Help me understand Seamus' Avatar.

[Sandwich]

Twisting Fates will not be available to me until a proposed September 5th.

Of course my hiatus with Wyrd has ended and I desperately want to pay them money for fairly obvious reasons.

However, to abate my ever growing interest for the time, I want to see if I can prod some further detail about Avatar Seamus.

From what I've read (To the extent of what others, such as Necromorph and Wrabbit have written,) is that Seamus' Avatar changes his focal gameplay from that of Board Control to hardcore up close combat and Terrifying via a new Action/spell/trigger? called Anathema.

Part I

Avatar Seamus' Weaponry

It appears as though Seamus gains Paired Cb 7 hamhocks that deal modest damage and possibly the ability to fling Corpse Counters (Which, if true, make Wyrd the most amazing company on the face of the planet).

Questions:

1. What is the Damage on Seamus' Fists?

2. What is the Damage on Seamus' Corpse Fling?

3. Does throwing a Corpse destroy it or move its location?

Part II

Avatar Seamus' Anathema

As the Avatar of Dread, Seamus' job is quite clearly to cause Dread. After reading the very few slivers of information available, it appears as though Anathema forces ALL models to take the Terrifying check, except for other models with Anathema themselves.

Questions

1. What is the Range of Anathema? Is it his Melee Range (If so, what is his melee range?) or does it have its own aura?

2. How many other models have Anathema?

3. I've been told he can augment Anathema at a sacrifice of his own WP. What is the highest number he can get Anathema to, and what is the lowest his WP will become in doing so? (I've heard 17 and 1, I'd like confirmation.)

- - - - -

General:

1. What abilities/actions/triggers/spells does he retain? How many new ones does he get?

2. From playtesting, does he feel balanced, broken,...?

3. Is he on a 50mm Base?

4. Does he sweet ass Cigar play any role other than making him look ridiculously amazing?

5. What is his Wk/Cg?

[Ratty]

He's great fun....

[Sandwich]

Oh man Ratty I believe it.

I'm definately coming back to this game because of him.

And McMourning.

[nilus]

Don't have the book in front of me but I will answer what I an from memory

3. Does throwing a Corpse destroy it or move its

location?

I believe you have to sacrifice a corpse counter to do the attack

2. How many other models have Anathema?

Just him and APandora I think

2. From playtesting, does he feel balanced, broken,...?

Very situtational, like many of the Avatars. They do a lot of cool things but they are no unkillable. I believe he falls into the category of Avatars that is actually easier to kill then his Master form

3. Is he on a 50mm Base?

Yep

4. Does he sweet ass Cigar play any role other than making him look ridiculously amazing?

Just looks good, possibly causing cancer through second hand smoke but that rarely manifests in the time frame of a 6 round game

[Necromorph]

His Dg. is 3/4/5, rg3, cb 6, paired but can buff himself in rg and cb.

Hurl Corpse is 1/2/3blast. Unfortunately he simply discards a corpse counter to use the attack. It does have a trigger that ofc...causes a morale duel...like everything else he has pretty much, lol.

A couple Avatars have Anathema (actually just 2 of the Neverborn Avatars), and it only effects that model's terrifying ability (pretty much like terrifying 2.0)...so basically whatever the range of their melee is.

He can upgrade his Terrifying to 15 with a (0). I don't know where people got 17...other than the fact that he has a (1) aura that can lower wp by 2, which they then incorrectly attributed as "basically like having an extra +2 terrifying" which it's not.

Not sure what he keeps as I'm not 100% familiar with Seamus' spell/ability names, but most avatars kept 1 ability that they had in master form. I know he keeps (+1) fast and H2K, but no idea on actual abilities.

His cigar appears to be for show, haha.

He is on a 50mm.

EDIT, apologies, his +2 terror buff can be used twice in sequential turns to make him terror 17....don't know how I read it all those time and missed the "cumulative and lasts until end of the encounter" part, haha. Though it will drop you to wp 1.

His walk is +0/+1 wk/cg from his master form.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Necromorph

[Fetid Strumpet]

I've used him a few times, and yes his Avatar form is much easier to kill than his regular form. That said, and even because of this I'm pretty much auto-including his Avatar form every time I play Seamus. Anathema is a wonderful ability, and I've found it is very useful if Seamus gets ganged, especially by things that would normally be immune to Terror *coughnightmarescough*. Seamus also has a 3" reach so its a big bubble. He is also Wicked, so trying to leave his Melee range can hurt you badly. I also enjoy the fact that his fists can trigger Terror Checks, and that one of his abilities is "Bellowing of the Big Bastard".

[Vaff]

Anathema states that your terrifying effects any model without anathema, and makes your terrifying ignore any immunity to Morale duels.

Also, you can Succumb to Darkness twice in a game, thus bringing up your terrifying to a 17 (base 13 + 2 + 2).

Bludgeoning fists are not Paired in my book or on my cards. They do ignore armor though.

Here's the things he loses:

.50 flint lock, Hard to Wound 2, all of his spells, all of his triggers.

He gains:

Regeneration 2,

Wicked

Anathema(!)

Mark of Dread (Boosts all your terrifying models terrifying by +1 and makes all of your non-terrifying models terrifying 12.

Stain of Damnation: He's not considered living for game effects, but still drops corpse counters.

3 awesome triggers, decent spells (a self buff to give him a 4" range with 7crow to attack and a positive flip to damage at the cost of 1 wp, 14cc cast paralyze, and a way to heal yourself 12rc)

+2 Armor while engaged.

After playing him, I definitely like his triggers and his literal actions that are completely awesome. He has a trail of fears like ability that's a 1 cost that gives enemy models -2 wp and a 1 cost 4" pulse that makes everyone around him perform a WP -> 13 morale duel. He also heals 1 wd for each model that loses a morale duel in a 10" aura around him.

Needless to say, he becomes a beat stick that can make even the most stubborn crews cry for their mommies!

Edited August 16, 2011 by Vaff

[dakrulz55]

well i also find it as a good transition (unlike lady j and lillith) as you go from ranged support cannon to melee gorilla of doom. plus you dont have to go too far out of your way to manifest either, but you do loose the ability to rienforce your ranks but i think if you bring molly you will not loose it entirely.

also a side note anyone think its silly that onryo only go to tf11 but anyone who doesnt have it goes to 12?

[Cornelious1424]

I think the trick is going to be to race into melee with a few enemies, drop their Wp by 2, use Bellowing of the Big Bastard and his 13 + Terrifying to force enemies to run away, keep them in melee while also doing damage with Wicked. aSeamus is going to be a target, and an easy one once he is no longer in melee. Don't focus AP on attacking, as this will leave him exposed if you kill things too fast. The game I played (I had to proxy unfortunately) I managed to manifest turn 3 by doing both requirements. I killed a two Death Marshals, a Watcher and a Witchling Stalker in three turns, but was taken out at the end of the game once aSeamus was no longer in melee.

[Teal]

If you can afford to drop your WP and increase your Terrifying to 17, using your -2 WP debuff will mean that WP 5 models will automatically flee from you. Is that actually how it works? Because if so, aSeamus is my new favorite person in the world.

[Calmdown]

If you can afford to drop your WP and increase your Terrifying to 17, using your -2 WP debuff will mean that WP 5 models will automatically flee from you. Is that actually how it works? Because if so, aSeamus is my new favorite person in the world.

Unless they hit a Red Joker But even without getting to that extreme, or without the Wp debuff up, the chances of things fleeing are high. And people only have so many cards to burn to get around it.

But yes, he's not only scary, he's REALLY scary. And there are plenty of lists against which dropping your Wp low really isn't an issue so I don't think this will be particularly non-viable as long as you know when to take him and when not to bother.

Does his new Trail of Fear work on nonliving models or is it the same ability?

[Vaff]

(1) Gorgon's Miasma: 10. Enemy models receive -2 Wp. This Action ends at the start of the End Closing Phase.

So yes, it works on All enemy models. I guess it's worth the (1) after all!

[DeleteAccount]

Well, as long as you don't nuke your willpower vs Pandora, shouldn't be much of a problem. The usual Lady J crew only has the problem of being pineboxed and with terror 17, barely any marshals will have the balls to engage.

[Zephir]

A few random musings for A-Seamus

Im not an expert with the big guy yet, but I played 2 games with him over the past weekend where he died pretty quick, and I learned a few things about what not to do.

Both A&R Seamus can be killed. It may sound odd, but when you look at the Seamus' they are both VERY tough, but unlike a the Neverborn masters who don't have nearly his toughness, he has no tricks to stay alive. Once an enemy starts pounding on Seamus all his nice toughness tricks fly out the window. So step 1 is protect him. When you plan to Manifest, here are your top 3 ways to keep him alive.

#1 Keep him out of melee pre manifest. Its tough since his crappy manifest requirment (trigger juggular slit on no escape) requires him to get into Melee.

#2 Kill your opponents top hitter. If there is a Lelu, Joss, Peacekeeper, or something similar on the board it has to die before you Pop out the big guy. those kinds of hitters will shred A-Seamus.

#3 Once manifested keep him in melee. Drop him in the Center of your opponets crew and keep him with Armor 2. Then you can start punching or Howling depending on what your facing.

Dont underestimate his Anathema ability. Requiring every model who comes at him to take a terrify check is sweet. Its probably his best defense. I would not manifest him against certain opponents, such as Pandora since his Wp drop is massive, so against foes to target WP often keep him in the Regular Form. Otherwise feel free to use Succumb to Darkness at least 1 time. Your WP will drop to 3, so NEVER USE THIS VS DREAMER! But your Anathema jumping to a solid 15 means the average model needs to burn a double digit card just to fight you. Swarm attackers such as Marionettes and Malifaux Rats are very likely to head for the hills the second they have to test vs his 15.

A nice thing about A-Seamus is he has 2 strong focus' He can either hit you with his 3' reach fists, or start a WP frenzy. Against living crews I might Bellow every turn just to make them pitch a lot of cards. And he can always fall back on the whole Punching thing if they flip really well. Im hoping I can really take advantage of his flexability in the future to have better results

I have found him to be a pretty much auto-include for Seamus from here on out. there are still some things I have to get down to make him work to hill full potential. But I feel like he is one of the better Avatars out there.

(I think A-Dreamer as Anathema)

[Vaff]

aSeamus, aDreamer, and aPandora all have anathema. I haven't actually gotten much out of him yet. He's a big target, and like you said, he dies fast if left out in the open.

That being said, he can potentially ruin a living crews day. A Belle can move up and lure him into a good range and bam, tons of morale and wp checks. Even if the other crew is non-living, he still has anathema and giant fists to fall back on. I think tagged teamed with Molly he'll be a force to be reckoned with.

[DeleteAccount]

Well, even if he becomes easier to take down than his normal form, the great strength I see in both Seamus and Kirai avatar is that both become brawlers in the late game where that extra omph can do quite a lot, so in that sense, I still feel we came out ahead. I do feel Seamus is a bit pillow fisted though with a 3/4/5 damage, though I suppose ignoring armour comes into it and with his self buff he becomes very accurate.

[Ratty]

Well, even if he becomes easier to take down than his normal form, the great strength I see in both Seamus and Kirai avatar is that both become brawlers in the late game where that extra omph can do quite a lot, so in that sense, I still feel we came out ahead. I do feel Seamus is a bit pillow fisted though with a 3/4/5 damage, though I suppose ignoring armour comes into it and with his self buff he becomes very accurate.

It depends... you are getting an extra attack from Wicked every time the enemy runs away. If you can get 2 or 3 models in combat with him and get them to run 2 or 3 times in a round you are going to do serious damage.

[dakrulz55]

well you could always hold someone hostage when they fail the terrifying by casting the paralize spell on em and dance around with them in your melee.

[Soundwave]

well you could always hold someone hostage when they fail the terrifying by casting the paralize spell on em and dance around with them in your melee.

If you manage to hit at least one with a disengaging strike (that doesn't kill the poor bugger, obviously) you should also stay safe.

[Sandwich]

It seems to me as though Avatar Seamus is a massive change in playstyle, which is actually really, really good for Seamus because it now forces your opponent to build versus two seperate armies.

It also seems that my insults towards Molly now go wholly unbased as she will become a very, very, very vital part of any Seamus list hoping to bring in his Avatar.

I can see now that she was built with Avatar Seamus in mind and not necessarily classic Seamus.

I'm curious as to how well the Dead Doxy will work with him.

And has anyone playtesting A.Seamus tried using Jack Daw, Molly and well, whatever else they'd fancy?

Does it not seem as though that may be brutally unbeatable??