Team Marcus

[poulpox]

Back on aMarcus for a bit more: my biggest issue with him is that I'm not sure when exactly it would be beneficial to take the Avatar.

I haven't tried aMarcus yet, but with his pulses I'm thinking he'd be particularly good when facing living models (howl-manifest-smell fear-dominance-roar kind of combo).

Also I think he could be useful on a terrain with lots of blocking LoS things, as Diving Attack is pretty good when LoS are all obstructed, so somewhere like city fight with elevations and houses in the way, no one could stay safe hiding behind such element.

My last thought was that he might be also worth taking when facing constructs, with his poison Chimeric Attack; facing models with Armour is always a pain, and poison is a great way to inflict extra 2Wds past armour.

[swingjunkie]

2nd Game last night against Zoraida...Marcus is now 1-0-1!

Strategy was Shared Pee-On-Things (Plant Evidence)

Me: Power Ritual & Kill Protege (Nekima)

Used: Jackalope, Cererbus, Shikome, Moleman, 2 Sulurids

Him: Assassinate & Grudge (Moleman)

Used: 3 Tots, Shaman, Nekima, 2 Desp Mercs, Voodoo Doll

I had 8 points by mid-way through turn 4. Unfortunately, he got so focused on assassinating Marcus that he did not start tagging things until turn 6, only getting 2 off of Plant Evidence. He also was unable to kill my Moleman, who sat WAY back in the very corner of the board, having taken 3 damage from voodoo doll poison.

Final score 8-4.

P.S.- Got off Alpha on Mature Nephlim. YAY!

[Rathnard]

So I'm still kicking around with Marcus. I considered bringing Lilith out for a game or two tomorrow but after packing the models I though for a bit, pulled out Lilith and put in Marcus & friends instead. It seems I just can't escape him. :smugpuppet1

Anyway, my last game with Marcus was vs a relatively new Collete player. It all went to hell in turn two, when Collete claimed initative and turned Marcus into a Mannequin.

This is my second game with Marcus vs Collete and honestly, it's a struggle. Between the Duet and Collete the best plan seems to be avoidance and guerilla tactics to pick off what I can, but then I'm at risk of giving them an easy go of their strategies/schemes.

Has anyone come up with any specific tricks for dealing with Collete's crew? Right now it seems like eeking out a win is a real challenge for poor Marcus.

EDIT: Rathnard doesn't Join Team Marcus, Team Marcus joins Rathnard...

Member #666 (Number of the Beast) would be great thanks.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Rathnard

[Tiny]

You cant cast disappearing act on master models.

[Fulgrima]

EDIT: Rathnard doesn't Join Team Marcus, Team Marcus joins Rathnard...

Member #666 (Number of the Beast) would be great thanks.

Erm ill edit it back to Rathnard joins Team Marcus no one is bigger than the team!!!

All the same welcome aboard

Edited September 25, 2011 by Fulgrima

[Rathnard]

You cant cast disappearing act on master models.

...and now I feel like a dope. Well at least I learned something.

Erm ill edit it back to Rathnard joins Team Marcus no one is bigger than the team!!!

All the same welcome aboard

Either way. Glad to be part of the team. :smugpuppet1

[dgraz]

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.....or the one.

[hippodruid]

Hell, yes, I want my first post to be me joining Team Marcus! Screw introduction threads!

[Fulgrima]

Hell, yes, I want my first post to be me joining Team Marcus! Screw introduction threads!

This is the best place for a first post we are gentle and loving

[ukrocky]

This is the best place for a first post we are gentle and loving

Yet robust and manly at the same time.

[Nephalumps]

This is my second game with Marcus vs Colette and honestly, it's a struggle. Between the Duet and Colette the best plan seems to be avoidance and guerilla tactics to pick off what I can, but then I'm at risk of giving them an easy go of their strategies/schemes.

Has anyone come up with any specific tricks for dealing with Colette's crew? Right now it seems like eeking out a win is a real challenge for poor Marcus.

I think this is just a straight up difficult fight for Marcus. Colette's crew is, in a lot of ways, like Marcus' crew: fast, maneuverable, and tricky. Plus, she solid damage output (Doves are sick!) and a great set of "last bid for victory" abilities with her "Show Must Go On" <sic?> ability and Cassandra. Plus, its also deceptively durable, with lots of for them, for their opponents, and lots of soulstone users with plenty of soulstones to fuel it.

Its a really dense crew (or at least, it has been when I've dealt with it,) so I think if you can focus fire on one component and take it out, you can start to unravel the crew. Unfortunately, with how fast they are (and with being unable to charge the Duet,) its hard to hit them before they hit you.

I tried playing cagey in my last game v. Colette, and that didn't work out so well. That crew is fast enough to hunt you down if they need to, and all that ended up happening was that my crew ended up being softened up before the clash, which didn't help at all.

I don't know what a good plan is vs. Colette (though I'm sure I'll get another chance sometime soon,) but I think being more aggressive is important. I don't think you can rely on winning via scenarios and schemes vs. Colette (her crew is just too good at that,) so I think you need to cause as much damage as possible, and hope that cripples their ability to pull out the "W" late game. How exactly one does that, I'm still figuring out.

Speaking of crew troubles, I had my first run in with Kirai over the weekend and, oh my, that was unpleasant! I made some fairly significant tactical errors (I should have gotten Marcus stuck in ASAP,) and my crew wasn't well constructed to fight a spirit horde, so those things I can improve.

However, I'm also thinking this is a good indicator that "all Beast" Marcus has some significant limitations. Without more magical weapons/spells, I can't imagine how you're supposed to chew through that many spirit wounds before you get overrun.

Do other Arcanist assets help in this kind of matchup? The Silent One and Snow Storm can kick out attack spells, and neither one is shabby versus non-spirits either (Snow Storm especially; I'm really considering adding her/it.)

Also, unrelated to anti-spirit "tech": what does everyone like to take in the 4-5 SS bracket? For Marcus, the 3 SS bracket is loaded with solid choices, and the 7+ SS bracket is equally crowded, but for 4-5 SS, it looks like its...Silurids. And they've done great by me! But, they also have some really crappy matchups (Wp check heavy crews, Constructs, Nightmares, Spirits, anything with Armor,) so I'm trying to expand my options in that SS cost bracket.

Also also, I would like to be added to the Team Marcus roster. I originally figured I'd dabble around with Marcus (started with Lilith,) but he's so interesting that I find I'm running him every chance I can! So many options.

[Rathnard]

So I had a rematch against my collete opponent tonight, and while I went much better than last time, I still couldn't pull off a win.

So it was a 25SS game;

My crew (Reconnoiter, Bodyguard, Frame for Murder - Von Schill);

Marcus

Jackalope

Von Schill

3 Night Terrors

Moleman

Opponent's Crew (Slaughter, Bodyguard, Sabotage)

Colette

Cassandra

2 Corphee

It was the same crew I faced last week with the same schemes. She's pretty happy sticking to those two schemes so there's not much I can do about that.

I was planning to play a hit & run style of game, but Collete's crew seemed to fast for that. Over the course of the game it turned into a bit of a grind, with Von Schill being taken to the other side of the board by Collete (disappearing act) and Marcus needing to rescue him before he got mauled. In the end Von Schill was finally taken down and Marcus managed to escape with the skin of his teeth, until Cassandra used her post-game activation to kill him off.

In the end, I killed two summoned doves and took Collete down a few wounds, in exchange for losing Marcus and Von Schill.

On reflection I maybe should have swapped the Jackalope, Moleman and two Night Terrors for a Shikome, and just gone for the jugular. It was an uphill battle trying to take on Collete, Cass and the Duet with just Marcus and Von Schill, and the issue here is clearly in the damage-dealing department. I might have needed models for Reconnoiter but I think I needed to shut down the Collete crew even more.

And suggestions for future Marcus vs Collete showdowns? Should I be taking another approach, or using different minions? I'm really finding this to be an incredibly tough matchup.

On an unrelated note, (and without giving away spoliers), how awesome is the Marcus background in Twisting Fates?! I gotta say, I was totally blindsided by the links they introduced between him and certain other individuals. :smugpuppet1

[Rathnard]

Its a really dense crew (or at least, it has been when I've dealt with it,) so I think if you can focus fire on one component and take it out, you can start to unravel the crew.

...

I don't know what a good plan is vs. Collete (though I'm sure I'll get another chance sometime soon,) but I think being more aggressive is important. I don't think you can rely on winning via scenarios and schemes vs. Collete (her crew is just too good at that,) so I think you need to cause as much damage as possible, and hope that cripples their ability to pull out the "W" late game. How exactly one does that, I'm still figuring out.

That seems to be what needs to happen. You can't out maneuver a Collete crew and to make the damage stick, you need to get past all the soulstones, flips and good Df values. You kind of need something that's fast enough to engage their crew, but can deal lots of high value attacks. The damage output seems to be less important - you just need to hit them and drain out their soulstones first. Only problem is - what kind of minion available to Marcus can do that?

However, I'm also thinking this is a good indicator that "all Beast" Marcus has some significant limitations.

Again, I've come to that conclusion too. All-beast crews tend to limit Marcus to Df-based melee damage only, but there are definitely times when you want to be dealing damage from a distance, pumping out more magical attacks or getting through an opponents defenses via Wp-based attacks (although Night Terrors/Shikome are very decent at the latter).

I've started taking Von Schill with Marcus. He's quick, Magnetic pulse gives him an answer to the Corphee and his freikorps armour protects him from the worst of the crews spell attacks. I've heard others (UKRocky?) who use Kaeris, although I've yet to take a hard look at her in comparison to Schill.

Thinking aloud, but what about Gunsmiths? At 6SS each they won't do as much damage as a Convict Gunslinger, but they're more resiliant and have a toolbox of abilities that would make them useful against a variety of targets. They'd pair nicely with a Malifaux Raptor too, since you can beast them out with it's enrage trigger and allow them to use The Hard Way for additional flips.

Specifically in terms of spirits, I've found that Marcus's melee stick (which is a magical weapon) makes him pretty decent at picking apart enemy spirits.

I actually consider Silurid a 15SS model, since if I use them, I never take less than three. As for 4-5SS models, I'm still trying to figure out what would work for that kind of slot. There's really nothing that sticks out, so I usually wind up rejigging my crew to fit in a cheaper or more expensive minion.

[Nephalumps]

That seems to be what needs to happen. You can't out maneuver a Colette crew and to make the damage stick, you need to get past all the soulstones, flips and good Df values. You kind of need something that's fast enough to engage their crew, but can deal lots of high value attacks. The damage output seems to be less important - you just need to hit them and drain out their soulstones first. Only problem is - what kind of minion available to Marcus can do that?

I'm thinking the Shikome is the best bet here - with Nimble, you can either move, charge, and then Fast attack your Prey, or if its the Duet you can triple walk and still get an attack thanks to Fast. Plus, with Prey bonuses you're at least relatively even on your hitting and damage, and you can try for Poison triggers to layer up more damage/drain more SS.

EDIT: Plus, with Wicked your parting strikes are threatening, and Prey bonuses combined with Paired give the Shikome a decent shot at hitting the slippery Duet.

You can also try comboing that with Hunting Partner on something like a Cerberus: with Three Headed, he can Leap then double walk, and still get three attacks against his Prey. No Poison, but the minimum damage on the Bite is high enough to cause some legit damage if he can sneak a few in. The new Blessed of December can pull of something similar, though I'm not sold on that minion choice with Marcus yet.

Alternatively, you can try and move them closer to you before you go in for the kill. Snow Storm can push them up to 4" closer to your forces (though it'll be tricky to run into a situation where your models won't be shoved back as well,) and the Mechanical Rider can Drag 'em closer (though this requires hitting with a high ram, so its totally hand dependent.)

For models you can actually charge, the "standbys" like Silurids work well enough, as they can kick out a lot of attacks. However, for them to work at all against Cassandra, you need to activate them before she can put up her Southern Charm; if she gets that up, they're not doing much to her Df with a on attacks.

Definitely a rough matchup, no matter how you slice it.

Again, I've come to that conclusion too. All-beast crews tend to limit Marcus to Df-based melee damage only, but there are definitely times when you want to be dealing damage from a distance, pumping out more magical attacks or getting through an opponents defenses via Wp-based attacks (although Night Terrors/Shikome are very decent at the latter).

I've started taking Von Schill with Marcus. He's quick, Magnetic pulse gives him an answer to the Corphee and his freikorps armour protects him from the worst of the crews spell attacks. I've heard others (UKRocky?) who use Kaeris, although I've yet to take a hard look at her in comparison to Schill.

I've fought against Von Schill, and I definitely appreciate how potent he is as a "hit and run" model. I've also fought against a crew containing Kaeris, and she's pretty potent as well, though for different reasons. Kicking out Flame Walls is a PITA for your opponent, and she can manage some great ranged damage with Ignite combo'd with Immolate.

I think its a matter of personal preference, though Kaeris also allows you to take M&SU Assets if you bring her along, whereas Von Schill locks you out of any other special forces or mercenaries that aren't Freikorps.

I'm gonna give Kaeris a spin here soon, especially since her model is coming out soon (finally!)

Thinking aloud, but what about Gunsmiths? At 6SS each they won't do as much damage as a Convict Gunslinger, but they're more resiliant and have a toolbox of abilities that would make them useful against a variety of targets. They'd pair nicely with a Malifaux Raptor too, since you can beast them out with it's enrage trigger and allow them to use The Hard Way for additional flips.

I'm a big fan of Gunsmiths, at least in theory. I really like how flexible their abilities are, and the fact that they can easily get a triple to attacks (with a trigger that bumps up their attack damage,) definitely makes them compelling.

Since he isn't as reliant on triggers for shenanigans, or Rapid Fire for threatening damage, I feel like the Gunsmith will be a bit less of a temptation/drain on control cards than the Convict Gunslinger.

Specifically in terms of spirits, I've found that Marcus's melee stick (which is a magical weapon) makes him pretty decent at picking apart enemy spirits.

Absolutely. With him juiced up for combat, he can take enemy Spirits apart just as well as anything else. My biggest mistake last game definitely was not getting him stuck in earlier (I could have had him bashing as early as turn 2,) because without his equalizing damage output, I couldn't keep up.

It was definitely a silly move on my part, because I didn't have any schemes/strategies requiring me to keep Marcus safe, and he was absolutely my most powerful tool against her crew.

I actually consider Silurid a 15SS model, since if I use them, I never take less than three. As for 4-5SS models, I'm still trying to figure out what would work for that kind of slot. There's really nothing that sticks out, so I usually wind up rejigging my crew to fit in a cheaper or more expensive minion.

I have the exact same experiences with Silurids - its either 15 SS or nothing! I've tried a pair before, but that doesn't work so well; its difficult to string them out far enough to avoid them suffering wounds at the end of the turn, and they're so fragile that its usually not too long before you have just one left and he slowly dries out.

3 Silurids helps with both of those issues, but that ends up being effectively one 15 SS choice and they're still relatively squishy, so its only a matter of time before you're left with one that's slowly bleeding out. That, combined with their weaknesses has me shopping around for other options in their points bracket, but like you I'm coming up short on ideas that make me feel warm and fuzzy.

The only direct cost swap that I can think of right away is the Hoarcat Pride, and it suffers the same problem as all the Book 1 beasts: squishy as hell, and that problem is multiplied by the fact that it shares the Cerberus' weakness of becoming a lot less threatening once its taken a hit or two.

I'd actually love a decent "midline" option for Marcus, as his choices seem to be either cheap, "weenie" models (3-4 SS,) or big models (which have their own issues in a lot of cases.)

I'd kill for some Young Nephalim.

Edited September 26, 2011 by Nephalumps

[poulpox]

Have you guys thought of Taelor? Great vs armor, spirits and constructs, she is slow but mean! Running Nicodem has somehow similar issues as Marcus when facing models with Immune to influence or spirits or constructs. After having been suggested Taelor, I really think she could make a good addition to Marcus in those instances.

[Nephalumps]

Have you guys thought of Taelor? Great vs armor, spirits and constructs, she is slow but mean! Running Nicodem has somehow similar issues as Marcus when facing models with Immune to influence or spirits or constructs. After having been suggested Taelor, I really think she could make a good addition to Marcus in those instances.

I actually just thought of Taelor this morning.

I bought her and Misaki back when I was starting out, and I just bought "purdy models" without really understanding what the models did.

Turns out, both of them have magical weapons! Taelor is definitely the tougher/nastier of the two, but Misaki isn't exactly a scrub either. I'll definitely be keeping both of those options in mind as well, if Kirai continues to be a roadblock.

[dgraz]

Alright, I can't take it anymore and I need help. My main opponent plays Seamus....and he's good. He just shuts me down. Undead Psychosis against an all-melee crew is brutal...and he can cast it up to 3 times a turn affecting 3 to 9 models depending on spacing.

I know all the standard arguments, I've tried them and they just don't work against a reasonably proficient player.

• Don't bunch up. By turn 3 you have very little choice. If you don't bunch up some then you're just allowing the belles and what not to proceed with strats and schemes unmolested. With HTW, if you don't gang them, they don't go down. So you're bunching whether you like it or not.
  
• Use Howl. if Seamus doesn't go first. Or Marcus has to go first and you lose one of his AP every turn for a 8" and a net of +1 WP (thanks to 'Trail of Fear', (0) AP, 12":aura) so you're looking at WP 5 or 6 against a CA 7 master....good luck.
  
• Seamus isn't doing anything else. He doesn't need to. His crew, which I have to move away from, can focus on his objectives with relative impunity.
  
• Take Seamus out. Good luck. If you happen to have something that isn't affected by Undead Psychosis (since a good Seamus player will always make sure there is an undead model close to him) you need to get past his Terrifying (at -2 WP if Seamus has activated) then do 12 wounds against HTW2 and ss usage that heals whenever something nearby dies.
  
• Focus on you're own strats and schemes. So the best I can hope for is a draw? In order to win, you can't just ignore the Seamus crew. You have to prevent them from completing something.
  
• Put in some firepower. Add a slinger or a gunsmith. Don't forget that we're talking about an intelligent player that understands risk assessment. That ranged guy is going to be priority one. So while Seamus is still doing Undead Psychosis to shut down most of your crew, the belles will be luring your gun to his doom....and you can only prevent it so many times against a CA 8. So be reduntant? Take multiple guns? Why play Marcus then? Take Rasputina and blow $$$$$$$$ up! Or just go back to playing Guild!
  
• Avatar. Don't get me started.
  

Am I missing something? Is Seamus (a good Seamus) just a virtually impossible match-up? I'm really trying to make Marcus work and he works great in many situations but I just can't break Seamus.

Any good thoughts?

[Wormstrum]

Fight fire with fire. Or in this case undead with undead. Field Shikomes and Night Terrors against Seamus. They're both spirits which makes them immune to terrifying. Coupled with their mobility they become a real threat for Seamus and his crew.

Also, constructs like the Coryphees and Steamborg are immune to terrifying as well.

You might also consider building a "shooty" Marcus list. Field things like Razorspine Rattlers, Myranda, Snowstorm, Silent Ones,etc.

The wonderful thing about Marcus is how adaptive his lists can be. Just have to take advantage of his hiring options.

[dgraz]

That's it? over 24 hrs and all we have is Wormstrum? Seamus is that bad ass? no real answers for him?

at least it isn't just me.

Night Terrors are cool, but they have to bunch up to use their mobility (6" flock together) and that's prime target for Undead Psychosis. At least they can hide well since they fly and are spirits.

Shikome are the same for mobility and hiding, but are prime targets for lure and Undead Psychosis once they are exposed. I also don't care for the fact that they must choose a prey, but for what they can do to that prey, I guess it's a fair trade.

I also totally forgot that Spirits are immune to Morale Duels.

So

Marcus

Jackalope 1ss [cuz I love him]

x2 Shikome (with Prey) 16ss

Myranda (a potential 3rd Shikome without Prey) 7ss

X3 Night Terror 9ss

that's 33 giving a 6ss pool.

Thanks Worm, that actually doesn't look bad.....I'll give it a shot.

Now, I like Grudge as a scheme, since it's something that a swarm of silurids (and really, most things in a Marcus list) should be able to easily do. Do you think I should select Seamus as the prey for the shikomes or should they target something else( ie; the Grudge target), maybe 2 different targets. Once Myranda transforms, she could join in as a Hunting Partner.

[Wormstrum]

I would probably send the shikomes straight for Seamus. Once he's stuck in melee with them he really doesn't have many answers to deal with it. No magical weapons, no offensive spells that can be used in melee.

His best options are to sit in melee and hope for instant kill triggers on his bag o tools, or he can try and undead psychosis and try to get a belle close enough.

Even if the shikomes do get pushed away from psychosis they can always just start casting guarantee fate and then run away from seamus. If both shikomes can land it that's an automatic 4wd at the end of each turn.

Meanwhile, marcus and the rest of your crew can be picking off seamus' minions while he has to deal with the 2 shikomes.

[Adran]

Handling the Seamus List

One possible way is to hide a Cerberus behind something and save a leap card. Then, when he come to the objectives the Cerberus should easily eat up belles.

High weak damage is a very good answer to hard to wound.

Don't clump models too much, it shouldn't be too hard to restrict each cast of Undead psychosis to effect only one or two models. I know you've said you've done that, but its still good advice.

Coryphee duet will also happily ignore Undead psychosis as they can strike without ending the movement. And also easily strike from hiding to hiding.

Several beasts have things like scout, Flight or just a high movement which allows them to strike from beyond line of sight. You migth well find that for the next action you are driven away, but if you can wipe out two models every other turn, seamus will be suffering the losses.

VP restrictions. Yes, he might have a juggernaut that you can't stop. but it can only do one or two things a turn. If he has go to light dynamite, or destroy eveidence, it will take a large amount of his actions just in the movement. A few road blocks at the right place will stop him achieving his aim without dealing with them.

Seamus only gets to activae once a turn. A small road block in place at the beginnign of the turn, and then after Seamus has dealt with that, bring in another one. Jackolopes can be great at this. They are pretty tough to kill for most minions, and are very easily replaced.

Graverobber.

bring one along who can take the corpse counters. If he can't replace his losses, then they matter much more.

[ukrocky]

@dgraz - my excuse for not replying is I have no internet and ain't typing long,messages on my phone. In addition I've never, ever struggled against a seams crew, I find they have too few ways to deal damage and I tend to run kaeris/gunsmith/shikome vs him

[Nephalumps]

@dgraz - Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of experience vs Seamus. The one person in our gaming group that loves to run him also has "faction ADHD," and he only just now cycled back around to him (due to Seamus' forthcoming Avatar...*shudder*.)

However, if you're not above taking a "spite model" (and really, isn't the reason we play these games to spite others? ) Von Schill may be worth considering.

He's a tough SoB in general, Hard Ass helps equal out Seamus' Terror antics, and with his Undead Knowledge he can pretty reliably pick off a Belle a turn.

Von Schill will have a pretty big bulls-eye on him, but between his mobility (Nimble and Reposition), Stubborn, Soulstones, and Friekorps Armor, I'd think he'd be a pain for Seamus' crew to take down, if you're able to pressure the rest of the crew.

Combine Von Schill mobile sniping with the Shikome blitz, and Seamus will definitely have his hands full. That's mostly theory on my part, but I've been on receiving end of Von Schill's antics, and he's definitely a nasty dude, so I think the theory is sound.

EDIT: Another thought - what about the Mechanical Rider? With Immune to Influence, it's safe against most of Seamus' crew's nastier effects, it can output a good amount of damage, its fast (especially in the first two turns with Nimble,) and its moderately durable.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Nephalumps

[dgraz]

Now we're talking. Thanks for the replies.

One thing I guess I should have mentioned, I'm kind've a purist, or fluffy, or whatever you want to call it. I'd like to get Marcus to work as intended, as the Beast Master. Going out of faction to hire beasts is one thing, but hiring someone like Von Schill (even though I do have him and he is the Undead killer) is not something I'm willing to do. I have tried the Rider and even the SS Miner...but again, it galls me to use non-beasts with the Beast Master. I'm convinced that all crews have a chance against any other crew, I just haven't found an answer yet. I'm certainly not incapable of defeating Seamus, I do it with Perdita all the time.....just can't beat him with Marcus.

Handling the Seamus List

One possible way is to hide a Cerberus behind something and save a leap card. Then, when he come to the objectives the Cerberus should easily eat up belles.

High weak damage is a very good answer to hard to wound.

I love the Cerberus, I have one in an awesome snow leopard theme. It's pretty fragile and with 4 Wounds it becomes garbage. Your move here is the move, but its a one-shot deal and it's not worth throwing an 8 ss model to take a 4ss model.

Don't clump models too much, it shouldn't be too hard to restrict each cast of Undead psychosis to effect only one or two models. I know you've said you've done that, but its still good advice.

It's not hard to restrict one cast, but up to 3 times a turn (once he's in a fair position) and possibly affecting 2 or more models per cast is my issue. with an unbeatable cast # (cheating with an 11+ is all he needs) its unstoppable.

VP restrictions. Yes, he might have a juggernaut that you can't stop. but it can only do one or two things a turn. If he has go to light dynamite, or destroy eveidence, it will take a large amount of his actions just in the movement. A few road blocks at the right place will stop him achieving his aim without dealing with them.

Extremely true. On the other side though...his crew is actually really fast and if he takes Molly, it's arguably the fastest crew in the game. Then, if I have to take things like Shikome / Myranda / Cerberus...he is seriously out-activating me with 4ss Belles.

It's usually here where I run into my greatest problems. In order to prevent just one Belle or Punk Zombie or whatever from completing a strat by killing it, I normally have to either (A) gang up on it....Undead Psychosis or, ( expose a high cost model to the lure/lure/ punk zombie flurry, or © use a cheap model to delay for a turn....creating possibly a worse problem next turn.

Graverobber.

bring one along who can take the corpse counters. If he can't replace his losses, then they matter much more.

Fortunately, this is something I never really have to worry about. Seamus is not really a summoner and my regular opponent knows this. Most games, the counters just lie on the board unused.

EDIT: After re-reading my post, it seems I'm quite the negative-nelly. Sorry about that. I will keep trying, but I think I'm getting to the point where I'm just too discouraged.

[Nephalumps]

Now we're talking. Thanks for the replies.

One thing I guess I should have mentioned, I'm kind've a purist, or fluffy, or whatever you want to call it. I'd like to get Marcus to work as intended, as the Beast Master. Going out of faction to hire beasts is one thing, but hiring someone like Von Schill (even though I do have him and he is the Undead killer) is not something I'm willing to do. I have tried the Rider and even the SS Miner...but again, it galls me to use non-beasts with the Beast Master. I'm convinced that all crews have a chance against any other crew, I just haven't found an answer yet. I'm certainly not incapable of defeating Seamus, I do it with Perdita all the time.....just can't beat him with Marcus.

Thanks for clarifying. After re-reading some of your earlier posts and exchanges, I definitely got the vibe that you're trying to play a "pure" Marcus list. I definitely respect that - it can be a lot more enlightening and interesting to run a list that way.

For what its worth, I think "pure Beast" vs. Rezzers in general is rough. Beasts usually aren't that durable, so getting tied down in an extended melee scrum (which is inevitable with Rezzers) is rough. And, unfortunately, Wyrd hasn't graced Marcus with any "ranged" beasts yet, so you're also dealing with the complication of having a relatively one dimensional approach.

However, I don't think it is impossible. In the case of Seamus, it'll be rough, and maybe a little luck dependent, but I think the Shikome/Night Terror/Myranda list you had posted earlier will give you a solid chance at it.

Against Seamus, you can't outlast his list - as you've mentioned before, he's tossing so many high Wp check spells at you (Ca 7/8, with multiple models being affected in some cases,) that even the highest Wp models will eventually succumb.

My gut reaction is therefore to blitz the list down before you get overwhelmed with Wp checks. Unfortunately, Belles are stupid hard to kill for their SS cost, and Seamus is one of the most durable Masters in the game.

But with the previously posted list, I think you have a shot. Dual Shikomes can, if not kill Seamus, drain his Control Hands and SS cache. If you can get Marcus in there with Hunting Partner, you'll have another powerful attacker dumping damage into him. Plus, the Shikome's Poison trigger helps to offset the damage reduction from Hard to Wound, and thankfully Seamus' Df isn't too high.

Meanwhile, you have the Night Terrors still around for objective grabbing, so you don't have to completely forego VPs for this plan. Myranda can turn into whatever you need, and even though a 3rd Shikome may be a bit much, if Seamus doesn't die with three Single Minded Shikome's pounding on him, it wasn't meant to be.

I certainly wish you the best of luck!

I admire your dogged persistence; I ran into a nasty Kirai crew, and I'm already abandoning the "pure Beast" Marcus configuration for models that'll make that fight a little less of an eternal grind.