Spam?

[Todd]

Despite the unlimited hiring restrictions on many minions, Spam is not something I see much in Malifaux. I guess I would consider real spam at least 8+ of the same model, does that seem about right?

While I don't really have an opinion about it (negeative or otherwise), I am used to it as a list building tool/strategy, it being quite common in the current edition of an older more popular british based gothic sci-fi miniature game that I sometimes play .

I was curious as to why it doesn't crop up much in Malifaux? Is versatility in this game so valuable that it just doesn't work? Did Wyrd take care to put a hiring cap on any models that may have circumvented this? Has anyone actually had any luck with it? Anyone tried Lucius and 13 Guild Hounds? How about Marcus and 17 Raptors?

Hamelin and a lot of rats is not the kind of spam I'm thinking of (it is completely in theme, and how he's supposed to play). If you bring him up, please make it constructive, and not just a rant.

[LastDinosaur]

It's hard to spam in a game where so many of the choices are unique or limited.. Also if 8+ is what it takes for spamming then it's still only possible with 2~4pters.. (And actually utterly impossible in 40k for anyone but infantry based IG which is not common..)..

That said I certainly think one of the Guild ladies with 8xDeath Marshalls or 8x Witchlings would be viable, albeit mixing them would still be adviceable..

Not sure about the Guild Hounds, but I think the Raptors would lack impact..

[Todd]

Ok, what would most people consider to be spam in Malifaux?

I sort of agree about the Raptors, but in a game where movement and numbers often trumps offence and a game can be won having taken 100% casualties, I'm not so sure. I think I might proxy it for fun.

By the way, I didn't mean 8+ as spam for 40k. More like maxed out slots of all the same unit/transport (FA=3x same unit, Troops=6x same unit in the same transport, etc).

[nachtnebel]

For me, a soon as you use more entities of an unlimited model as it has different designs, it's spam.

[Tarragon]

I think anything beyond 4 or 5 is really pushing into spam territory by Malifaux standards.

And I think spam isn't as prevalent in Malifaux as in other game systems, because of the lack of options. In 40k, for example, you take one unit that's pretty much good at anything, and multiply it by 6. In Malifaux, there isn't one single guy that's good at everything (comparatively), so you have to take more different specialist models to make up for that.

This also makes the game somewhat more tactical than 40k, as it's much harder to compensate for your only specialist unit if you lose it, than one of an all-purpose unit.

[Sliver Chocobo]

The unread dogs, that you kill to make other types of undead and December Vikings

[Dumb Luck]

Going against the grain somewhat, I find myself spamming if not to a small degree. I think this is often with cheap models in order to win the activation war. By being able to out activate someone, you can force the other guy's hand to a degree.

My Gremlin lists frequently feature seven to eight basic Gremlins for this aim. Also because for their points value, they're pure gold.

Back in Book One, I did tend to run Somer and a horde of basic guys.

[micahwc]

I've run Lilith with 5 young nephilim before without using a grow list. It was actually quite effective.

I have also used 4 young and 1 mature nephilim and variations on this list.

And I admit that I am gulty of owning two pairs of Lelu and Lilitu.

[Stern]

I used to play Kaeris with 6 Gunsmiths!

that is quite spammy I thought

[Fading Memory]

17 Raptors would theoretically do well. They must activate simultaneously when bunched up. They can charge ignoring line of sight, and have crazy movement. With that many raptors, that's a lot of attacks and things will die. They have a Df 6 which means they will be able to stand up better than they first appear. When the dust settles you should have more models standing then your opponent with enough turns left to capture objectives.

[dsmiles]

Of course there's the obvious uses of Stuff Posing As Meat: Hamelin and his Rats, and The Dreamer and Alps (though not as much as the pre-cuddle Alp Bomb).

[Todd]

I used to play Kaeris with 6 Gunsmiths!

that is quite spammy I thought

Yeah, I thought about that myself. A friend has been using two against me lately, and I've been really impressed with them. I wondered how maxed out gunsmiths might play out. I imagine there'd be a limited amount of strats/schemes that list would work well with.

17 Raptors would theoretically do well. They must activate simultaneously when bunched up. They can charge ignoring line of sight, and have crazy movement. With that many raptors, that's a lot of attacks and things will die. They have a Df 6 which means they will be able to stand up better than they first appear. When the dust settles you should have more models standing then your opponent with enough turns left to capture objectives.

That's the plan. Also, with certain strat/scheme combos you might not even have to go on the offensive like that. I have a crap load of unbased WFB bats that I'm going to put on 40mms to proxy this (that is, if I have enough extra 40mm bases). I'll let you know how it goes.

For me, a soon as you use more entities of an unlimited model as it has different designs, it's spam.

Ha, so...anywhere between 3+ to 5+ depending on the model. That would certainly stop people from complaining about Hamelin. Poor guy has only got three different rats.

[i_was_like_you]

I've run the Vikies and six Ronin. As that's two packs of the same three sculpts, would you consider that to be spamming?

I've also ran Sonnia with Sam and six Witchling Stalkers. I didn't start out meaning to run her that way. I'd just bought the second pack of Stalkers in case I succeeded in using Violation of Magic to summon another one. Thanks to the Witchling Handler, I might try that again with her in Sam's place.

Several models with the same abilities can, in some cases, outweigh less models with a wider range of abilities. It usually allows me to out activate my opponent, and it ensures that I'm never missing any key model. In the case of the Vikies with the Ronin, I can always sack a Ronin to replace a Vikie. If I'm short on 'stones, I can sack a Ronin for the two stones needed to sack another one for the Vikie. If I haven't used my starting pool of 5 stones (for this list) and / or have sacked a Ronin that may have already been on death's door anyways, I can pay 5ss to replace a Ronin I've lost. Not quite the synergy of book 2 crews, but effective nonetheless.

[Wolfgar]

Seems to me that spamming wouldn't be as effective a tactic in Malifaux, although I suppose it varies from master to master. I think it's best to have a diverse crew that shores up each others weaknesses; you are rarely going to get a few models that are good enough in everything to be worth taking near exclusively. of course I feel strongly that every Showgirl model has her own role to play, so maybe Colette has left me biased.

[*Jack*]

Despite the unlimited hiring restrictions on many minions, Spam is not something I see much in Malifaux. I guess I would consider real spam at least 8+ of the same model, does that seem about right?

I was curious as to why it doesn't crop up much in Malifaux? Is versatility in this game so valuable that it just doesn't work?

Note, I have a fairly negative opinion on 40k, but read on if you dare...

I think it arises in the tactical limited-ness of 40k. It's a game of list building, not deep thought regarding strategies. So, by taking 3 or more of the same, undercosted, or over-efficient unit, you give yourself a MASSIVE advantage.

Malifaux works a bit differently, (aside from the fact its actually tactical) your choices on the field affect the game a lot more than what choices you picked. Also, imagine a choice thats severely undercosted, if canine remains were 1pt each... you could take twice as many of them. They're great, and I'd stock up on them, but you cant win a game with them alone. So yeah, take a bunch of them, but you'll need something else, like a belle or two, a convict gunslinger or something.

[micahwc]

17 Raptors would theoretically do well. They must activate simultaneously when bunched up. They can charge ignoring line of sight, and have crazy movement. With that many raptors, that's a lot of attacks and things will die. They have a Df 6 which means they will be able to stand up better than they first appear. When the dust settles you should have more models standing then your opponent with enough turns left to capture objectives.

They are also easy to wound and would be vulnerable to blasts and pulses. Sonnia, Hoffman, rasputina, and to a lesser extent pandora would all do really well against this.

[BlueStar86]

Note, I have a fairly negative opinion on 40k, but read on if you dare...

I think it arises in the tactical limited-ness of 40k. It's a game of list building, not deep thought regarding strategies. So, by taking 3 or more of the same, undercosted, or over-efficient unit, you give yourself a MASSIVE advantage.

Malifaux works a bit differently, (aside from the fact its actually tactical) your choices on the field affect the game a lot more than what choices you picked. Also, imagine a choice thats severely undercosted, if canine remains were 1pt each... you could take twice as many of them. They're great, and I'd stock up on them, but you cant win a game with them alone. So yeah, take a bunch of them, but you'll need something else, like a belle or two, a convict gunslinger or something.

40k isn't even about list-building, it's about gambling on which book is the most powerful at any given time. You pick the right book, you can pretty much select anything and win. No tactics, no building a list (outside of making sure you aren't over points), and then all you have to do is roll well.

40k also has a bizarre fascination with dudes in lumpy armor, so if you want the most powerful list, the odds are in your favor to pick the dudes in lumpy armor.

[EvilGinger]

Rezers "Spam" quite a bit I find other than that even with my liking big crews I dont see the need for more than two of any given model.

On the subject of Rezer spamming could we have a couple of alt packs for mindless zombies as three variants are not really enough if as an opponent of mine regularly does, you have 24+on the table. I belive he owns thirty off them.

[i_was_like_you]

On the subject of Rezer spamming could we have a couple of alt packs for mindless zombies as three variants are not really enough if as an opponent of mine regularly does, you have 24+on the table. I belive he owns thirty off them.

Or just have the TO lift the non-Wyrd product rule when it comes to these mobile Corpse Counters. Most miniature companies have several zombie variants. For even more bang for your buck, buy a bag of Twilight Creations Zombies.

[Toonook]

On the subject of ressers and spam I'm interested to see how mcmourning, 17 dogs and a chihuahua would go at 35ss, every time one of them falls another could send its corpse counter back to Doug, lots of 1 ap charging, great movement. I could see it working. Maybe Doug, Sebastian, 14 dogs and a chihuahua haha

[micahwc]

On the subject of ressers and spam I'm interested to see how mcmourning, 17 dogs and a chihuahua would go at 35ss, every time one of them falls another could send its corpse counter back to Doug, lots of 1 ap charging, great movement. I could see it working. Maybe Doug, Sebastian, 14 dogs and a chihuahua haha

I like this list a lot. It would be fun to play. Save up the counters and summon something nasty and three headed.

[Calmdown]

I often run 4 Night Terrors, that's the biggest multiple of anything that I use though.

Other than Hamelin's rats, the biggest amount of spam you're likely to see in a list that actually works is either Ronin in Viks, or Gunsmiths in something Arcanist. Cos they're all rounder models and spam works with them. Mostly in Malifaux though, spam = one dimensional and hence easily beatable list

[mythicFOX]

+1

You can see a lot of SPA's in Ramos, Gremlins in Som'er and Gaki in Kirai.

[Croaker]

I've used lots of Wicked Dolls in some Collodi and Zoraida crews.

I hired 3, but had Zoraida and Weaver Widow poping them out all game and teleporting them to Collodi. That's another 12 potential, plus the summons for any model that they kill.

But they were dropping like flies, so there were never more than about 5 of 6 on the table at once.

[nilus]

I used to play Kaeris with 6 Gunsmiths!

I think a SPAM list is less about the same model over and over and more about a broken or unblanaced model taken to much.

6 Gunsmiths is fun, but hardly broken. The same with 6 or 8 or 10 Gremlins.

I have found in Malifaux that even large lists with thing like Guild Hounds don't tend to get any real advantage. They are less broken and more just boring.