Easy or to easy?

[Brence]

Well listening to Eric on the D6 Gen. Podcast (always a refined media for gaming moments) I was actually wondering. They where adressing the point where the game would be more accesible and more simplistic.

I do wonder though how much depth there actually is in the game. Simple mechanics are good and well, however is the game itself as "Simple" or does it still have the same level of depth as say Malifaux on a different scale/simplified mechanics?

Take for instance Claustrophobia which is derived from Helldorado. Its a simplified rules set is unlike Helldorado but does put Helldorados miniature game and setting into a Boardgame. It does have depth of play and in a way makes players think and strategize outside of the game itself ("I want to play you again in scenario X with Humans cause I got an idea how to...").

Hope we get a simple elegant rules set with low entry level but great depth if you want to get stuck in.

Anyone have any ideas on the subject? Or maybe a little hint or background from our glorious designers or those "in the know"?

[ThePandaDirector]

Well I playtested the game so am as you call "in the know" and while I can't provide any actual information, I can say that the game has plenty of depth. It's not simple, just easy, and is similar to Malifaux in terms of the time it will take to master it. It's also unique, and if you try and play it like Malifaux - or any other game - you'll likely struggle. So just give in to the puppets and have fun kicking stuffing

[Brence]

Thats the kind of awnser I was hoping for, no details needed, dont want to pull anybodys strings (pun intended) to break NDA. Just wanted to hear on the facet of how much depth the game has from those who allready got some expirience in.

[Justin]

Chess is a lot simpler than Malifaux, rules wise. But unless your opponent is letting you win, it's equally or more strategic.

Not saying that applies to puppet wars: just simplicity. I'll let p-wars speak for itself.

[karn987]

Seconded. I could go into a speech about it, but I think the best thing to do is let the game speak for it's self. You will see soon enough and hopefully we will not disappoint.

[cerealkiller195]

Simple has a lot of meanings actually, a lot of players find malifaux "complex" because they are still getting used to the system. It also depends how much "gaming background" you have.

It IS a board game first and foremost, like most board games they do not reach the complexity of the harder to master miniature games. That doesn't mean it's on a child's level per se, it is just a different level in general. Someone said above that chess is one of the most simple games out there, but it is also tactically complex.

I believe puppet wars was made to open up the market while being a "beer and pretzels game" that can be played faster than a game of malifaux. I remember hearing that though the individual pawns do not have a wall of text as is the standard in malifaux. They have certain key abilities that maintain synergy in your "army" and add a level of detail.

[odinsgrandson]

Chess is a sort of zen for games. The rules are extremely simple, but if you start getting into the game, the meta goes on forever.

It is tough to pull off that kind of zen, it really is. For most games, the goal is to have a rules set where every individual rule adds to the strategy. A lot of games end up having rules that are more complex than their strategy, and the goal is to have a rules set that is simpler than the strategy needed.

From Malifaux, we can tell that Wyrd knows how to make a complex set of rules that add to the strategy. Let's see what they can do with a simpler set.

[Justin]

Yeah, as Eric has mentioned in several podcasts: list building is incredibly key. Puppets have lots of synergies/combos that make a certain list work or not. And although puppets of a similar suit may be more efficient together (at times) you can use any Puppet with any other Puppet in an army. Compare this to Magic where maybe a mono red deck is more efficient because you have all mountains but you have the option of splashing in whatever color you like.

(Don't look for any teasers here, haven't said anything Eric hasn't, and won't)

But list building alone adds its own complexity/replay value without murking up the mechanics of the game.

Also, I believe it's no coincidence they have Puppets called Pawns. I think sort of gives you an idea of what they were shooting for on the simplicity versus depth of play scale.

[Brence]

Someone referred to the "Meta game" which as I think of it is actually what I was meaning to ask, how much of the Meta Game will it have? Play it, stow it away for a next time and your done or will it be advanced enough to keep dreaming up new lists and synergies to play out. From what I am hearing the system is simple yet the depth that can be put into it (can instead of must, which I believe is the most difference between it and Malifaux etc.) seems to be thick when hearing about the different synergies within lists etc.

[ThePandaDirector]

As Eric has stated there are no factions in Puppet Wars. Now just think of how many miniatures are in the Malifaux range and do the maths.

I think I have the right avatar to state "dream on" =]

[Justin]

Someone referred to the "Meta game" which as I think of it is actually what I was meaning to ask, how much of the Meta Game will it have? Play it, stow it away for a next time and your done or will it be advanced enough to keep dreaming up new lists and synergies to play out. From what I am hearing the system is simple yet the depth that can be put into it (can instead of must, which I believe is the most difference between it and Malifaux etc.) seems to be thick when hearing about the different synergies within lists etc.

Obviously we think we hit that particular rhythm nicely. We'll just have to see what you guys think when it comes out.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Justin

[Ratty]

I think it has a lot in common with Bloodbowl, Halfway between a board Game and a Wargame. Simple and easy to learn rule system, but plenty of room for tactics and strategy when playing.

[karn987]

I think it has a lot in common with Bloodbowl, Halfway between a board Game and a Wargame. Simple and easy to learn rule system, but plenty of room for tactics and strategy when playing.

Thats probably the best way to put it!

[sakurazuka38]

I think it has a lot in common with Bloodbowl, Halfway between a board Game and a Wargame. Simple and easy to learn rule system, but plenty of room for tactics and strategy when playing.

It would be fantastic!!!

I imagine puppet war would be like the "okko" game (from the comic of the same name) : http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29602/okko-era-of-the-asagiri

The game is simple, the characters have special powers (but not a lot to learn) you can trigger with the good symbol (but on dice!), the floor tiles are various...

But i hope puppet war would be better because i'm not fond of this game!

[rudders]

I can't wait to get my hands on it and agree with the comments above about gameplay - I quite fancy the idea of trying to do a league with it in due course - it would be nice if there was a way to link games in a similar style to Bloodbowl leagues/tournies but don't really have any thoughts at the moment on how that could be achieved.

[osoi]

I think it has a lot in common with Bloodbowl, Halfway between a board Game and a Wargame. Simple and easy to learn rule system, but plenty of room for tactics and strategy when playing.

Thats probably the best way to put it!

Thats exactly how I would describe it too and since we have such a large Bloodbowl league locally I am hoping I should be able to entice more than a few players to play.

The lack of distinct faction lines makes list building an art form but there will not be an uber list that will rule them all. So pleanty of depth and replayablity plus hilarity. Really just reiterating what others have already said.