Hanged! I give up!!

[Bigkid]

I've tried these poxy gits 4 times now and can I bugger get them to work!

I've read all of the stuff on the forum and all that but I can't get their 'on paper' abilities to transfer onto the tabletop.

Has anyone got any actual in game evidence/stories of them performing? You know, actually doing something....anything!

Other than dying a little slower than most and forcing a few opponents to make very easy WP tests?

Or are they the definition of theory over practice??

(it's not just me is it?)

[CannonFodder]

I think they are great if against certain masters, and only bring one. I don't play them but got a the scare of my life when my Colette got hit by the spell that stopped her from healing. So no more Slow to die/healing flip, or the switch with showgirl. She spent the game hiding, not taking any risks which normally is not a problem.

If you can pull that off on Colette, Vonschills, Kirai the masters lose a ton of functionality. against Big meanings with Regen they effectively lose 4-5 life over the game. I think Killjoy auto heals.

Its one of those models that are situational, But it can be used in a lot of situations. You basically need to go threw the book and make a list of the situations it is used for.

The easiest and most used is as a 2 in a 1-2 punch. If you can soften up a target first, then charge a weakened model taking it out causing everything within 8 inches to make a terror check. Its low check but every card helps.

Most model in the point range of the hanged are either point or flanking unit. Which do stuff on their own and are ment to take out models on their own. This guy is a mop up model the that does clean up with bonuses.

[Mawdrigen]

Yes I have used them to GREAT effect in a tactic that is now known in the area as "Teddy Gang Bang".

Teddy is hideously effective, Immune to influence, regenerating, sometimes FLYING engine of death. If he is on the table I want him OFF the table ASAP because leaving him alone will make for a very bad day.

My last game against hims as Kirai however went like this:

Put out sacrificial target (Shikome in this case) Teddy drops on her nearly kills her.

Onryo goes forward and Mark of Jigoku's teddy (bye bye immune to influence...)

Something else activates on Pandoras side.

Hanged uses hideous spell of hideous.

Teddy is now on half hits, no longer immune to influence (this round), and cannot be healed (or REGENERATED) for the rest of the game.

Gaki proceed to attack him until he dies.

That hideous spell is incredibly dangerous, especially if you hit their master or other important mini with it. What you do need though is a decoy so they dont realise it's coming.

[Ratty]

I never had any luck against Pandora until I started running a Hanged.. Wp7 and if it gets a hit in that's no more Inciting or Pacify moving for Pandora, it's very hard for her to win with a without Soulstoning and her only method of defence isn't worth tofee. A Hanged in the face and she suddenly goes into panic mode, at worse she ends up spending SS trying to fend off it's attacks, at best Jack Daw is there backing it up and Pandora is neutered for the rest of the game.

I also found they are amazing against Coryphee. If you can get a shot in, that's a Coryphee that can't heal and is on half wounds, .. Worked wonders for me..

[CannonFodder]

I think the fact they are 2 per blister causes the most confusion, because they are 2 people bring 2 when one is all you need. Maybe 2 in a large brawl.

[Hookers]

i pretty much use them solely for half your wds no more healing. can completely shut some masters/models down

[Bigkid]

Surely 'Whisper from beyond' only gets cast on an opponents Master/Henchman if they've never played against a hanged before?!

Anyone with half a brain will stop it going off (cheat/SS).

Yes this means they're burning SS but a Hanged is 8SS for Pete's sake!

Is the trick to get it into combat??

[Hatchethead]

I try to burn an opponent's hand before I launch Whisper from Beyond. The Hanged will often be my last or close to last activation. My opponent gets all bunged up, trying to save a high cards to defend against the Hanged. Plus the inevitable burned soulstones. For that alone, I love 'em.

But really, they're extremely match-up dependent. Against some crews, they're pure gold. Against others, they're an 8ss waste of a 30mm base. Some Book 1 crews just hate The Hanged.

I'll put them into combat with a Nico or Kirai crew, if only for the heals, and never against lopsided odds. Other than that, I tend to keep them back. Baleful Aura + Horrifying trigger does make for some nice non-cheatable Wp duels. Condemned Whisper ignores Immune to Influence, which can be fun.

I do enjoy Hangman's Knot. Drag an unactivated model into melee range, hit them with Baleful Aura, trigger Horrifying, (0) Smell Fear, then when they activate, they're up against a Terrifying 13 with a ... no cheat, bye bye, plus a free Charge, possible Horrible End. Of course, this requires an enemy model that gives a hoot about Terrifying, but then, that pretty much sums up The Hanged.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Cornelious1424]

It's not a bad idea to get one in combat, to be honest. The auto trigger of it's melee attack can help make other moral/Wp duels easier to pull off, and I think that is it's intent. Fist few turns find a target for Whisper from Beyond, then get in combat with multiple enemy models to force flips on all Wp duels for the rest of the game. Models will be falling back due to the Hanged terrifying if they can no longer cheat in the duel. Hope this helps.

[Hatchethead]

Like Ratty and Cornelious say, if you're able to get stuck in and dole out that permanent to Wp duels, even if your Hanged dies in the process, that can be really worth it dependent on which enemy models you manage to horrify.

Heck, hit that 8ss Undead model with Stimulant and Speed from a Nurse, send him into a tight clump, bam bam bam with that Baleful Aura! 8" charge, Cb 8, likely 3 permanent to Wp duels.

Dead 8ss model.

Stupid? Yeah. Pretty sure.

If they weren't so expensive, it would be fun to play with two Hanged. Send one forward to hand out negative flips, keep the other back to drop ranged Wp duels on the unfortunate.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Hatchethead

[Buhallin]

Things I have done/combo'ed with my Hanged:

- Horrifying on Pandora. Was late game and she was out of stones. As Ratty says, win.

- Horrifying + Rough Trade (Sybelle) + Trail of Fear = might as well be dead model. Did this to... someone, can't remember who, in a game vs. Pandora

- No healing on Teddy, Coryphee, Executioner

- Trail of Fear + Last Words = lots of surprisingly hard morale duels

- Absorbed a complete assault from Lord Chompy Bits, and Horrified him in return

- Paired with Shikome vs. her prey

That's off the top of my head. It's important to remember that the Hanged's purpose is debuffs - that means you have to either pick the right target to neutralize them (things with healing) or exploit it (target them with abilities that require Wp duels). If you're just lobbing him out there and hitting stuff, it's not going to accomplish much. You have to have a finisher.

[Hatchethead]

- No healing on Teddy ...

The local 'born players hate my Hanged for this alone.

[Bigkid]

Think I'll give her another go or two.

The combat route sounds viable.

Besides, I've painted the tart she can bloomin' well work for it!

[demkoenig]

If you run Kirai, I think this might be downright disgusting:

Jack Daw

Hanged

Insidious Madness

Summon a Shikome

Insidious Madness goes out and applies the (-) Wp flips.

Hanged Attacks and does more (-) Wp flips.

Jack Daw makes it so you can't use Soulstones.

Shikome attacks Wp.

Or just leave out Jack Daw and take another Hanged!

[Bigkid]

I run Seamus, any crew specific tactics?

[Buhallin]

Since most of the Hanged's stuff hits Wp, having Trail of Fear up is great. Last Words isn't great on its own, but inside Trail of Fear most models will need at least a 7+ to pass, and that's not nothing. Also, remember that Terrifying only affects living, but only Constructs, Undead, and Spirits are immune to Morale Duels, so Last Words can hit things like Nightmares.

Lots of options for Terrifying and Morale Duels - also great on a big model once you hit it with Horrifying.

Sybelle's Rough Trade is great on anything you've hit with Horrifying, and Shriek triggers duels on top of damage.

Remember that once a model passes a Terrifying check it doesn't have to test again as long as it's in range of that source - so use Lure to pull models from one source to another and make sure they have to keep testing. No strictly a Hanged combo, but he does have a very nice Terrifying.

Since the Hanged are there to inflict Horrifying, you don't want them stuck in combat any more than they have to be - Lure them out.

I find little use in the Copycat Killer so almost always run him with a Grave Spirit... and Hanged + Grave Spirit - hella tough model. Again, not strictly a Seamus combo, but I think the other rezzer masters get more utility out of their personal totems.

[kanhead]

I had a lot of trouble using them at first but now i always take one with Seamus. The high stats and spirit coupled with a grave spirit make them nearly unkillable. As everyone above says, they are pure utility.

Hangman's knot is a backup lure + dmg, always very handy in objective based missions. Whisper from beyong is great at shutting down models that heal or just taking a chunk out of a something with high wounds. I rarely use Last Words but it's very handy once you have laid a few Wp debuffs out with the Horrifying trigger. The Horrifying trigger is insane when you start combining it with other mini's Wp resist spells (not to mention the many morale duels Seamus can cause).

I use them aggresively and try to cause as many Morale duel losses as possible. With terrifying 13 and a Wp debuff few opponents can get an activation in which means you can use them to run a key model away from the action. The opponent is forced to invest a lot of actions to remove them or they risk their crew being debuffed apart. Get them in the opponents face early and force them to deal with it.

[poulpox]

Condemned Whisper ignores Immune to Influence

Hi Hatchet, how is this so?

[Gensuke626]

Hi Hatchet, how is this so?

I believe he's referring to the Morale duel aspect of Condemned Whisper. Immune to Influence only allows you to ignore duels in which you are the defender. The Morale duel tied to Condemned Whisper is a simple duel.

[Calmdown]

I've tried these poxy gits 4 times now and can I bugger get them to work!

I've read all of the stuff on the forum and all that but I can't get their 'on paper' abilities to transfer onto the tabletop.

Has anyone got any actual in game evidence/stories of them performing? You know, actually doing something....anything!

Other than dying a little slower than most and forcing a few opponents to make very easy WP tests?

Or are they the definition of theory over practice??

(it's not just me is it?)

They're not that good. Some people swear by them; I assume said people have opponents that for some reason can't work out how to deal with them. Or cos their opponents run all living crews, at which point they're actually worthwhile.

[kanhead]

Calmdown, if you're using him for the morale duels then you're only getting a third of his value. Against living crews he is insane, against Nightmare spam you need to rely on his other abilities but he still gives great utility. I know you really like the dead rider so i guess he's directly competing at 8ss.

If every opponent uses a Neverborn filth list then you should find another opponent.

[Golden]

I use them to pull cards from my opponents, noone wants to get hit by their abilities. Sometimes they can be absolutely devastating, but they aren't just tanks they take a little practice, DO NOT GIVE UP ON THEM.

[poulpox]

I believe he's referring to the Morale duel aspect of Condemned Whisper. Immune to Influence only allows you to ignore duels in which you are the defender. The Morale duel tied to Condemned Whisper is a simple duel.

Oh I see, and after re-reading Condemned Whisper is not even labeled as a morale duel, but simply a Wp duel, hence constructs aren't immune to it, or am I getting this wrong? So you could hit a construct, give it the (-) to Wp flips and then it has to (-) flip for Condemned Whisper... pretty nice!

[Hatchethead]

Oh I see, and after re-reading Condemned Whisper is not even labeled as a morale duel, but simply a Wp duel, hence constructs aren't immune to it, or am I getting this wrong? So you could hit a construct, give it the (-) to Wp flips and then it has to (-) flip for Condemned Whisper... pretty nice!

Indeed; at least, that's how I've always played it. It's not a Morale Duel and there is no defender (it doesn't qualify as an attack). Unless a model is immune to any and all Wp duels, Condemned Whispers can effect it. Teddy, Perdita, all those pesky Immune to Influence types. Granted, it's only versus an 11, but if you can Horrify them first ...

[Hookers]

they are really good in combat, but they are pretty slow

masters aren't the only ones reliant on healing. but yes if you cast it at a master and they have to use a soulstone to avoid it that is just as good. they will run out eventually.