Pandora is far from the only 'broken' master out there... at least when she's dead, she stays that way, the same goes for her crew. And lets not forget, this game IS NOT about tabling the opponent, but working strategies and schemes. People who bitch about OP are often target blinded and turn the game into a $$$$$$$$ing contest. Pandora was my first Master, she has a massive learning curve, and I had no idea what she could do when I purchased her. So keep your complaints for another thread, this one's purpose is quite clear. Kthxbai :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 No the game is not about tabling the opponent, but being able to easily kill your opponent is an extremely powerful ability. A model which is extremely deadly often projects more real board control than a dedicated "control" model does. Purely objective grabbing forces often don't do well outside a very few specific situations. Add this to the fact that a goodly number of the schemes and strategies require either massive kill campaigns, or specific assassinations. If you bring a force that cannot kill things you often don't do well. I agree with Calmdown's sentiment that the best way to control a model is to kill it. No longer being on the table means it does nothing else for the rest of the game. The reason Malifaux is more interesting is because you have a very limited amount of actions to accomplish what you are attempting to do, and so when you attempt to kill things you must have a reason to kill your target. Attacking an enemy model simply to kill it will lose you games, attacking and killing with purpose will win you games. Pandora excels not only at "control" but her version also kills you while she basically says, "No, you can't play your crew the way YOU want. You'll play the way *I* want, and I'll kill you while you're doing it". So I agree that Pandora needs a rework, and at least a reduction of her SS Cache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr_83 Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 I stand by my sentiment that Pandora is not the hardest master to face, and once u know how to counter her (ie, denying a success at a critical point in the incite/pacify train), she is really quite fragile and takes a lot of finesse to use properly... at least against opponents that know her. Cuddling usually just leads to resentment. Why should I, who bought Pandora simply due to aesthetics, have to re-learn how to use her because some (yes, some) players cant combat her? I have yet to defeat Dreamer/LCB, yet I wouldnt dream of asking for the cuddlebat (or Hamelin for that matter) as their abilities reflect the the character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 The same argument can be made in reversal. Your argument only stands if you accept that all masters have an equal chance of victory against Pandora, which clearly isn't the case. I have started Pandora and I'm still among those who feel that Pandora should definitely be dialed back a good deal. Either that or all the lower powered masters need to be buffed up to her level. But anyway I've already gone through this argument earlier so I'll leave it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nachtnebel Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Not every master needs an equal chance to win against Pandora (or any other master) coz Malifaux is not balanced on a master vs. master level. No doubt, Pandora can be a pain in the ass, but that's also true for other masters. But on the other hand, no master really dominates the tournament scene, also some of them are more likely to appear in the top 5 rankings than others. Pandora is not overrepresented in the tournament scene, there are a lot masters that see more table time than her. In my book, the main issue with Pandora is, that it's really hard to deal with her if you are new to Malifaux and don't really know how the game is played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazrat Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 All masters have an equal chance of winning against any other master. You don't gain the advantage by the abilities of the models; it's by knowing the cards. I'm a Pandora player and have beaten her with a straight Nicodem box crew through skill and luck of the cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerGaeth Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 All masters have an equal chance of winning against any other master. Som'er and Hamelin would like to have a word with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 All masters have an equal chance of winning against any other master. This would be nice but is unfortunately not true. Like the post above says, Somer and Ophilia will almost never beat Hamelin, and Leveticus will never beat Dreamer. They're just 2 examples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 Really wish people would stop pushing the 5x Emotional Trauma exploit (and the self-Dementia one too). It's broken on a level beyond almost anything else in the game and I genuinely think it should be cuddled into the ground. Mike I don't think it's any more broken than other combos in the game, and I think people overstate how effective it is. Aiden was using it at masters in the game against me and a quick Mature Neph to the Dopplegangers head put a stop to it. It's powerful, but easy enough to unpick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbr_83 Posted January 22, 2012 Report Share Posted January 22, 2012 My point exactly, once again thanks to MP! Pandora's crew bleeds just like any other living crew. I get close to pulling my hair out going up against Nico, Somer et al. Yes Pandora can take out most minions in one (0) action if set up properly, but when they come back next round and she has limited access to healing, the whole thing falls apart easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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