Violation of Magic: Witchling placement

[TeeCee]

Just had a game with Criid recently and was wondering about the correct positioning of the summoned Witchling.

Violation of Magic states “summon a Witchling Stalker to the target before it is removed from play”.

In the rules manual p.55 “a summoned model’s base must be placed completely within 6” of the summoning model” & “a model summoned into base contact with another model must be placed in base contact with that model”.

My interpretation of Violation of Magic is the first clause in which the witchling must be placed within 6” of the target of Violation of Magic; is this correct?

Also can a summoned model be placed into melee range of an enemy if it meets its summoned requirements also?

[Edweird]

strangely I had this same question this weekend... until now I have been doing it as a replacement effect for placement; but this weekend I keyed in to the "Summon" word as you did, which means "within 6 inches" as you mentioned...

Thus I am with your interpretation, it is within 6 inches of the target

[goldenjester]

I agree with the above. From what I can tell, this is the correct ruling. And oh boy, does that 6 inches help.

[dsmiles]

It seems like that would be the correct interpretation. (I hope, because that's how I do it.)

[Headcase2]

Yes, you summon the new witchling completely within 6" of the target of Violation. The new witchling is slow, but can be summoned in melee range of an enemy model if you want.

[TeeCee]

Thank you all, that's what the majority assumed but some still weren't sure. Thought i was better to check.

[Cadilon]

Yes, you summon the new witchling completely within 6" of the target of Violation. The new witchling is slow, but can be summoned in melee range of an enemy model if you want.

Just to confirm, is this still the prevailing opinion?

[mpangelu]

I'd say so. A summon within 6" is how it is summoned normally. There are exceptions that specify otherwise (such as summon into base to base contact). I'd definitely go with it is a standard summon unless otherwise specified.

---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------

Also off topic, Cadilon, where did you get the completo meter? or did you make that?

[Cadilon]

Also off topic, Cadilon, where did you get the completo meter? or did you make that?

I just made it myself in Illustrator. Unfortunately, every time I get a new box set or update it, I have to go in and mess with it. Its kind of a pain.

---------- Post added at 09:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 AM ----------

And also, anymore I find myself mostly working on additional models outside the boxsets. So even though I am making painting progress, it doesn't show on the meter. I kinda like this idea, but maybe I should move on to a % completed meter or something.

[mpangelu]

I like it the way it is, its a wonderful illustration and I can see what you mean by time consuming.

[CRC]

I recall a statement once that said summoning to a target means in base-to-base with the target. I'll try to hunt it down.

[cerealkiller195]

i believe the v2 cards read "summon to base" which would mean anywhere that is touching the base the witchling is placed. Summoning is usually within 6" unless specified by spell or effect.

[CRC]

And I've got nothing. I'm sure I heard it, but there's no evidence, so I'd go with the within 6" interpretation.

[durek]

Its states "summon a WS to the target"

Which means that the WS base must be placed completly within 6" of the target (of the spell that died) NOT Sonia. Usually when a model is summoned it is within 6" of the caster. I thinks thats where your getting hung up here.

Remember that summoned models may still activated that turn but have slow.

Hope this helps.

[mpangelu]

^ +1

[Twisted Metal]

Unless it specifically states that its summoned into base to base it is summoned with in 6". The statement summon it too X model just indicates that its going to be summoned near the target of the spell and not near Sonnia.

[NeuroFire]

Oh man, I've totally been doing the base contact thing... Well, this will come in handy.

[Boscotopia]

To - (used for expressing motion or direction toward a point, person, place, or thing approached and reached, as opposed to from )

(used for expressing direction or motion or direction toward something) in the direction of; toward:

The word to is a preposition: any member of a class of words found in many languages that are used before nouns, pronouns, or other substantives to form phrases functioning as modifiers of verbs, nouns, or adjectives, and that typically express a spatial, temporal, or other relationship, as in, on, by, to, since.

In the case of Violation, there are no nouns between "to" and "the target" which means the noun being modified is "target" - this means the parameters of the sentence are not met unless base contact is made. It does not say "within..." or "near". If they wanted it to work otherwise, they need to re-write the card. You can interpret all you want, the way it is written is base contact unless you believe running to the finish line means you win if you get within six feet of it and just stop............

English is English, play it as it is written.

[Mantis840]

Wow ok some has waaay too much time on their hands.

Luckily the ones who write the cards have already shown when something needs to be in base to base, cause it will say it right on the card like:

Steampunk arachnid swarms-scatter

Leveticus- Pariah/Blessing of Desolation/ and Necrotic Unmaking

Steampunk abomination - Desolate warping

The Stolen - Inevitable Fate

Also these models have wording that says " into base contact" :

Rat Catcher, Malifaux rat, Ashes and Dust, Dust Storm, Obedient Wretch, Hamelin the Plagued, Colette, Datsue-Ba, and Kirai. Not to mention there's some Avatars that also say "into base contact."

I'd say by looking at all these examples and looking to Criid's card which doesn't say "into base contact" that it's pretty safe to say the original opinions of within 6" of violation target would be correct.

Oh yeah I was told to smile more

[Forar]

It's also not easily done, requiring Sonnia to have either spent a soulstone or have a high enough tome in hand (or get lucky to snag one on the flip) to pull it off, and unless it's a fairly powerhouse caster it's only successful against targets with 1 wd left.

Don't get me wrong, it's not impossible, but it does require some effort to do, so I don't see a problem with the Stalkers getting a bit of bump in where they can end up. I wouldn't be terribly put off if Wyrd clarified that it was indeed meant to be base to base contact, but they're generally quite specific with that necessity.

[Golden]

A model summoned "to" another model is placed in base to base unless stated otherwise by the effect, thats how Ive been doing it since it was found by our local henchman. I think its in the general rules, good luck with finding it.

[durek]

A model summoned "to" another model is placed in base to base unless stated otherwise by the effect, thats how Ive been doing it since it was found by our local henchman. I think its in the general rules, good luck with finding it.

I think your Henchman may have missread the paragraph on p.55 of RM, confusing the into base to base section. As previously stated Wyrd has made it very clear when it wants things in base to base. I would be surpised that a summon rule would be in another section of the RM; happy to be proven wrong with a page #.

It states nothing on p.55 of the "to" another model. The dasturdly "to" in this rule refers instead of the point of origin of the summon; in this case the dying model not Sonia. Thats always the way I've seen it play.

[Golden]

Check pg 115 of the new 1.5 rulebook. It states base contact with the target.

[GrAYFoX]

These stealth stat card changes to abilities are starting to grate. Our group ran into this when looking for the most up to date version of dispel magic (Witchling Handler).

Perhaps a fourth PDF is needed to specifically track these; something like Talents and Spells updates PDF?

[durek]

Check pg 115 of the new 1.5 rulebook. It states base contact with the target.

I stand corrected sir, thank you for bringing the update to my attention.

Will inform my group.