RotatingPanda Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 1. I read somewhere that anything that is Terrifying ignores Harmless. Is this true? Page reference would be super. 2. If the above is true, do things that are Terrifying also ignore Pitiful? If true, page reference would be super. 3. Does the FAQ on the website work? I cannot access it or search it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 21, 2011 Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 (edited) 1. Page 116 under Harmless 2. I think this is right but it seems pitiful is missing from the new rule book, I'll dig out book 2. edit: hmmm, not there eaither - it may be on a character's page in book2 (Kirai?) Here's a thread which confirms it, but I think it was by Ratty pre-Rules Marshall 3. I don't think it's ever been used Edited June 21, 2011 by magicpockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotatingPanda Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Thanks a lot, Magicpockets. Unfortunate that the FAQ doesn't work. So, there's no definitive ruling on Terrifying vs. Pitiful yet? I really want to know if Seamus can shoot Kirai in her frustrating face or not without the WP test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 So, there's no definitive ruling on Terrifying vs. Pitiful yet? Where is it even hinted that Terrifying models are able to ignore Pitiful? I don't see it anywhere in the rules, which, sorry to say, clearly means they cannot do it.. "Can my model A do X?" "Does it say model A can do X in the rules?" "No" "Then model A cannot do X." .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Where is it even hinted that Terrifying models are able to ignore Pitiful? http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17934 Click the link before ranting at a newbie like that ffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 (edited) http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17934 Click the link before ranting at a newbie like that ffs. Didn't intend it to sound like a rant.. Also not sure how I'm supposed to follow a link before it's been posted..? O_o I'm fairly certain that the thread was prior to Ratty becoming a Marshal and just a slight error on his part either way.. Edit: Not really an error even.. Just a little unspecific as that thread is about both Harmless and Pitiful.. Edited June 22, 2011 by Wodschow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karn987 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17934 Click the link before ranting at a newbie like that ffs. Yeah MP, that is before he became a Marshal and there is no answer to this question in it. In fact it really has no relevance to this question. Also how is he suppose to click the link before he posts? @Rotating Panda: Wodschow is absolutely right. Because the rules do not state anything about it, there is no interaction between these abilities. So there is no need for a ruling at all as the rules simply have nothing out of the normal that happens when Terrifying interacts with Pitiful. (Ie you must still deal with Pitiful even if your Terrifying). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Also not sure how I'm supposed to follow a link before it's been posted..? O_o You may have missed it in my post then where it says "here's a thread..." - that's actually a link to the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wodschow Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 You may have missed it in my post then where it says "here's a thread..." - that's actually a link to the thread Yea, I missed that, most likely because edits don't show up in 'New Posts' and I don't usually read the same posts more than once.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicpockets Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Thanks a lot, Magicpockets. Unfortunate that the FAQ doesn't work. So, there's no definitive ruling on Terrifying vs. Pitiful yet? I really want to know if Seamus can shoot Kirai in her frustrating face or not without the WP test. Terrifying models still need to test for Pitiful. Seamus does need to make the Wp test before he can put a hole into Kirai. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jet Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Terrifying models still need to test for Pitiful. Seamus does need to make the Wp test before he can put a hole into Kirai. But it says on the thread that, as a terrifying unit, you don't have to perform a WP test to attack a pitiful unit if you are terrifying. This helps me out as I can't say how many times my Mature Nephilim has been about to crush Kirai to bits and then decided "nah, she's just too pitiful for me to be a bloodthirsty monster about it" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WEiRD sKeTCH Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 But it says on the thread that, as a terrifying unit, you don't have to perform a WP test to attack a pitiful unit if you are terrifying. This helps me out as I can't say how many times my Mature Nephilim has been about to crush Kirai to bits and then decided "nah, she's just too pitiful for me to be a bloodthirsty monster about it" As stated earlier in this thread, that was long before Ratty became a Rules Marshall and is not an official ruling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblyn13 Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 1. I read somewhere that anything that is Terrifying ignores Harmless. Is this true? Page reference would be super. 2. If the above is true, do things that are Terrifying also ignore Pitiful? If true, page reference would be super. 3. Does the FAQ on the website work? I cannot access it or search it. 1) As was mentioned before, pg 116 in the rules manual, Harmless itself states that models with Ruthless and Terrifying ignore this ability. 2) Pitiful is limited to Just Kirai and Molly at this time so it would not be listed under the "Common Abilities" section as its not common. but it also does not state in the ability on either of them that it terrifying is ignored. 3) the FAQ part in the Navigation bar on the left is about how to use the Board itself, like how to post, etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Pitiful is not a simple duel like Harmless. Don't think of it as the Mature Nephilim having a change of heart when he sees a crying girl. It's Kirai exerting her will magically, which is why it's a Wp->Wp duel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotatingPanda Posted June 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Goblyn13: Thank you for clarifying what the FAQ search does! Ratty: Thank you for explaing, in detail, the difference in Harmless and Pitiful. That makes a lot more sense now although I still resent that Seamus can't just ice her...from my limited experience, Kirai is ridiculous enough without that little bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jet Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I had assumed it was an official ruling because the thread had been closed after that was put forth as the final result. Mayhap a board cleansing(lots of pros and cons)? (just wanted to explain my angle, not trying to be argumentative) I do understand, and look forward to something gaining the "Cruel" ability so that it can ignore "Pitiful" (like a Neverborn that is truly the stuff of nightmares...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Remember, Chompy DOES have a rule that makes him ignore Pitiful, and the Watcher has an ability that cancels the target's pitiful for the turn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jet Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 With the Watcher having that ability, could the opponent then activate Kirai, and re-activate Pitiful? Since it's technically not the same "Pitiful" (and without actually looking it up) I wonder.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 from my limited experience, Kirai is ridiculous enough without that little bonus. Really? I know Kirai is a strong Master, but I haven't had the experience that she is anywhere near as abusive as models like the Neverborn Masters Pandora and the Dreamer. I've looked through threads and haven't seen a general outcry about her. Is a Resser Master actually regarded as a model in need of serious fixing? Her cutting mechanic always makes me sweat trying to manage the amount of summoning of Ikiryo I do. I know that combined with Jack Daw she is very abusive, but I think that's more of an issue with Jack's Mechanics than hers. I'm genuinely interested as I love to study mechanics of rules systems and I'm curious as to whether my impressions are skewed by having her as one of my primary masters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratty Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Really? I know Kirai is a strong Master, but I haven't had the experience that she is anywhere near as abusive as models like the Neverborn Masters Pandora and the Dreamer. I've looked through threads and haven't seen a general outcry about her. Is a Resser Master actually regarded as a model in need of serious fixing? Her cutting mechanic always makes me sweat trying to manage the amount of summoning of Ikiryo I do. I know that combined with Jack Daw she is very abusive, but I think that's more of an issue with Jack's Mechanics than hers. I'm genuinely interested as I love to study mechanics of rules systems and I'm curious as to whether my impressions are skewed by having her as one of my primary masters. She's very solid Master and can go against most crews on a good footing, but I don't think she's a hard counter to any in the way some of the other Masters are, eg Hamelin against gremlins. You normally gain and lose something in most match ups. Against casters, your fast and can get good melee models in contact with them, but all your spirits are taking full damage that can be painful if you make the slightest mistakes. And there are still crews you can have issues with, Viktoria's or Pandora can make a mess of her quite fast. I can normally win with her, but a lot of the time it's due to misdirection and gamesmanship more than inherent power, there's lots of times where I've played to scupper their VPs and then jumped on my Schemes at the end. It's rarely that I can get her to a situation where she just steamrollers the opponent, in the way Hamelin or Lilith can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotatingPanda Posted June 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 My initial exposure to Kirai was pretty horrifying. I was playing Lady J (starter set) and hadn't read about Kirai at length. My opponent had played a few games and read about her at length. So, in my first game, the Judge was killed on Turn 2, granting my opponent 4 VP from his schemes. Then, I focused all my firepower on the Shikome and Ikiryo, failed to kill them and saw both of them get healed to full before Turn 3. At that point, with 3 DM and Lady J versus Kirai, the Ikiryo, Shikome, Lost Love, some Seishin and a Gaki or two, I conceded. I am very inexperienced with Malifaux (played one full game and three partial games) and so far, my impression was a entire crew that takes half damage, has awesome mobility, can produce more models, can earn 4 VP really easily (through the Shikome and two schemes) and a Master that can come back if killed. I was discouraged to say the least and still don't feel I have an answer yet. I've also played the Dreamer who killed my Rasputina on Turn 2 and I feel pretty discouraged against that crew as well. I understand it's all learning and experience but so far, due to life complications, I haven't had much chance to play lately and I cannot afford new models. Also, I'm one of those pretentious guys that plays really thematic armies so I understand I'm choosing to handicap myself. Oh well. Love the game, love the fluff, will continue to play for a long time to come. /rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jet Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I don't think she's too powerful at all, just has some tough things going for her (especially with Lost Love on her side so she heals and gains spirit). Using Lilith and Nephilim to counter her is a really strong combo, since they have such strong melee attacks, though it's weakened significantly by "spirit", and the tots not really being able to get near them without running in fear away from most of her units. I'd say that, if anything, I'd like her to gain a couple of wounds so she can last longer, as the best strategy to deal with her I've found is to run in and hit her until she's dead, and then worry about her crew. I look forward to taking on Hamelin though so I can have a good comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmike Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I have only played against her but from what i have seen is she very good at outflanking you and she can take advantage of mistakes other players make very well. On that note when i see someone make a play mistake with her it has been easy to take great advantage of it and make their game much harder. I think she has a great list of masters she is very good against as well as masters that are very good against her( GO LEVI ) on that note i am so :offtopic: at this point and am not sure if there is any question left in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Jet Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Well, there's still the question of if someone uses activates a Watcher to get rid of Kirai's pitiful, is it possible for Kirai to activate and then re-activate it, since it's not the same "pitiful" as the one that was dispelled (thus making the Watcher's action kind of moot). It seems to me like she could, but then, I'm not an official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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