Jonas Albrecht Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Cause I'm looking to finally pull that trigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Are you talking models to have available, or Soulstones? For Soulstones, I find four to be pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Are you talking models to have available, or Soulstones? For Soulstones, I find four to be pretty good. Models. Where's a good place to start, after the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 You'll want two blisters of Seishin, Lost Love and probably two of Gaki. If you really like Datsue-Ba, you might want more Gaki. After that, a Shikome or two. By getting that, you've got enough stuff for summoning, keeping Kirai alive, and getting some heavier hitters in the form of the Shikome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Albrecht Posted September 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 How do Shikome stack up against say, a Coryphee Duet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) I agree totally on 2 packets of Seishin and a pack of Gaki... Minimum... I also would consider the Lost Love a good bet. After that you have some choices. Some people run Shikome. I don't run them often as I don't particularly like the model so I only run them when I have a friend with one I can borrow (about 2 games so far), I have a very good win average so I can definitely say they are not essential. I'm personally a huge fan of Jack Daw with Kirai, if you know what your doing he's devestating. Insidious madnesses are great too. Kirai is very much down to personal preference after you have the 5xSeishin, Lost Love block in your army (you can take less Seishin I some times go as low as 3 starting to fit other models in if I think they will help with the scenario). Note- From personal experience I can definitely say that Jack Daw can protect you very well from a Duet. There main surviability come from them being about to get the flip and Use Soulstone. Jack Daw can stop them cheating the flip or using Soulstones. Edited September 11, 2011 by Ratty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 I will say I very much like Night Terrors with her after getting to use them...as Spirits, they fit well with her, and they're just so fast that you can get up the field rapidly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 I will say I very much like Night Terrors with her after getting to use them...as Spirits, they fit well with her, and they're just so fast that you can get up the field rapidly. Have you tried Insids? Insids and Night Terrors seem to fill very similar roles, I wonder how they actually compare in game, on paper Insidious Madnesses seem to be slightly better, but you never know until you play things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Have you tried Insids? Insids and Night Terrors seem to fill very similar roles, I wonder how they actually compare in game, on paper Insidious Madnesses seem to be slightly better, but you never know until you play things. Night Terrors are a lot harder to take down and their blind makes them better offensively. Madness has the better Wp debuff and is faster (singly anyway) plus has the initiative option. I think in terms of utility they're about even, but the NT being a point cheaper makes it better when comparing the two. Personally though Id run both because I consider them to fulfil different roles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 I'd get at least one Shikome, 2 blisters of Seishin, Lost Love, and 2 Blisters of Gaki. If you were going for absolute most essential, Lost Love, 2 blisters of Seish, 1 Blister of Gaki. I personally love my Shikome although I do stop short of the people that say you need two. I've used Jack Daw quite a bit too, but I think at least in my own meta that two insid madness are a better buy them him, and they are a phenomenal model to run especially if you run Datsue-Ba, Shikome, or master using the Ikiryo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I'd say the trap of thinking you can start with a bunch of cheap garbage and Evolve Spirit them into better. Can you? Certainly. But at the same time, someone like Collodi or Dreamer won't let you have the time. A heavy hitter on the board turn one is a necessity, even if it isn't a Spirit. Lost Love can turn other models into Spirits, and if you're seeing a lot of magical weapons, you can just skip it. Shikome are good for that role, and I've also found that Misaki can fit the job well, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 You don't necessarily need a big hitter on the board, but then again I generally run a Jack/Ikiryo tag team crew, and Jack is not cheap. Maybe he counts as my big hitter. I can definitely see the value in starting with a Shikome. One other thing to note if your going to be playing er *cough* Colette a lot, Cassandra is horrific for you, she can practically take out Kirai and all her Seishin in one activation due to her firebreathing triggers.. Make her your first priority to kill every game. Duets aren't as bad as they are for other crews as their attacks aren't magic, Cassandra's are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Orchestral Crescendo will just burst any number of Seishin. There are ways of mitigating it a bit. Kirai has a (0) action that means that if they die you can spend 1Wd so they are killed not sacrificed, this means they create a new one on death. If you keep only 1 or 2 near Kirai (which you want to do, remember you can return them to her at the end of any activion) you can do some nasty tricks, eg if Kirai and a Seishin take damage simultaneously. You can pass damage from her onto the Seishin that is already destined to die, and then take a single Wd to create a new one when it dies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 or you could sac a seishin so you are immune to blasts/pulses/auras. One of our local kirai players just keeps summoning onryo until their opponents just drown under all the pressure. It works great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edonil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 As a weird thought, something I've been wondering...how many Seishin do you keep in base contact with Kirai at any point in time? I've done the full complement of 5, and found it to be somewhat restrictive for movement purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 As a weird thought, something I've been wondering...how many Seishin do you keep in base contact with Kirai at any point in time? I've done the full complement of 5, and found it to be somewhat restrictive for movement purposes. Normally 2, but it depends on a few things. How much room do you have around your base for new Seishin to be summoned? In how much potential danger are you and is Lost Love still on the table? Are there AEs that you may want to avoid losing too many Seishin to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 You can walk through spirits edonil so it shouldnt limit your movement at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I generally only keep 1 or 2. If you have more it means that you can lose more to blasts and Seishin are too useful as scouts, if you keep them in contact with her all game your wasting points, if your using them to give her escape routes they make their points back. I can remember one game where I the Viks were about to hit Kirai and I into the Spirit World and then Swirled to a Seishin that was on the other side of the board, just sitting there in the middle of nowhere being discrete.. I think the opponent had completely forgot about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMills Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I have been taking the following not sure if you would count it as a good list or not only played it about 3 times. Kirai 6ss Pool Lost Love 5 Seishin Gaki Dead Rider Datsue-Ba Dead rider usually dies turn 2 or 3 but by that time I have some of the bigger spirits on the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I would swap in either a Insidious or a Night Terror for the Gaki, otherwise it looks fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I find that I am beginning to favor swarm lists. I rarely start with a hitter on the board I load up on seishin, lost love, Datsue-ba or some other support/hitty model, and all the Gaki I can take. I find the the extra swarming ability of significant models gives Kirai even more maneuverability, and even greater flexibility about how her summons go. I don't really ever summon anything other than Shikome and Ikiryo over the course of the game, and the swarm gives me more flexibility in how I position and am able to summon, as well as saturates the board in objective grabbers and holders. I find if they concentrate their force on Kirai and my hitters, they let the gaki swarm about almost unopposed. If they concentrate on stopping the Gaki my hitters tear their targeted models to pieces, and then the Shikome grab the objectives. If they try to control both groups they often lack the power to control both effectively and I still achieve my objectives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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