hating the neverborn

[megaron]

Been playing against neverborn lately and been having the most frustrating games of any system I have played yet. My opponent dictates everything, he controls the entire board (either with chompy and the dreamer or with the stupid puppets). What the heck can I do to at least have fun when I'm playing against these lists?

I use hoffman and lady J, both just seem destined to get creamed by any neverborn.

[Q'iq'el]

Switch the crews with him for 2~3 games. See if you cream him just as easy. See how he deals with his own list.

Hard to suggest anything more without better knowledge of the lists used (and your respective collections). I think Lady J should have a solid fighting chance against the Dreamer. I don't know Hoffman and Collodi well enough.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Well with dreamer turtle up and expect losses. Keep your guys ranked where expendables are only thing he can hit. This works beat for lady j. Remember schemes and strategies first kills second. Can't talk for Hoff. But with Hoff I would guess rely on range and branch off into two groups.

Collodi aoe hurt him a lot so stalkers can help also he is fast but austringers can tag them wherever they are. Long range support can help a lot in taking out stitch before they can get close enough to be a threat.

Slow to die from marshals is a big deterent for both crews if you can place right.

Hoff does well threaten with large amounts of scrap counters this is where its at. Large arachnids give best bang for cost but can prevent taking Ryle.

Last I think headshot bypassed stitches does not die granted they have to not have fog up to hit them.

[tadaka]

Sigh wish I could offer up some solid advice. I feel your pain on those two as well.

[Stern]

justice is always good, things with slow to die are quite fun against neverborn in general. try using Lucius and a student? deploy far back and slingshot one crazy justice into the fray? maybe one fast judge with melee expert using a decent hand of masks?

Neverborn are brutal in general, so take stuff that can deal good damage and can take a hit, like death marshals, judge, Justice, Lucius, austringers with a drill sergeant (even consider linking the drill sergeant to someone like the judge for more combat efficiency)... also remember the strategy, and take schemes you can achieve... Or just play with me balls deep and throw everything in at once Guild usually do well with that

[Kelle341]

I don’t play guild but I play against them a lot being they are the most common in my area. My advise to you is use there strengths the guild has some of the best minions in the game let you marshals blast at things from range and start completing you schemes by the time he know what happened you'll have plenty of points already and the game is yours remember its not always about killing your opponent.

[Odin1981]

Never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever,ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. ever, ever, turtle up against a Dreamer player.

If you do that you set up the perfect storm situation where dreamer drops a defensive stanced, terrifing 13 crew into your mix with coppelious right by your most important models minus your ss user and when you activate unless you have a god hand plus flip superbly on those multiply tests your deployment of your crew will lead to just about your whole crew's demise by taking 3 wounds for each failed terror test.

[tadaka]

I can see that for living models. Terror does a lot of nothing for a lot of crews in game.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I turtle up with lady j and it works fine the trick is sacrificial model placement.

With lady j she will do best turtiling. The dreamer player probably wants to see this but a marshal crew hits hard and hits often and can take the hits throw in a govern proxy and meeting terrifying list isn't so hard.

Model activation is essential in a turtle and model placement to allow for forth right reaction.

Spreading out allows the dreamer to hit and run, turtles means you sit out I will hit you iincredibly hard. Is it worth the investment to kill that model. Marshals in one activation can kill 2 models in one activation. Judge can blast the toughest models away. Turtle tempts a slaughter approach that's cook because I brought enough models to get the vp down.

[poulpox]

Hoffman is pretty ace against Dreamer with Immune to Influence, and armour is really hard for LCB to go through (Stitched are close to useless against a Hoff crew, Hoff can control Teddy, explode scrap in Coppe's face...). Kill the Daydreams and see him crawl about!! Make peace you will lose some models, and go for the easier VPs. Good luck!

[ukrocky]

Hoffman's open circuit is also excellent vs Collodi crews...

[megaron]

I dont think open circuit works against collodi at all. Doesn't it only affect non-constructs?

[mpangelu]

Hoff also can't control teddy. He is a immune to influence model. Overide Edict is a wp resist, though Collodi and his dolls aren't.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Detonate scrap can help you prevent more of those marionettes from being created. Hoff will also have an easier time keeping up than j. Hoff's is immune to dreamer terror bomb which is nice.

[micahwc]

I dont think open circuit works against collodi at all. Doesn't it only affect non-constructs?

I think you are right. At work, I will check tonight if no one else answers.

[megaron]

Now the guy who plays neverborn, just showed me the updated card on his voodoo doll. How the heck is this not the most broken thing in the game? Not only is there nothing i can do to actually kill his force (puppets picking off anything in my force before i get an activation) but now when i do activate I take 2 wounds every turn and when he kills that target, he just picks another.

This is frustrating me to the point of no return.

[Ozz]

Cheap models and lots of them, then nothing does a lot of dmg to your own stuff, and you can pick at his models. But again ill repeat the idea of swapping crews and seeing how he deals with his own crew with yours.

But Obey is one of my least favourite things in the game as it always gets repeated every turn, multiple times if your close enough.

[CannonFodder]

Not sure what to say about Chompy, but I play Collodi and Sonia is a threat to him. I've seen her take out 4-5 minions in 1 AP with , but it usually comes down to who gets initiative on a turn 2 or 3. Collodi tends to clump up a lot and with the 2-3 Wds models she can really hurt her.

Chompy if played with no remorse/compassion should win 80% of its match up.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Chompy if played with no remorse/compassion should win 80% of its match up.

Frankly that is utterly in correct. Chompy tier one master? Yes. Guild have no answers to chompy? False.

You have to be aware of the different chompy styles you will see to know how to counter each one. And you can do so with one list, it is not like you have to tailor the list to each style. And there is not one list or one master that is needed. Each master can tackle this but some better than others. Show each list and pick a master we as a community can cone up with counter lists and after counter list then you can see some commonalities that in each list.

Honestly the hardest thing about chompy above most masters is he gets to choose to hit first, he will also likely get first blood, fine deal with it. Next on the agenda. His crew tend to be either big and few, or little and numerous and it is a matter of dealing and adapting.

I will admit that we don't have a lot of dedicated dreamer players but the few we have who played with them have ranged in style and win records. We have seen the alp bomb at its peak be defeated with a living guild crew.

For a newb he is probably one of the hardest to deal with and tackle, but that is to be said for almost all armies in all wargames for armies that dictate first strike.

Pp: circle

40k: eldar

Edited November 25, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[magicpockets]

Now the guy who plays neverborn, just showed me the updated card on his voodoo doll. How the heck is this not the most broken thing in the game? Not only is there nothing i can do to actually kill his force (puppets picking off anything in my force before i get an activation) but now when i do activate I take 2 wounds every turn and when he kills that target, he just picks another.

This is frustrating me to the point of no return.

Remember that the poison only gets applied in the closing phase, so you don't take wounds on the turn he does conduit onto you. Not a big help I know but good to know if you're activating after Z/Voodoo doll

[Q'iq'el]

Now the guy who plays neverborn, just showed me the updated card on his voodoo doll. How the heck is this not the most broken thing in the game? Not only is there nothing i can do to actually kill his force (puppets picking off anything in my force before i get an activation) but now when i do activate I take 2 wounds every turn and when he kills that target, he just picks another.

This is frustrating me to the point of no return.

Trust me on this - there's no problem in the entire world that couldn't be fixed by crew swapping.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Trust me on this - there's no problem in the entire world that couldn't be fixed by crew swapping.

It can't hurt, I think this a fine idea. Trying a master from each faction can help. I know it has helped me and you don't have to buy them if you have a nice lgs willing to lend models.

Dreamer is one of those more unique movement shennigan master but is beat able by focus on feeding the right models so you can strike back.

[Q'iq'el]

It can't hurt, I think this a fine idea. Trying a master from each faction can help. I know it has helped me and you don't have to buy them if you have a nice lgs willing to lend models.

As a learning experience, it goes far beyond trying out masters from other factions.

What people have the most trouble judging, at first, is their own skill level (not only what they suck at, but also what comes easier to them too) and the play-style they like the most.

We don't know what the models are good at until we learn the game and on the top of that, we don't know what way of thinking and playing we are good at - so we all make more or less informed choices based mostly on aesthetics of the crews, only to learn in time some other Faction/Master fits us better.

When you swap the crew, you not only learn new masters, you learn new minions too... new synergies. You obviously try to re-create what the opponent has been doing to you, and you fail because it is much harder than it seems from the other side of the table. That opens the player not only to new options, but also allows him to see the holes in the opponent's plan, which is huge.

Then you see that more experienced player use your crew differently and you realize you not only don't know the opponent, but also fail to appreciate the full potential of the own models.

And if your opponent is someone really good, you get a glimpse of tactics and synergies your crew can use to actually stop his master.

That last one isn't a guarantee, because sometimes new players' crew are simply lacking in the choice of minions department and don't have the tools to do the job, or sometimes the other player isn't good enough to beat his own "internet list", but when it does happen, one gets a glimpse of the level of gameplay one should strive to achieve to be good.

And that is probably the most valuable lesson.

[sharpobjects]

Another Guild model that seems designed to assist in dealing with Chompy is the Exorcist. He has a spell called Damning Oratory which creates an 6 inch Aura; Undead, Spirit, Soulless or Nightmare models cannot declare triggers.

This is a welcome defense against onslaught and flay. The Exorcist doesnt move very well, but can get an extra 3 inch push by taking a wound.

You could add in the Guardian to body guard the Exorcist. This would increase the survivability of the Turtle Tactic assuming using that tactic fits the strategy/schemes of the given game.

He also has a couple other niffty tricks he can use against Undead, Spirit, Soulless or Nightmare models.

[megaron]

Cool, I've already pre-ordered him. Will be nice to be able to frustrate chompy from doing the stupid "all done"