Avatar Pandora Tips

[fixerupperguy]

Has anyone played with APandora and can share some tips about her?

[JackRussel]

The only tip I have is not taking her, I honestly think she is much better in regular form. I can only think of using her avatar if you want to park her on an objective near the end of the game.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Best tips:

Buy the awesome model, paint it so that it becomes the most awesome looking mode there is, put it on your shelf and admire it, and never bring it to a game, ever.

Movement is king in Malifaux and a model that gives up any ability to move is crippled in deep ways.

Immobile was a great experiment and other models that might achieve it still could be interesting, but not on an alternate form of a Master who is noted for her movement shenanigans.

[magicpockets]

Claim jump - only reason I'd take it

[96p]

I love it !

Play her against Masters which normaly give you sleepless nights (Sonnia, Rasputina...) because she's much harder to kill.

Some Ideas for her:

1. bring your sorrows in position to claim your mission objective, manifest and take them all in one Turn !

2. run in the midst of your enemy, cast project emotions on them and manifest... terrifying 13 in 3" with anathema and a -wp is just devastating.

3. paralyzing enemys via your new trigger is just great, as is self destruction.

4. Take Insidious madness for the -wp

5. don't take doppelganger

6. to manifest, pick any enemy model that has not yet activated this turn (without the use soulstone ability) cast project emotions and dementia on it... tadaa you got yourself a manifest requirement.

7. every heal you get (candys sweets, SS, Lilithu) is doubled as you are allowed to take the same effect with candy too or the other way around

And for mobility... you get candy with a walk of 5 and a cast which pushes her 6" away from pandora (not directly away !)

Edited November 30, 2011 by 96p

[mistercactus]

About 2 days ago Nix told me about a game where Rasputina just put Ice pillars all around aPandora, blocking her LoS to everything. I thought it was pretty funny.

[NBmaster]

Not sure why that would be a bad thing for aPanda as she only has Pacify and self loathing (forgot name change) that have the word target both of which can be used with Candy's Her Eyes, which you dont even have to spend the 8ss to bring Candy. I played her in a avatar themed tourney 30ss ffac free avatar, I played dopp with sarrows and stitched, granted against a new dreamer player but it worked out great for me when the random force manifest happened.

[Rathnard]

Advice for APandy - don't use her? That's utterly crap advice guys - it's quitter talk!

APandy is not a swiss army knife, and she's not an auto-include for every game. What she is, is a specialised tool - great for certain scenarios but a terrible idea in others. So long as you keep that in mind, I feel that she's definitely worth including in crews.

I have to disagree with the assertion that mobility is king in Malifaux. In alot of strategies and schemes it's great, but it's less important (albiet still useful, I'll maintain) when you're required to converge on a certain point (Claim jump, treasure hunt) or simply kill opposing models. It's those kinds of scenario's that APandy is more useful for.

APandy is effectively a tougher, more killy version of her Master form with some a massive area denial throw in. Immobile is only an issue if your opponent can win the game without going near APandy. Therefore, the key to using APandy is to use her when your opponent has no choice but to get close. The best examples IMO would be strategies/schemes requiring the death of one of your models (just keep it near APandy), claim Jump, and even vs Treasure Hunt if you can manifest before they get clear of the centre with their treasure.

Even in strategies requiring mobility, I think she still has potential. You would just need to manifest her in the late game rather than as early as possible. In Reconnoiter for instance, manifesting APandy makes her Sorrows significant. So pulling her out in the late game will allow you take table quarters with the sorrows and potenially wipe out a few nearby enemy models. For Line in the Sand Pandora could single-handedly guard three, (maybe four?) dynamite counters while the rest of the crew focuses on the last two. And for that matter, linked, significant Sorrows should be great for arming/disarming dynamite while the model they're linked to does their usual thing.

One thing I particularly enjoy doing is taking models that the wider community thinks are average/poor, and getting as much value out of them as possible. With all the people dis'ing APandy I'm currently very, very tempted to bring my Pandy crew out of retirement and prove to all the nay-sayers that her Avatar is not nearly as terrible as so many people are making out.

[96p]

I like the fact that people think her to be weak... lets me feel less dirty playing her

[Fetid Strumpet]

Rathnard, I am talking from a purely competitive standpoint, and I doubt anyone would think that you are not a highly skilled player, and I think that is where the misconception lies.

If we assume that aPandora is being played by someone whose opponent is of equal skill level, then aPandora is in no way a better choice than regular Pandora. She might be fun, but not a competitive option.

However, that does not mean a skilled player cannot make her work. If I put two people in a maze and gave each one a weapon and only one would leave alive, and the weapons were an automatic pistol with an extra clip of ammunition, and the other a single shot derringer pistol, it would on the surface seem to be a forgone conclusion who would win. However if the derringer was issued to a special forces commando and the pistol given to an ordinary citizen then the perception would shift. That doesn't in any way mean that the derringer is a weapon whose power is equal to the automatic pistol.

I'm not saying that aPandora can never be made to work, I'm saying that in every case I can think of I would rather have her mobile shenanigans, way harder to kill, best trigger in the game regular version of herself in play, and the fact that I would also have to pay 2 SS to be rendered immobile... I'd rathor use those 2 SS to make my WP duel with crows as hard to resist as possible.

And I respectfully disagree that there is any single scenario in the game where speed is not king, because speed gives you an additional resource in the game, time. The faster your crew is the less time is required for every action to be focused on direct completion of schemes. It gives you extra time to either complete other schemes or strats, hide from the opponent and not engage to deny any interaction schemes or strats of the opponent, or perhaps spend extra time killing the opponent before dashing off to complete whatever you need to complete. Treasure hunt and Claim Jump are no different.

If you tend to look at the Masters who are perceived to be not very good one thing almost all of them share is a lack of speed.

[96p]

BUT Pandora doesn't lack speed... The problem of slow masters is that they take forever to get into combat, once they are in, there's no problem. On the other side, Pandora just rushes into combat and manifests at the best possible position, from there on you don't need mobility. Even if... you still got candy for free with a walk of 5 and a cast to push 6" AND significant sorrows.

as for survivability, I think aPandora to be way harder to kill with 16wd! and doubled healing.

[wrabbit37]

Rathnard's right in that you don't want to manifest aPandora early if you're intending to manifest her. But I think it will be hard to prove that aPandora is very valuable if you're not manifesting her early in the games. In my experience, by the time I manifest aPandora, it's mostly an afterthought because I already won, or it's the single event where I take my foot off the gas and give my opponent a chance to come back.

Avatar Pandora is a step down from regular Pandora. If you're looking to have a fun game, go ahead with her - she's got some fun tricks. If you're looking to be competative, you're paying more stones for less effectiveness. True there are certain situations where Immobile is worthwhile, but you're only going to know the strategies, not the schemes, when you have to make the decision to take her.

I do like the look of the model though.

But on topic - good things to do with her would be to park her on your Claim Jump and make that your Stake a Claim too. Six points that can't be moved off. That's good. Candy's got some good survivability, but don't think she's invincible because she's got aPandora backing her up. It only takes a few solid hits on her to kill her. An opponent who concentrates on her will take her down pretty quick. If I'm remembering right, though, aCandy can use soulstones, so keep those in your pocket too.

[96p]

and has her automatic trigger forbidding further attacks if moderate or severe dmg is flipped. Usually you have to kill her in one turn, becaus if not she'll just do a healing flip (which gives pandora one too) and or be healed by Lilithu for example.

[M_Ruckuss]

I'm with the pro APandy. Is she an auto include, as I am ffinding Zoradia to almost be for me, no. Is she useful in a number of strategies, yes-especially shared ones, where often by preventing your opponent completing missions, you yourself complete yours. Think supply wagon, line in the sand, claim jump and even slaughter....

As others have said, you get a FREE cand and significant sorrows, and the project emotions, manifest and anaethma trick is superb (reminds me of when we all thought the flee trigger on Pandoras spells affected everyone under the blast!

Her avatar may be comparatively less useful than other masters, but hey so what, her master form is great, right? Doesnt mean she should never be taken, even competatively- she has her place!

[Adanedhel]

Having tested aPandora today at the tournament, I'm inclined to agree with Rathnard.

Certain strategies like Turf War, and Reconnoiter almost seem impossible to me, especcially against ressers.

Sorrows are and will always be a staple of many a Pandora crew, but their Insignificant really hurts.

I managed to not lose at a turf war purely because I was able to manifest, and as such had relatively cheap and significant models in Sorrows.

Before the avatar I was really scared of anything requiring large numbers of significant models, because so few cheap models help Pandora out in what she does. Her avatar allows just that.

Some people dislike the Immobile, and truely, that might be a disadvantage, but it can be not so bad is some situations

She has one great problem: she loses her debuffs, that hurts her way more then any other change.

However, Hollows of despair is a very good spell, usefull for cover, but also a nasty combination with Mass Hysteria.

And never ever forget through her eyes, Ice Mirror is what can make rasputina a pita, and you get one with only -2Ca.

Candy is a free model, which heals together with pandora, and with the lessened need of Incite/Pacify, why not use sweets every turn. Though I agree you shouldn't take Candy if going for avatar. Remember in a slaughter Candy gives no SS if killed

And Claim Jump, yeah, would I really need to spell that out ^^

I wouldn't use her versus masters with lots of pulses (Som'er, Rasputina, Ramos, Sonnia) but most of the other master, yeah, I'd give it a try, and neither Seamus, nor Zoraida liked her all that much

[Fetid Strumpet]

But, in a strictly competitive environment, which I what I'm discussing, you won't know they master you are facing, only the faction. If there are very few strategies you would use the Avatar with, just spend a SS and reflip the strat, rathor than spending 2 ss for the Avatar.

I'm actually glad someone can find some kind of competitive use for her, but I agree with wrabbit, in almost every game you'd manifest with her she should have already won the game pretty much by the time you'd get around to manifesting.

Love the Model though.

[Adanedhel]

Fetid, it seems there is a difference between out environments then at competetive level, we usually got one master and a master pool (60SS if games of 35SS) (you can hire additional masters for choice, but this will cost you another 10 SS), and as such, we usually have a pretty good idea what we're facing Against rezzers and other neverborns, I really like aPandora, though I agree they won't see much use vs Guild or Arcanists (unless in Stake a Claim or Reconoiter or Turf War or Treasure Hunt) Don't forget, if in a treasure hunt Mass Hysteria lets the treasure drop

It's more that our competetive environment allows us to foresee at least a little of our opponents crew, and as such, avatars which are admittedly situational get an advantage on foreseeing their use

[96p]

I personaly like aPandora against blast heavy masters, you may not be able to evade them, but you never really were before, at least not without giving them total board control. Now you have at least way more WD, a (0) double heal via candy and you could very well hide pandora and only work with "through her eyes"