Lelu and Lilitu help please

[DFAngelWolf21]

I just finished painting Lelu and Lilitu and I need a little help with them because I haven't seen them in action and I haven't had the opportunity to play them yet.

Any suggestions?

[Fetid Strumpet]

Play them and win...

Seriously the Twins and the stitched are among the absolute best models in the game, and their use is pretty self explanitory.

One thing you can do is to position Lelu in cover and Lilitu so she can see the target you want, Bond activate them together and have lilitu go first and pull whatever you want dead into Lelu's melee range. Lelu then goes to town on said model with 3 attacks, or a charge and then Melee expert attack.

[i_was_like_you]

Play them and win...

Seriously the Twins and the stitched are among the absolute best models in the game, and their use is pretty self explanitory.

One thing you can do is to position Lelu in cover and Lilitu so she can see the target you want, Bond activate them together and have lilitu go first and pull whatever you want dead into Lelu's melee range. Lelu then goes to town on said model with 3 attacks, or a charge and then Melee expert attack.

'nuff said.

Seriously, they are a potent combo.

[micahwc]

Remember to use your abilities at the closing phase. Lelu's automatic wounds, and Lilitu's healing. They are easy to forget.

Understand all the fun ways you can heal both of them together. Lilitu's auto heal, Lelu's regenerate, Lelu's drink blood, etc.

[rancor709]

The twins are amazing and once you use them you will likely start every crew with at least 1 set of twins. They work amazingly well and are to me the best models in the game.

[G&TBoy]

The twins are great, the only problem you will face is getting hold of a set.....there as rare as rocking horse droppings.

[Undisclosed]

The only issue i have with them, is i always forget about the end of turn abilities, this has cost me one of the pair on a few occasions now.

[M_Ruckuss]

There are a little insane-especially with Pandora and Lilith! Lure em in with trigger lilitu and smash them with lelu!

[DFAngelWolf21]

Thanks for the advice but I also heard that I would have to take both of them because they can't really work by themselves but it's a pain in the butt to try and get them with Nekima (I already know about the wording change for Nephilim Heart) because I can't grow the tots for the life of me. I have horrible luck and I mean like sh*t-tastic luck. And I never play big enough games. So it's a little difficult trying to choose between them.

[Tarragon]

Thanks for the advice but I also heard that I would have to take both of them because they can't really work by themselves but it's a pain in the butt to try and get them with Nekima (I already know about the wording change for Nephilim Heart) because I can't grow the tots for the life of me. I have horrible luck and I mean like sh*t-tastic luck. And I never play big enough games. So it's a little difficult trying to choose between them.

Lelu and Lilitu every time.

Nekima was already a big, unwieldy character and easily taken down. After the errata I'd argue she's not much more than an expensive distraction outside a grow list.

Lelu/Lilitu have better utility, better defenses (smaller, heals 4 Wds a turn each etc.) and have more synergy with masters outside Lilith should you decide to expand.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Agree. If you are trying to decide between the twins and Nekima I can help you.

The Twins.

Really it isn't a choice other than "I like Nekima's model better than the twins" because in terms of just plain effectiveness the Twins beat out Nekima in pretty much 99.99999% of ever list you could possibly make.

Take the Twins.

[Tarragon]

Really it isn't a choice other than "I like Nekima's model better than the twins"...

Even that has a downside, because from what I've heard Nekima is a pain in the @$$ to assemble and transport.

[micahwc]

I have had no problems with assembly or transport. The only real problem I have is where her feet connect with her base.

[letsallchant]

i think that IS the problem tho?

[rainborg]

yea i have to agree with the suggestions above, but you can run either of them without the other with Zoraida just make sure to hex away that ability as soon as possible and your golden.

[DFAngelWolf21]

I know Nekima is a pain to put together an transport but I managed.

I played Nekima for a while before I even got the twins and I know Nekima is great support wise and offensive wise and not so much defensive wise. I learned to at least try and keep her in cover long enough to at least grow my tots to young, because I have bad luck with flips.

But now that I have finally finished my second crew which is Pandora I don't really know how to use her. I know she's known for her willpower duels and I know the twins work great for her. Any suggestions on strategies that I can try and pull off before I have my first game with Pandora?

[Tarragon]

The two schemes I like best are Spread Madness (Pandora's own scheme) and Bodyguard [Pandora].

When you take Spread Madness, though, make sure it's Self-Loathing that kills, not the wound from Emotional Trauma.

Although, another scheme I like is Reclaim Malifaux. With Pandora pushin all around the board on a single (0) Action, it's not that hard to get to two or three board segments in a single activation. Or so I've used her XD Take an Insidious Madness or two, and piece of cake.

EDIT: OH, Strategys! Sorry, misread it. Well, Pandora's very flexible, so it's more about the crew than the Master for the Strategy. Destroy the Evidence is a favourite of mine, but it's really up to you.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Tarragon

[DFAngelWolf21]

Heh, small problem, I haven't even painted the Insidious Madnesses yet cause I was so concentrated on the Twins, Pandora, Kade, Candy and the Sorrows. Oh and her avatar. But the Madnesses are my next project. And Reclaim never worked for me, one because I suck at flips for my tots to sprint, and my boyfriend plays Guild and Resurrs, and he's been playing A LOT longer than me so he has the upper hand in every game, which isn't too much of an issue cause I'm not a competitive player at all. I play because I like the concept of the game, it's fun, and I like painting.

I'm just trying to get a handle on how to use a model I haven't used before so my boyfriend doesn't completely dominate me. I need to at lease try and stay standing.

[Ozz]

DF, you have played against his crews a few times i presume, and so know some of the tricks he uses to beat Pandora, maybe enough to play them? perhaps try using his crews against yours and see how he plays differently to you. Not a perfect plan as he will also expect some of those tricks afterwards, but it could help you to realise some more of the tricks that can be used with her:)

[Tarragon]

I'm just trying to get a handle on how to use a model I haven't used before so my boyfriend doesn't completely dominate me. I need to at lease try and stay standing.

Well, Pandora's a hard master to take down, from my own experience, but also a tricky one to learn. I started with Pandora, and a friend of mine started Malifaux as well. I picked up the knack of playing faster than him (I'm from a 40K background) and in the end I had to get Lilith because he flat-out refused to play against Pandora XD

I'm by no means an expert, but the best I can say is that Pandora focuses very much on Death From 1000 Cuts, but she can easily topple the toughest models in a single activation. You have to decide when to spread the Wds around, or start piling them up.

One extremely mean tactic I know of involves Doppelgänger and 2 sorrows. Doppelgänger mimics Link from the Sorrows and links to Pandy, Sorrows link to Doppelgänger. Second turn, Doppelgänger mimics Emotional Trauma and Unhealthy Relationship, which allows the Sorrows linked to it to use it's Mimic action to mimic Emotional Trauma. Then, you have four Emotional Traumas and two Emotional Stress's all Linked together roaming around. I recommend not doing that outside a tournament if you want your boyfriend to continue playing against you XD

As for aPandy, I really have no experience with her, so I can't say anything.

[DFAngelWolf21]

Haha I don't think he'll care cause when it comes to playing him, half the time it's competitive because I know how he plays. So it's okay.

But Yeah I did here about the Doppelganger and funny enough he just got me the model so I have a lot to work on before I can actually use that strategy.

I have a question only because I know it's a weakness with Lilith's crew regardless of who I take and don't take.

My boyfriend has been playing Guild a lot lately because he is into the whole tournament thing and just plays Ressurs for fun but he plays the Guild at the moment to get a better baring on them.

How would I deal with the ranged attacks other than the Illusionary Forest. I haven't gotten around to the Waldgeists yet to help with that.

Is it a matter of just charging in the Nephilim or trying to figure a way around all the gunfire...mind you, I've tried both and have failed miserably.

[Tarragon]

Well, for one have you got enough terrain on the board? That's often a problem against Guild gunline-type crews.

With Lilith, I myself go hiding in cover, then Transposition a Brood-Mothered Mature Neph in place of one of their support guys. Kill support guy, Neph opens up hole in unsupported guys for the rest of my crew to exploit.

I don't know if you've tried that, but generally every time it's failed is because I get a rubbish hand when I need it. Which, unfortunately, happens a lot to me XD

[DFAngelWolf21]

Ha yeah we have enough terrain. We have the terraclips and I usually have Nekima behind a house and some of the terrain works to my advantage because it's streets and sewers together and I usually deploy by the sewer and we obviously count it as hazardous/sever so my crew completely ignores it for the most part.

I think I might give that strategy some thought depending on what the game is the next time I play. I have thought about running a tot up into melee with the opposing crew and then activate Lilith and companion the Primordial Magic, have him go first to do trasposition on the tot and Lilith then have Lilith either do Whirling Death (obviously depending on the number of opposing models) or just beat the hell out of whoever the tot was hitting.

[micahwc]

Lilith's abilities to combat a gunline are as follows.

Illusionary forest to block LOS

Transposition to switch models into better positions

Abusing master of malifaux, flight, float, sprint, and scout; which the majority of her models will have.

The range on most guns in the game is within range of a diving attack mature nephilim, or a charging young nephilim, or transposition.

The longest ranged gun in the game is IIRC 16", lure has an 18 inch range. Lilith's 6 inch walk, plus a 12 inch transposition = 18 inches.

Honestly, I don't think the gunlines are all that difficult for a Lillith crew if you use hit and run tactics, and remember to abuse terrain as much as possible. Very few minions are good at ranged attacks and melee.

[eBadger]

Run up a tot; hide it completely behind terrain (hopefully fairly easy with a 1" model). Next activation have lillith brood a mature, advance as needed and transposition the mature with the tot. Mature activates immediately and diving charges wherever needed, engaging gunfighters as best possible. Knock aside could help to group enemies and re-engage them.

With the right cards (low mask, high tome) the tot can move ~15" (sprint+walk) plus a 10" charge for the mature, with the potential for a second charge with the trigger. Largely ignores terrain (scout+flight) and no resists until the combat. Shooting? What shooting?

Just be sure to rush up fast and take advantage of the mature's disruption and time things well or he'll be scrubbed out and you'll be too far away and still have to face the gun line. The odds of fragging and defensive bonus for melee should shut down shooting at the mature, but his low defense means even non-melee types can take him down in a mob.

Edited January 5, 2012 by eBadger